slaveluci
Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DomKen
Let me make somethings clear. First and most importantly I don't think 'they got what they deserved.' No one deserves to die in a fire or by having a loved one shoot them or stab them
Agreed....or by having a government agent shoot them either.
quote:
However the government simply cannot allow seperatist groups of any stripe to blatantly break laws of the sort the Davidians were accused of breaking. It endangers others far too much. If the Davidians had remained a peaceful breakaway group of Seventh Day Adventists I am quite willing to bet the Mt. Carmel complex would still be there today. When Koresh took over and started having the Davidians stockpile arms and convery weapons to fire full automatic they crossed a line that many other groups have crossed with all too often tragic results. Once the child bride and other abuse charges became public, in the Waco paper the very day of the raid, it is reasonable to assume Texas's child welfare agency was going to get involved. What would the Davidians have done when the vans rolled up to gather evidence, interview the children and quite likely take the kids into protective custody? Would we now be blaming the ATF for allowing the executions of those Texas state employees?
Valid points. It is indeed hard to imagine what would have happened had the massacre not gone down like it did. We can only imagine since we'll never know.
quote:
As to your questioning of the feds concerns for child brides in mormon sects, it ill hopefully please you that Warren Jeffs is in federal custody and the FLDS, the infamous mormon polygamist sect whose communities straddle the Utah/Arizona border, that he controlled seems to be collapsing. The Utah state government has seized control of all the homes and businesses in these towns by taking over a charity that the church used to own all the property so as to evade taxes on it.
Just because I didn't know about that one report you told me about doesn't mean I'm not aware of any newsworthy events . I'm well aware of what has happened with Warren Jeffs - finally. Glad they finally got around to looking into that whole thing and as an added benefit the government gets to have all the homes and businesses to boot.
quote:
The dozens of young men thrown out of the group in order to maintain the imbalance of women needed to allow widespread polygamy are making headway in being reintegrated with their families and community.
Yes, I've read about that and it's great to know that's happening. It is indeed hopeful, as you say.
Just a thought: I've always found it ironic and sad that many of these sects are founded with what I consider good ideas in mind. They are founded by people who are disillusioned by or tired of conventional society or religion and just want to get off with those of like mind and live their own way. I'm all about that. They usually go into it with the nagging belief that the government or "powers that be" are "out to get" them. That may or may not be true, depending on the group. However, as time goes by, these same "leaders" begin to act in ways that will insure that the government trains their scope on them (figuratively and literally). It's a self-fulfilling prophecy because eventually the government is after them and usually does wind up murdering some of them, destroying their homestead, etc. I just find it tragic that some of these people (Jim Jones, David Koresh, etc.) start out with what I consider idealistic plans. Eventually, their power and paranoia end up causing immoral and/or criminal behavior and then the very "enemies" they fear are sure to notice and "come after" them just as they always feared. Seems like anyone charismatic enough to gain a following and attempt their own Utopian version of society also always happens to be just disturbed enough to let that power corrupt them and have it inevitably lead to tragedies such as those at Jonestown and Waco. To me, it's sad all the way around..........slave luci
_____________________________
To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin
|
RE: Ron Paul on "The Colbert Report" - 
Profile
. I appreciate you busting all these myths, as you say, but everything I have said is not a "myth." It's obvious you take no issue with the raid and you appear to feel the Davidians got what they deserved. That's fine but I disagree. The exact chain of events isn't as important to me as the fact that all these guns, tanks, and canisters of gas should never have been there in the first place. Exactly what followed what is kind of beside the point. None of the deadly events could have happened if the botched raid hadn't been conducted in the first place. Koresh and the Davidians certainly don't share the blame for that decision. 
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread