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RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 9:21:49 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: peepeegirl5
I counsel women who are in relationships with males where they both suffer from sexual corruption, (i.e. failure to recognize their true roles). I teach her the techniques that will bring their roles back into harmony with what the Goddess intends.
Blessings and intense sexual bliss to all women and males who recognize their true roles.
Domina Sancti

Yeah, I think I read that already this morning on another thread.  If so, then the same advice applies to you.  If you're not professionally trained and licensed, it may be best to keep your extensive wisdom and knowledge to yourself unless it is expressly stated that you are not a professional.  Apparently anyone can pass themselves off as a counselor.  It doesn't mean they are.........slave luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to peepeegirl5)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 9:26:12 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
Over the years alot of people have come to me for life advise. I have learned that quite often, the best advise I can give them, get professional help. To do otherwise is irresponsible.

Yes indeed.  I mean we have all (hopefully) acquired some helpful knowledge we can share with our friends and associates.  But to get into in-depth "counseling" with someone who truly needs help and not refer them on to a trained professional is not only irresponsible, it's wrong and dangerous.  It may make us feel good to feel needed and listened to, but it's not worth endangering someone........slave luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 9:42:47 AM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty
Right now, I consel women who are in relationships with drug addicts


quote:

Right now, I am waiting by my cell day and night for a call from a  woman I have been counceling, her husband is VERY abusive and is a drug addict on top of it; I have done all Ic an do


"Consel"ing (or "counceling)" anyone is a very delicate endeavor.  If this person is a family member or friend and is fully aware that you have no professional qualifications, that is fine, I suppose.  If, however, you are representing yourself as someone who is trained and capable of professional counseling, I would think you should stop that immediately and let this person get real professional help.  It may be very dramatic for you to feel like you are waiting by the cell, being her lifeline, a part of the action, so to speak.  If something happens to her, I would think you would bear no small responsibility because, by acting as her "consel"or in lieu of a real one, you are impeding her search for actual professional assistance.  It's not a game - advise her to seek help at the hands of someone who is trained to help her please............slave luci


Of course this is a delicate matter; I have worked with the local women's shelters an I have training, also, I KNOW about drug addicts, I was married to one. I take this VERY seriously. Why in the hell would I offer to do this for people that I don't know if I don't know what I was doing? Thats dangerious, not to mention I can be held legally liable. Having been through similar situations as the women I talk to are going through. I know my stuff, I keep up on things, I go to classes, I am even listed on our [the international non-profit] international site and on the local hotline; that is a LOT of responsibility. 

slaveluci just because you don't now how to handle a situation like this or others, does NOT mean that I don't or that others on these boards don't.

The person who trained me had been abused herself, she gives out my number to those she councils when she is out of town, I take that as a compliment. The person I am waiting to hear from is not the first woman I have gone through this with; every person is different, every situation unique.

_____________________________

http://slaverosebeauty.livejournal.com/

"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 9:59:55 AM   
tulipgoose


Posts: 112
Joined: 10/30/2004
Status: offline 		Well, I have a bit of an odd situation I was a part of. I was in an accident a few years ago, and was deeply in love at the time, was engaged in fact. After the accident my entire life turned around. The thing is, that the one I was engaged to had started off as a Daddy to me, which made it in some ways even more difficult for me.

He became abusive because of stress. From having to literally help me learn to walk again among a few other things, mainly him moving across the country in his last year of college to pick up a few part time jobs to care for me. He didn't even notice. It started with mild abuse in the form of neglect. When he would spank me he spanked too high, I hurt my tailbone in the accident I was in.... so this was NOT good! I kept telling him that I couldn't have him doing that for my own safety he'd say "Okay, sorry, I know" and next spanking he'd do it again.

We started getting in more and more fights, He would start talking in his sleep and wake up angry...... We would be driving in his truck and if we were arguing he would stop in the middle of the road, in the middle of traffic. I would try to get out while he was doing that sometimes, and then as I had one foot out the door of his truck he'd start driving again, and I'd be clinging to the door to get back in. Many more things happened....... but my last night with him....... after I had already ended it..... he forced me....... and I had to spend the next few weeks wondering if I was carrying his child or not......

The thing is.... I know it wasn't HIM...... I know it was a part of him that went wacko from an insane amount of stress that most people will never see the way we saw it. In that I have comfort. I step away from all of that knowing that I was strong enough to leave, with pride in that fact. We all have the ability to, and often doing so leads to more pain as I experienced that final day, but once it is over, it is over. Sometimes you need to move across the country to escape or to heal, sometimes to a new country, but in the end anyone can get away if they trust themself enough. Leaving gives a slave or sub or lil girl strength and power, something they may have felt they never had. It is in using that strength and power wisely which makes for the beginnings of a new life.

Tulip

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 10:34:37 AM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline 		this will not be a popular response, but i've always been of the belief that an Owner has the right to do whatever they wish to the one who belongs to them, including abuse. if there is even such a thing as abuse in M/s (many feel there is not, as one of the definitions of abuse..."improper use"...is not possible in M/s), then certainly a Master has the right to abuse his slave. all of the things Whiplash mentioned in Post #4 are things a Master has the full right to do, imo.

however i understand the reality is that not all slaves can bear or accept such treatment, and if these slaves find a way out of the relationship, they may have difficulty letting go and moving on. oftentimes they have been conditioned to such a degree that thriving in any other type of D/s or M/s relationship becomes next to impossible, no matter how bad they may wish to.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 10:39:36 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		This is where the difference in Ethics comes in.
Having the right to do something does not always make it the right thing to do.

It's not that we're saying the owner does not have the right to do things, we're making a judgement that some of those things we have the right to do are not th right thing to do as a human being.

This is not to say that my ethical base is the only one, but it is to say those who have an ethic that differes significantly enough from mine will not be invited to my family picnics, LOL.


(in reply to daddysprop247)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 10:41:54 AM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

This is where the difference in Ethics comes in.
Having the right to do something does not always make it the right thing to do.

It's not that we're saying the owner does not have the right to do things, we're making a judgement that some of those things we have the right to do are not th right thing to do as a human being.

This is not to say that my ethical base is the only one, but it is to say those who have an ethic that differes significantly enough from mine will not be invited to my family picnics, LOL.




Archer, you're correct...having the right to do something does not make it the right (or ethical) thing to do. but as we know a Master need not be ethical in order to be a Master or even a good Master. however he may need to be ethical in order to be the right (successful) Master for a particular slave.

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 10:58:13 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I dunno prop. you're so well trained to just take it from people, what's most abusive for you might be ordering you to be a dominant female to everyone all the time :)

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to daddysprop247)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 11:09:32 AM   
peepeegirl5


Posts: 214
Joined: 3/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: peepeegirl5
I counsel women who are in relationships with males where they both suffer from sexual corruption, (i.e. failure to recognize their true roles). I teach her the techniques that will bring their roles back into harmony with what the Goddess intends.
Blessings and intense sexual bliss to all women and males who recognize their true roles.
Domina Sancti

Yeah, I think I read that already this morning on another thread.  If so, then the same advice applies to you.  If you're not professionally trained and licensed, it may be best to keep your extensive wisdom and knowledge to yourself unless it is expressly stated that you are not a professional.  Apparently anyone can pass themselves off as a counselor.  It doesn't mean they are.........slave luci


hehehhehe...

I've never been accused of being a professional yet.

And yet I have a 100% success rate.


_____________________________

"If we value so highly the dignity of life, how can we not also value the dignity of death? No death may be called futile." - Yukio Mishima

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 11:15:01 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty
Of course this is a delicate matter; I have worked with the local women's shelters an I have training

Pardon me if I question you when you discuss "training."  We all know that you have made claims here regarding other training that you have never backed up.  Again, anyone can say they have been "trained."  Doesn't mean they are qualified.

quote:

I KNOW about drug addicts, I was married to one. I take this VERY seriously

So you know one then.  I was married to one and I was one.  So?  Doesn't necessarily make me qualified to counsel anyone about substance abuse/addiction

quote:

Why in the hell would I offer to do this for people that I don't know if I don't know what I was doing?

Ummmm, drama?  Not sure - only you can answer that one.

quote:

I know my stuff, I keep up on things, I go to classes, I am even listed on our [the international non-profit] international site and on the local hotline; that is a LOT of responsibility

Again, you claiming that you "know your stuff" and that you "keep up on things" is no substitute for real training and certification/licensure, etc.  It is indeed alot of "responsibility."  Perhaps too much for an unlicensed nonprofessional "counselor."

quote:

slaveluci just because you don't now how to handle a situation like this or others, does NOT mean that I don't or that others on these boards don't

First of all, I'm not talking to others on these boards.  I'm talking to you.  And boy are you presumptuous.  I happen to know how to handle this situation and others.  Here are my qualifications:  A BS degree in behavioral science, an AS in criminal justice, and over 4 years managing a domestic violence shelter.  Even with my education and hands-on, everyday experience, I don't set myself up as an expert who can take the place of a licenced professional psychologist/therapist, etc.  Now, rose, what are YOUR qualifications?  Spell it out right here.  But I won't hold my breath as you have yet to EVER answer a legitimate question about all your alleged training and knowledge.

quote:

The person who trained me had been abused herself, she gives out my number to those she councils when she is out of town, I take that as a compliment.

Being abused yourself (which I also have been) does not an expert make.  It does not qualify anyone to counsel others in a professional capacity.  You know a person who was abused and she refers others to you for "counseling."  I'd be interested in her credentials as well.  I'm sure it is a compliment to you.  That doesn't make it ethical or wise to do.

quote:

The person I am waiting to hear from is not the first woman I have gone through this with; every person is different, every situation unique.

My point exactly and just exactly why a professional is needed and not just someone with a similar experience who thinks they can offer some pointers.

Come on rose......lay your training, education, credentials, etc. out just like I did....I dare ya.............slave luci



_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 11:17:30 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci
Come on rose......lay your training, education, credentials, etc. out just like I did....I dare ya.............slave luci


Just a post to say how proud I am of your beautiful quotes Luci!!!!!

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 11:22:25 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: peepeegirl5

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: peepeegirl5
I counsel women who are in relationships with males where they both suffer from sexual corruption, (i.e. failure to recognize their true roles). I teach her the techniques that will bring their roles back into harmony with what the Goddess intends.
Blessings and intense sexual bliss to all women and males who recognize their true roles.
Domina Sancti

Yeah, I think I read that already this morning on another thread.  If so, then the same advice applies to you.  If you're not professionally trained and licensed, it may be best to keep your extensive wisdom and knowledge to yourself unless it is expressly stated that you are not a professional.  Apparently anyone can pass themselves off as a counselor.  It doesn't mean they are.........slave luci


hehehhehe...

I've never been accused of being a professional yet.

And yet I have a 100% success rate.



Any test with a 100 percent success rate is a faulty test.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to peepeegirl5)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 11:26:12 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci
Come on rose......lay your training, education, credentials, etc. out just like I did....I dare ya.............slave luci


Just a post to say how proud I am of your beautiful quotes Luci!!!!!

Yay !  I second that - although I have to admit to liking that yummy colour font she had...
 
Peace
the.dark.
 

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 11:26:19 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: peepeegirl5
hehehhehe...
I've never been accused of being a professional yet.
And yet I have a 100% success rate.

The first statement I believe.  The second I'm not so sure about........slave luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to peepeegirl5)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 11:28:11 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Just a post to say how proud I am of your beautiful quotes Luci!!!!!

Thank you for noticing, LA.  I've been practicing.  And to think I owe it all to you

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 11:30:31 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		If you start and stop the sample with the first successfull case you can have 100% success rate, LOL.
After moving out of Mom's place getting a colege education and then working in the field for a few years then tell me about success rates, until then it's arrogance. Asking for respect and credit that has yet to be earned.

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 11:31:00 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
Yay !  I second that - although I have to admit to liking that yummy colour font she had...
 
Peace
the.dark. 
Why thank you!  I liked it too but I was kinda gettin' the feeling it was annoying too many people and you know me, I wouldn't want to annoy anyone..........luci


_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 11:34:25 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Sometimes people will not go to a professional counsler for too many reasons to go into here.  It is up to those who are trained in some way without a degree, to seek them out, work with them and try to get them to a professional that can work on the long term end that needs to take place.  Until all that work is done, it is those with the heart and position in the shelters, hotlines etc. to work the situation, help with the present needs and step in to intervine.

I do not have a degree...{smile} which was topic city wide when it was reported in the news paper when I took over the shelter.  The professionals came at me like... well... I don't know what to call it... but they wanted me out! lol  My first speech was in front of many medical professionals and social workers.  They tried to take me out... but they could never find one thing I did out of line, harmful or anything else. I shut more than one up for good because they actually made fools of themselves in some cases. They fought me hard... but in the end... in many things we agreed to disagree and actually worked together in many ways.  Throughout the years, I worked with professionals and they found my assistance worth coming back for.

Please do not give more credit or take credit from situations that you don't know first hand.  If someone is working in the field and their clients are doing well, they are refering people on when needed and all is good... then that person knows what they are doing.  Their job isn't the long haul of emotional healing... it can maybe be called a bandaid and a bandaid is fine to use to get you to what you might really need.

I have known lay counslers that were far more effective than professionals.  I have worked cases in a layman's role before and after professionals.  In fifteen minutes I figured out what a professional didn't in two years of two sessions a week.  I have also known of layman that were totally off their rocker and needed to be held accountable.

When a lay person is recommended by other professionals... when they have the respect of the community in which they work and when they are providing a true public and personal service, we cannot discount what they do!  When they speak of what they do, knowing they can honestly and ethically sleep at night, maybe we should give them some time to prove themselves before we discredit them and their heartfelt desire to be of true assistance.  I have yet to hear anyone state that they replace professsional assitance or do not refere people on.  I have heard that these people are in a place to serve as a steping stone in a life and a situation. 

I may mention what I do because it is such a big part of myself, but I do not use it to make more of myself or gain anything in return except maybe someone knowing what my life is about.  Please don't make it a challenge unless something improper is going on or someone is actually being harmed by the services the non professionals provide.  They have their place in our communities and the good one's are needed!

With all due respect, I hope I haven't offended anyone and I am sure that I may get flamed, but with mental health systems the way they are at least in the United States, professional services can be hard to get and even when getting them, the services can be questionable.  There isn't enough funding, there isn't enough of anything and mental health workers often get paid far too little and some become hardened to it all and because of this and so many other things, mistakes are made professionally and within the non professional services offered.

When anyone can get good quality professional services and I mean... anyone... and I mean, good quality... then there may be no need for the non professional or degreed mental health or life crisis workers... but until then, lets give a little credit for the heart it takes, because many of these workers do so without pay.

Lockit

(in reply to daddysprop247)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 11:41:42 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		See now that is a lay counilor I can believe knows something.
Had the earlier posters even made half as much sense I might have bought off on their ability.
Trouble is they focused on entirely the wrong things.

Lay people in many fields can and do remarkable things, but they also have limitations and so long as they know them and proceed accordingly, I'm OK with them.


(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 11:44:39 AM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		luci and LaT are right about it being irresponsible to "counsel" anyone without their knowledge that you are not a trained, licensed, professional.  There is "peer counseling" but those who avail themselves of that option should have an undrestanding of what that is.  Giving advice because you have had the same experiences in life can be comforting and helpful, but it cannot replace professional help. 

i think in regards to Whip's OP julietsierra said it best
quote:



No matter what I do; no matter how strict, open, difficult the relationships are that I enter into, regardless of what I call myself, I'll be in them until it no longer feels healthy for me. And when I'm feeling that what's happening is unhealthy - I'm gone.



And i think aquaticSub made a very astute observation when she said:

quote:


But... I wonder if part of the reason subs and slaves have trouble getting out of situations that are actually abusive is the "thou shalt never leave" line of thinking that gets pushed around. I wonder if the people with that line of thinking scold and scorn these people as soon as they manage get themselves free, effectively destroying what should be a support network.



prop i absolutely disagre with you. 

quote:


i've always been of the belief that an Owner has the right to do whatever they wish to the one who belongs to them, including abuse. if there is even such a thing as abuse in M/s (many feel there is not, as one of the definitions of abuse..."improper use"...is not possible in M/s), then certainly a Master has the right to abuse his slave. all of the things Whiplash mentioned in Post #4 are things a Master has the full right to do, imo.



Just because one becomes a slave does not mean they have to accept their lot in life and accept abuse because an owner can do anything they wish, even abuse, that's dangerous and nonsense. 

If this horrendous way of thinking is true then all an "abuser" would have to do is put on a "Master hat" and find some "slave" that will accpet his abuse.  Master's should be accountable for the treatment of their slaves and if a slave feels she has  been abused she should get out. Unfortunately many are so brainwashed they can't think straight, or they buy into the "i am owned, with no limits, i must do anything my owner tells me even if its [illegal, harmful, dangerous, abusive, etc] - that's not being a slave, that's plain and simple dysfunctional.

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 40
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