Slaves of Quality

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darkmyth -> Slaves of Quality (6/14/2007 3:41:33 PM)
So many slaves wish to be objectified, de-humanized and tortured. These things become tedious if there is no greater depth to the relationship. While our manner of interacting may at times be curt or to objectify, this is done with an understanding that ultimately we desire our slaves to be intelligent and conscious of themselves as individuals. Being a slave should not necessitate being inferior, only giving absolute control to another. Slaves have little value if they do not value themselves and bring their masters only as much honor as their level of personal excellence. How fulfilling is it to dominate something pitiful? It seems exceedingly difficult to find slaves of quality. Does anyone else share this frustration?

slaverosebeauty -> RE: Slaves of Quality (6/14/2007 3:49:14 PM)
{raises hand} If a top-type wants a door mat or an object, then they can go and buy one. Me, I am soo much better than an object or a door-mat, I am interactive, I keep a top on their toes. I don't look at myself as inferior to ANYONE; I am everyone's equal, even the Goreans who look down on anyone who is NOT Gorean or who doesn't play by 'their' rules or act as they think I should. I have had partners who wished to dehuminize and humuliate, I had a few 'words' for them, and then ended the relationship there. I don't want to fear my partner or to put them on a pedistal where they become unreachable or untouchable; I want them close to me and to be real as in interactive. Welcome to the boards darkmyth. [:D]

velvetears -> RE: Slaves of Quality (6/14/2007 3:58:57 PM)
Thank you for pointing out a very important facet of being a slave and offering your well stated pov. It's important to hear from the masters what qualities they find important in a slave, and to know that one doesn't have to be a self sacrificing "pitiful" creature to be worthy. Nice first post and welcome to the boards [:)]

RCdc -> RE: Slaves of Quality (6/14/2007 4:11:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: darkmyth So many slaves wish to be objectified, de-humanized and tortured. These things become tedious if there is no greater depth to the relationship. While our manner of interacting may at times be curt or to objectify, this is done with an understanding that ultimately we desire our slaves to be intelligent and conscious of themselves as individuals. Being a slave should not necessitate being inferior, only giving absolute control to another. Slaves have little value if they do not value themselves and bring their masters only as much honor as their level of personal excellence. How fulfilling is it to dominate something pitiful? It seems exceedingly difficult to find slaves of quality. Does anyone else share this frustration? Some slave enjoy being objectified and de-humanized - doesn't make them lesser people just because they voice and offer up a desire that for a short time gives them freedom. Quality is totally subjective. What you find as quality another may see as a cheap imitation. I haven't come across any 'worthless' slaves nor submissives - the only odd time might be on a message board like this, but I don't really take that as it looks because those are just people on a screen who rarely post again. I believe it is just frustrating to find someone compatable .fullstop. and not simply a 'slavethang'. Welcome to the boards btw quote: If a top-type wants a door mat or an object, then they can go and buy one. Why - you wouldn't be judging now surely? [;)] I know some fucking yummy doormats - you say 'doormat' like it's a bad thing. I love some peoples ability to be able to dismiss a fetish or orientation offhand like that and put themselves on a pedestal so they are obviously superior. Peace the.dark.

awhippedboy -> RE: Slaves of Quality (6/14/2007 4:16:51 PM)
I understand the sentiment about slaves of quality but multiply that difficulty X10 and you'll se what a slave goes thru trying to find a Domme. Ihave always followed thru with everything I have ever said/promised but I would have to take of my shoes to count the times Dommes have flaked.

tricia -> RE: Slaves of Quality (6/14/2007 4:32:43 PM)
quote: Me, I am soo much better than an object or a door-mat, I am interactive, I keep a top on their toes. I don't look at myself as inferior to ANYONE; I am everyone's equal, even the Goreans who look down on anyone who is NOT Gorean or who doesn't play by 'their' rules or act as they think I should. Just so i understand - equal to Goreans and superior to those who don't submit in the same manner you do. Interesting. I've seen many submissive women post here who are articulate, intelligent, well rounded and opinionated - and who have no problem being their Master's valued doormat. Self sacrificing - a bad thing? I always thought that facet of my personality was part of what made me worthy and special. Within my relationship and outside of it. Because it's become so easy - i want to take this opportunity to declare myself superior to those 'i am woman - hear me roar types. You know, the ones really looking for husbands and kinky sex under the guise of being submissive.

darkmyth -> RE: Slaves of Quality (6/14/2007 4:33:24 PM)
quote: Some slave enjoy being objectified and de-humanized - doesn't make them lesser people just because they voice and offer up a desire that for a short time gives them freedom.[. . .]Quality is totally subjective. What you find as quality another may see as a cheap imitation. Obviously this is our pov, a single pov, and we are aware that everything is relative. Expectations and desires in this arena run the gamut. We are aware these activities are commonly enjoyed and you might observe our post does not preclude them, but simply states, "These things become tedious if there is no greater depth to the relationship." Again, our pov. Thank you to all for the cordial greetings.

Kirata -> RE: Slaves of Quality (6/14/2007 4:51:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: darkmyth So many slaves wish to be objectified, de-humanized and tortured. These things become tedious if there is no greater depth to the relationship. While our manner of interacting may at times be curt or to objectify, this is done with an understanding that ultimately we desire our slaves to be intelligent and conscious of themselves as individuals. Being a slave should not necessitate being inferior, only giving absolute control to another. Slaves have little value if they do not value themselves and bring their masters only as much honor as their level of personal excellence. How fulfilling is it to dominate something pitiful? It seems exceedingly difficult to find slaves of quality. Does anyone else share this frustration? There are probably more than we recognize. I think it is often unknown even to the girl herself. But since you are speaking specifically of "finding" them, I'd like you to show me even one available for the "finding". A good slave takes little pleasure, or not for long, in her theoretical value as property if she unowned and of no use to anyone except herself. I would guess that what you are seeing, and talking about, are fine owned girls. And I think you would be surprised at how many would be fine owned girls, if you were attracted to them and wanted to own them. I also have to question your use of the phrase, "giving absolute control to another." Control strikes me as fetishistic and off the mark, unless perhaps that is your fetish. To be a slave, the girl must only tender absolute obedience. To me, that is not saying the same thing. K.

AwakenedStar -> RE: Slaves of Quality (6/14/2007 5:12:12 PM)
when i first started out, i had doormat syndrome. i think it is an easy thing for a submissive to get confused about. that word, submissive, makes it seem that way to someone who doesn't have the experience themselves, or doesn't have a more experienced person to talk to about lifestyle stuff. slave is even worse, i see slaves all the time that think they have to give up jobs, hobbies and friends in order to serve...and yet i don't know any Doms/Dommes who would ask so much!

justheather -> RE: Slaves of Quality (6/14/2007 5:22:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: darkmyth So many slaves wish to be objectified, de-humanized and tortured. These things become tedious if there is no greater depth to the relationship. While our manner of interacting may at times be curt or to objectify, this is done with an understanding that ultimately we desire our slaves to be intelligent and conscious of themselves as individuals. Being a slave should not necessitate being inferior, only giving absolute control to another. Slaves have little value if they do not value themselves and bring their masters only as much honor as their level of personal excellence. How fulfilling is it to dominate something pitiful? It seems exceedingly difficult to find slaves of quality. Does anyone else share this frustration? No. I've never found it difficult to find wonderful partners. Maybe if you were to shed the vapid cliches of red and black, leather and lace, faux celtic romance novel crapola and (cue the smoke machine) darkness, you'd find yourself among people with more depth and breadth of imagination--people who wouldn't tire you so. Or maybe you just tire easily. I dunno. Leaving behind the silly-at-best and too often pernicious "honor" ethic for something less cartoonish, something deeper and more robust, could have its beneficial effects, too, within and without the parts of your life in which you prefer to appear in costume, or uniform, or whatever that is. Anyway, these things sure work for me. Just one more "pov", yo.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Slaves of Quality (6/14/2007 5:42:34 PM)
Myth- I get where you're going, and generally agree with you. You're really not talking about people with a kink or fetish for humiliation/objectification. I think that's where the real issue here is. You're talking about parasites. And parasites don't work in any relationship that requires a long term fulfilling commitment to everyone.

Politesub53 -> RE: Slaves of Quality (6/14/2007 5:50:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty {raises hand} If a top-type wants a door mat or an object, then they can go and buy one. Me, I am soo much better than an object or a door-mat, I am interactive, I keep a top on their toes. I don't look at myself as inferior to ANYONE; I am everyone's equal, even the Goreans who look down on anyone who is NOT Gorean or who doesn't play by 'their' rules or act as they think I should. I have had partners who wished to dehuminize and humuliate, I had a few 'words' for them, and then ended the relationship there. I don't want to fear my partner or to put them on a pedistal where they become unreachable or untouchable; I want them close to me and to be real as in interactive. Welcome to the boards darkmyth. [:D] Interesting that you chose to type " anyone " in capitals. Form what i read most Masters and Mistresses see their slave as property. If you agree that they have this right to see you this way, then how can you be equal. The fact is you cant be a slave or a submissive and be equal, for equal indicates the no one is in charge of the other, that the two concerned are on an " equal " level. This is clearly not the case in any type of BDSM relationship. One is incharge, one is not. Furthermore, many Masters and Mistresses consider a slave to be property, how can property be equal. i wonder how a proper top would consider the remark that you keep a top on their toes, that indicates, at least to me, that you dont give them any credit for being a top. i consider myself submissive, and while i dont see myself as a doormat to any Mistress, i certainly dont see myself as equal nor see it my job to keep them on their toes. Inferior means lower down the order and i am exactly that. [;)]

AquaticSub -> RE: Slaves of Quality (6/14/2007 5:59:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Interesting that you chose to type " anyone " in capitals. Form what i read most Masters and Mistresses see their slave as property. If you agree that they have this right to see you this way, then how can you be equal. The fact is you cant be a slave or a submissive and be equal, for equal indicates the no one is in charge of the other, that the two concerned are on an " equal " level. This is clearly not the case in any type of BDSM relationship. One is incharge, one is not. Furthermore, many Masters and Mistresses consider a slave to be property, how can property be equal. i wonder how a proper top would consider the remark that you keep a top on their toes, that indicates, at least to me, that you dont give them any credit for being a top. i consider myself submissive, and while i dont see myself as a doormat to any Mistress, i certainly dont see myself as equal nor see it my job to keep them on their toes. Inferior means lower down the order and i am exactly that. [;)] I am a submissive, a slave, a kitten, a girlfriend, a whore, a slattern, an artist and a future mother all rolled up into one. And I am Valyraen's equal. Anyone who wants to tell me he isn't a "proper" top, would have my agreement. He isn't a top. He is a master, a lover, a boyfriend, an owner, a geek, a future father, a dominant, a friend, a writer and a horrible abuser who violates my body. I adore him. Some owners want their subs and slaves to be property? Go for it. Whatever tickles their boat. But I am their equal just as I am Valyraen's equal. That doesn't mean our roles are the same though. He is in charge because it is the way it pleases us to live. This is not a decision he made to have him make all the decisions, it's a decision we made. I made my decision - now they are all his to make or delgate to me as he sees fit. I do not keep him on his toes, but I am not inferior. If I ever become inferior, I will be released. He has no time to waste on inferior. Perhaps this is unusual, but if I were not equal to him, he would not be interested in me - nor would he consider me worth his time.

Politesub53 -> RE: Slaves of Quality (6/14/2007 6:07:34 PM)
i didnt say that a Dominant would not value a submissive/slave, surely though if one takes the role of Dominant then the other has to be unequal. Equal to me indicates both having the same degree of input, at all times. To me you can be unequal to each other, yet still have the greatest respect shown and afforded. As always on here i guess its down to how people view the words. ironically i love your tag line. Regards...politesub [;)]

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Slaves of Quality (6/14/2007 6:11:41 PM)
There are levels of equality. Being equal in importance isn't the same as being equal in authority isn't the same as being equal in ability, etc etc. It's not all just one measurement.

velvetears -> RE: Slaves of Quality (6/14/2007 6:14:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 The fact is you cant be a slave or a submissive and be equal, for equal indicates the no one is in charge of the other, that the two concerned are on an " equal " level. This is clearly not the case in any type of BDSM relationship. One is incharge, one is not..... ......i consider myself submissive, and while i dont see myself as a doormat to any Mistress, i certainly dont see myself as equal nor see it my job to keep them on their toes. Inferior means lower down the order and i am exactly that. [;)] i don't think equal means one is in charge and one is not. Perhaps you mean inequal status and not inequal worth. i would not want a dom who felt i was worth less then him but as his submissive the status would be inequal yes. You said you feel "lower down the order" so i have a suspicion you mean status and not worth.

Politesub53 -> RE: Slaves of Quality (6/14/2007 6:22:55 PM)
LA i really dont get the levels of equality, to me equal means exactly that. Velvet , and here is where i owe LA an apology, i did indeed mean equal worth but not equal status... Yes it sounds double dutch but i know what i mean [;)]

AquaticSub -> RE: Slaves of Quality (6/14/2007 6:24:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 i didnt say that a Dominant would not value a submissive/slave, surely though if one takes the role of Dominant then the other has to be unequal. Equal to me indicates both having the same degree of input, at all times. To me you can be unequal to each other, yet still have the greatest respect shown and afforded. As always on here i guess its down to how people view the words. ironically i love your tag line. Regards...politesub [;)] I do have equal input really. I just made my decision that he gets to make the decision. That's my input. It's no less valid, no less intelligent. I am his equal. Our power exchange is not equal, but I am his equal. If I ever buy into that "subs and slaves are inferior" line of thinking I will immediately be released. He told me over and over again - he has no time for inferior. By the way, the tag line is all him. [:)]

AquaticSub -> RE: Slaves of Quality (6/14/2007 6:28:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 LA i really dont get the levels of equality, to me equal means exactly that. Velvet , and here is where i owe LA an apology, i did indeed mean equal worth but not equal status... Yes it sounds double dutch but i know what i mean [;)] Now that makes more sense, though I still wouldn't use the word inferior about it. To my knowledge, the defination of the word inferior implies worth, not status. I don't consider my status inferior either, simply different. But that is up to each couple to decide.

velvetears -> RE: Slaves of Quality (6/14/2007 6:49:05 PM)
Good point about the word "inferior" which means of less quality. If my status of sub is of less quality then his status as dom it would seem to me i would then automatically not be very valuable to him. If you have a diamond ring and a zircon, you are going to take better care of the diamond as it has more value than the zircon. i want to feel the person i submit to values me.

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