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RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 12:57:24 PM   
ModeratorEleven


Posts: 2007
Joined: 8/14/2005
Status: offline 		Ok folks, please settle down.

Thanks,

XI

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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 1:00:24 PM   
MissPriss88


Posts: 19
Joined: 4/5/2007
Status: offline 		I posted earlier, and almost feel as if I shouldn't have. Being a nineteen year old girl with no credentials ... But I offered my best advice and hope it helps nonetheless.

But then I read further down and see how one can scoff at us kiddos, whom upon questioned on their  credentials or experience replies with quotes from an Avril Lavigne song.
*shakes head* And we're the hope of the future? hrm.

I did however continue on to do some research on a real "professional" who has helped many abused women... and it's not what one would think. She uses her photography as a form of therapy to help women realize the true beauty that still remains in them even after such traumatic events.
Thought it might be interesting if anyone wanted to take a look.
http://www.beaglebay.com/wiscatpg.htm




allurette.

(in reply to ModeratorEleven)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 1:00:26 PM   
JPSartre


Posts: 3
Joined: 5/20/2007
Status: offline 		what seems to be the major problem here?

(in reply to ModeratorEleven)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 1:12:18 PM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247
however i understand the reality is that not all slaves can bear or accept such treatment

I could but I don't and never will.  I know many other slaves who feel the same way.  It's not that we are unable to "tough it out" or "take it," it's just why would we settle for that which is detrimental to us?  You have been very honest about having little control over your own submission and about craving what others would consider unduly harsh, cruel, and yes even abusive.  Therefore, when you receive such treatment is isn't abuse to you.  It's fulfilling your needs so, no, that isn't abusive to you.

On the flip side of this, I don't desire cruelty, broken ribs, or a master who beats me when he comes home from work angry at someone or something else like WhiplashSmile mentioned.  My Master and I both consider that abusive and the opposite of "mastery" of one's self, let alone a slave.  Obviously, what is abusive to me and others is not abusive to you.  But, as LA indicated, what would perhaps come closest to being abusive for you would be having to go against your nature - the nature that desires that harshness, cruelty, and submission to those around you.  I know you will probably say that nothing your master did would be considered abuse to you and only you can determine that.  However I think that if he denied you any outlet for the submissiveness that you say guides you so strongly, that would be detrimental to you.  Just as detrimental as some of the other things that you gladly accept would be to me and others.  And, as LA said, surely you couldn't handle having to be a Domme 24/7.  Just a thought.........luci 


actually slaveluci, and not sure if you would find this surprising or not, but i'm not one of those slaves who feels that a Master cannot abuse their property. i will readily admit (as will my Master) that my Master abuses me. however, my nature is such that it is able to tolerate this abuse. also my Master taught me from day one that he firmly believed a slave is to be abused from time to time, so that is what i accept and believe as well. in fact, i am kneeling here nervous and scared beyond expression because in a very few moments a Dominant (sent by my Master) will be here to abuse me. it is not something i look forward to, but i accept such things as part of my life, and understand that they help me to grow as a slave, even if they do not make me all happy and tingly. abuse is not something i "desire", it is something i accept, simple as that.

as far as the scenario of having to be dominant to others, that is not something i would consider abusive, it is something that would simply be impossible. i wouldn't be able to fulfill such a command, and would therefore be devastated because i would have displeased my Master. not to mention that i would feel as if our entire union had been a lie.


(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 1:24:42 PM   
Evlgryn


Posts: 64
Joined: 9/24/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farieanne

my first experience in a D/s relationship became abusive. Not physically, but mentally and emotionally. ... i did give him complete control over my life. He began to isolate me from my friends and family. He took away things and activities that i truly loved and were really a part of who i was... He even took my money and credit cards hostage...
...my Master that i am with now,... i knew all thins before He collard me and before Wwe got married. Now Wwe live what feels like to me a fairytale and i find myself wondering when i am going to wake up, *grins*

The problem is normal definitions of abuse don't apply to an Owner  and his Devoted slave. Whenever normal legal precedents are applied fur flies. A few years back in Atteboro Mass there was a famous instance where a woman was sent to jail for administering a consensual paddling to another adult with a wooden spoon. Lord help a lot of us if we were in front of that judge.

I have seen abusive relationships in this thing that we do. It isn't just a matter of degrees. The whole thing smells different. I have  been on the lookout for a concrete indicator of abusive relationships that transcends BDSM and Vanilla relationships. The one that I have found is this recurring theme of  isolating from friends and family. Bad Doms, Abusive Spouses, Abusive Parents all seem to do this.



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"Evil will always triumph over good because good is dumb...Ludicrous speed . . . go! "
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(in reply to farieanne)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 1:26:45 PM   
PassionateTulip


Posts: 40
Joined: 5/15/2007
Status: offline 		There is a huge difference between being truly taken advantage of and being "taken by a true Master"..... The difference is that you are consenting to his treatment of you. Would you be consenting if your Master pulled a gun on you and said "I desire to shoot you in the leg" or worse, kill you?

Tulip

(in reply to daddysprop247)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 1:27:36 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247
however, my nature is such that it is able to tolerate this abuse.

As I just stated, I could also "tolerate" abuse.  I just choose not to and happen to have a Master who sees zero value in or use for abuse.

quote:

even if they do not make me all happy and tingly.

Not sure why the derisive comment.  I didn't say it did make you "happy and tingly".  I do however believe that you get some satisfaction out of it or you would not do it, even if it is nothing more than knowing that it pleases your master for you to have to endure it.  That's the biggest satisfaction I get out of anything I do for or with my Master - His pleasure.

quote:

abuse is not something i "desire", it is something i accept, simple as that.

Ok.  You accept that you must do what your master desires for you to.  Same here.  Your's desires that you endure abuse, mine doesn't.  Doesn't change the underlying philosophy that we are both striving to always please our master's however they wish.........slave luci

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(in reply to daddysprop247)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 1:36:05 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissPriss88
I posted earlier, and almost feel as if I shouldn't have. Being a nineteen year old girl with no credentials ... But I offered my best advice and hope it helps nonetheless.

Hello.  I hope you haven't misconstrued what I have said toward Rose and toward Peepeegirl as being all inclusive.  I don't think Peepeegirl's age is what is of import here.  It's the fact that the things she says do not add up.  She's an 18 year old with all these tons of life experience she claims?  Doesn't seem likely.  No, I don't know her personally but I have lived long enough to have some common sense and to see glaring inconsistencies when they are right before my eyes.  As for Rose, I think it's been made clear that peer counseling is a very acceptable thing.  This is not what she seems to be doing.  And, as she continues to claim training and credentials she obviously doesn't have, the comments I made were toward her and not nonprofessionals in general.  Many people without credentials (even young ones...lol) can offer much sage advice.  These two particular cases just don't seem to involve such...to me at least....slave luci 


 

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To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to MissPriss88)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 1:36:21 PM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline 		There's a been a wide range of responses from everybody so far.  There are few things perhaps to consider in more detailed length.

Length of time before getting into another M/s relationship.
I seen a number posts where people recommend it's best to avoid another relationship for a year, for the sub/slave to spend time working on themselves first.  However the reality is that some of the damages from abuse may be deep.  Such as Eating Disorders, patterns of behaviors such as only feeling safe sleeping in a closet, Anxiety or other issues.   Things that, in a sense, become a form of baggage.  The thing is that even a year alone is not enough to really or truely help them get over or past the abuse.  Even more so, if they had been in an abuse M/s relationship for say 8-10 years.  Even more of a challenge if the slave entered into the M/s relationship at the age of 18 or some early age.  

At some point in time the slave/submissive seeks out another relationship be it BDSM M/s or even dare I say it vanilla.  There is all this wonderful Baggage that she and her New Master will deal with.   In terms of being a Master, part of our role involves training, behavior modifications, adjustments in behavior, you know all the fun stuff everybody talks about.  Down to Helping the slave/submissive grow and be able to do new things.   However, in this case help the save with things such as Eating behaviors, Sleeping patterns and everything else.   Even more so in moments of Post Traumatic Stress kick in!  PTS can be a bitch at times for both parties?

In terms of professional help, there are Great Professionals and Certified Idiots.  Just because somebody has a PHD or Degree in their field does not mean they are a Great at what they do.  It simply means they Graduated College! Studied and passed tests.   Does this mean they passed with the min GPA or not?  What else have these professionals accomplished? The people in the field that enjoy their work with a passion tend to be the best ones.   In terms of having a PHD in a field, most professionals are forced to take on One perspective vs. another perspectin in the approach for cause and treatment.  Another reason why professional help can fail at time.   I'm not saying all professional help fails just that it's a not a sure fire thing either.

People with problems simply can't rely upon Professional help and that alone.  They have to have the desire to work on themselves and work on the problems it causes in the relationship.  Also the Master has to be patient and understanding of these issues, and be supportive and work at it too.   There is more to it instead of seeking out professional help alone.  A number of factors involved.   This clearly is a challenge for both slaves and their Masters in a new M/s relationship.

Interested in hearing about these challenges and how people have made adjustments to their BDSM to account for all this, or how they became aware of special training focus issues.   For instance a Master helping a slave overcome a eating disorder and maintaining awareness of patterns that support positive healthy eating.   A master being aware of things that trigger a relasp in bad eating patterns.   I'm only use Eating as one example.  There are many areas that could be effected by this.


(in reply to ModeratorEleven)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 1:38:09 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Why don't we take a page from Archer's thread and ask what about a slave helping their master who was abused in a prior relationship?

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(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 1:38:50 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		lol boy this went way off!  I am sorry if I took part in anything.

I think the OP had a great thread going and maybe we can get back to it.  I cannot suggest anything as I haven't been involved in the lifestyle all that long.  The only suggestions I could make are vanilla, but even still could have place just because we all are humans first.

Finding someone (Dom) that understood the dynamics of abuse (determined by each person or relationship) and who could do as the OP talked about... what a DaddyDom does would be in my opinon a very good compliment to more professional or group therpy benefits if they are needed.

We all need to be loved, reassured, respected and considered when something bad has happened and having a supportive Dom/Mistress/submissive can be nothing less than an asset.

Trust has been broken... hell we all have been there... how do we learn to trust again?  I have my own thoughts on that stemming from self and then moving to someone else... but I am interested in what people have done to rebuild trust.  I have noticed that some use fear to harden and then use that as the tool that protects them and sometimes I wonder how all that plays into the lifestyle.  I could go on with question after question lol... but I won't bore you! lol

Lockit

(in reply to daddysprop247)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 1:42:38 PM   
MissPriss88


Posts: 19
Joined: 4/5/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissPriss88
I posted earlier, and almost feel as if I shouldn't have. Being a nineteen year old girl with no credentials ... But I offered my best advice and hope it helps nonetheless.

Hello.  I hope you haven't misconstrued what I have said toward Rose and toward Peepeegirl as being all inclusive.  I don't think Peepeegirl's age is what is of import here.  It's the fact that the things she says do not add up.  She's an 18 year old with all these tons of life experience she claims?  Doesn't seem likely.  No, I don't know her personally but I have lived long enough to have some common sense and to see glaring inconsistencies when they are right before my eyes.  As for Rose, I think it's been made clear that peer counseling is a very acceptable thing.  This is not what she seems to be doing.  And, as she continues to claim training and credentials she obviously doesn't have, the comments I made were toward her and not nonprofessionals in general.  Many people without credentials (even young ones...lol) can offer much sage advice.  These two particular cases just don't seem to involve such...to me at least....slave luci 


 


No, no, not at all dear. Just simply smiling at the situation. I had hoped the winky face would add to that.


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allurette.

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 1:44:34 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartofakajira

.....what experience can an 18 year old CHILD have?  

Whether anyone believes peepee girl or not (and I am assuming that is who the remark was pointed to) is irrelevant - that really has to be one of thee most condecending remarks I have had to witness and shows a complete lack of maturity in it's own right.  Age does NOT indicate any iota of maturity or experience - as exampled above.
 
Peace
the.dark.


< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 6/14/2007 1:45:47 PM >

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(in reply to heartofakajira)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 1:46:45 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Whiplashsmile... very well said!  I'm going to have to read more of your post!  Very interesting indeed!  Personally I think a lot of this depends on the people involved and the situation... but I am looking forward to the responses!

LA... now I have to go search for that thread!  Sounds interesting... thanks for bringing it up!

Lockit... off to figure out how to do this lol

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 1:56:54 PM   
PassionateTulip


Posts: 40
Joined: 5/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartofakajira
what experience can an 18 year old CHILD have?  


Quite possibly more than someone of many 3 or even 4 times their own age. I know 5 year olds with more experience and knowledge than some who are in their 40's or 50's......... Hell, my mother who is 60 lives in her own lil world with very little experience ~ If she hasn't seen it, to her it doesn't and will never exist or be possible~ I had to explain to her what "friends with benefits" are a year ago.... She said "No, no one would ever do that! It's just silly!"....... The most important thing to remember is that all the experience in the world does not prepare one for what is to come. Age is merely a measurement of time. It is what we do with that time which gives age any meaning. Some younger folks choose to make something of themselves and it is not our fault that you or whoever else MAY have chosen to mess around in early adulthood..... Some do, some don't..... we all have our paths and they lead us to where we need to be, when we need to be there. Haven't we had enough age/expereince debates here?

(in reply to heartofakajira)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 2:03:36 PM   
tulipgoose


Posts: 112
Joined: 10/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile

Length of time before getting into another M/s relationship.




I always tended to benefit from "jumping back in" to the relationship world as quickly as possible. I'm the type of person who tends to fall apart when I don't have someone to be with, and flourish when I am with someone.

I think, for myself, being alone is the surefire way to get myself into bad habits and self loathing. Since I moved out from living with my ex I have slept on the couch because I couldn't handle sleeping in a bed alone. The couch was nurturing because I could almost cradle myself in it. This tends to be more so because of my ageplay lifestyle.

I always tended to throw away my lifestyle as much as possible until I was able to find someone again, because it hurt far less to hibernate than to be so needing and not have any way to fill those needs......

This is just my way, and I hope it helps answer your curiosities :)

Tulip

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 2:54:34 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartofakajira

.....what experience can an 18 year old CHILD have?  

Whether anyone believes peepee girl or not (and I am assuming that is who the remark was pointed to) is irrelevant - that really has to be one of thee most condecending remarks I have had to witness and shows a complete lack of maturity in it's own right.  Age does NOT indicate any iota of maturity or experience - as exampled above.
 
Peace
the.dark.



Thank you for that dark. I agree. I have met many young people that have expressed amazing wisdom and grace. I also know many, supposed, adults that are seriously lacking in both.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 3:41:52 PM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline 		For Slaves
have you've or somebody you know been turned away by a Master for having baggage from a past abusive relationship and life, or accepted?

For Masters
have you turned away or know another Master that has turned a prospective slave away for having baggage or simply accepted it?

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 3:58:34 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
No, never.  But then I tend to view my 'baggage' as a part of me and the whole learning process in whatever situation and with whoever I am with or know.  Baggage isn't a negative thing to me.
 
Why is it always assumed that it is the submissive or slave or bottom that has suffered past abuse?  Or that they are the ones that carry the heaviest damage?
Something I will add which I think is missed out is would a submissive 'reject' or turn away a dominant with baggage?  I don't see the question being asked of s-types themselves if it is a make or break issue or whether a dominant has such difficulties - or do you believe that is another point altogether or it just isn't a particular issue to you that interests you?
 
Peace
the.dark.


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RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s - 6/14/2007 4:32:41 PM   
MissOchistic


Posts: 315
Joined: 4/30/2007
Status: offline 		This is what I know I need as I'm getting out of an abusive situation, and while I move on, that I know many abuse victims can relate with:

I need reassurance with my trust issues, to be told things that should be obvious, like that He loves me and isn't cheating on me and won't hurt me.
I need space to be independant and relearn how to do things alone and for myself.
I need a friend to just talk to as much as I need any other relationship dynamic with Him.
I need Him to understand that it isn't Him, it's me, if I ever flinch or am scared to talk about things like moving in together. As much as I'd love to let myself believe the truth that He is not the same and won't hurt me, it will be a long time before I'll really be ready to be anywhere I can't just stand up and walk away from.
And I need patience while I get over those things and get my new life started.

For the record, He's been an angel putting up with me and knowing where to step in, where to stand back. I think if you give your slave/friend/whoever patience and a shoulder to cry on, she'll be fine.

Also, I might add that awkward as it can be having a slave tell you what she will do, if she's leaving an abusive relationship now is a time to let her make her own decisions about what she needs and what she will do (in the big picture, I mean. i.e., work, moving in/out).


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is more than two, but less than three."

"Submission is a potlatch."

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 80
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