RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks)

RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) (Full Version)

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LadyClaudiaVan -> RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) (6/19/2007 6:08:39 AM)
I have to add here in this thread that I just don't agree. I have seen many a posts which speak highly of submissive men. Pixelslave, believe me when I say, you should see the things that come in our mail-inboxes. Relax just a smidgin, please. The OP did not mean to group all the men who are submissives together but based on her experience she, has come across enough of condensccending, etc jerky submissives here to want to share it with her fellow members. Why are you attacking her for her experience and need to share. I do not understand.

LadyPact -> RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) (6/19/2007 9:19:28 AM)
One of the features that I find brings some of the misunderstandings on the boards of CM is the reply feature. Automatically, the little (in reply to xxxx) comes up, whether responding to that particular person or not. At times, this causes a lot of confusion and there are times I would think we would be better off without it. I did reply in particular to sea because he brings an excellent point with this. As we catagorize people, and see certain descriptions within ourselves, of course we're going to respond. Good choice you made in doing it, sea, because the specific one you picked (married Dommes) is one of the easiest groups to make quick assumptions about (in other words, automatically sneaking, cheating, lying, etc.). Bless your heart for not expanding the catagory of Pro's, because at this point, I think that would just start another tangent. There is a huge difference between the quality of character among any catagory of people. Many of the submissives who post frequently here offer interesting opinions, thoughts, and experiences. How I wish there were more of you! Unfortunately, that isn't the case. There is, in fact, the whole spectrum, both the high end and the low end. Sometimes, in frustration, the low quality end seems to get the focus.

pixelslave -> RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) (6/19/2007 12:14:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyClaudiaVan I have to add here in this thread that I just don't agree. I have seen many a posts which speak highly of submissive men. Pixelslave, believe me when I say, you should see the things that come in our mail-inboxes. Relax just a smidgin, please. The OP did not mean to group all the men who are submissives together but based on her experience she, has come across enough of condensccending, etc jerky submissives here to want to share it with her fellow members. Why are you attacking her for her experience and need to share. I do not understand. LadyCaludiaVan, I appreciate you approaching me directly in a straighforward manner. I have seen the things that come in your mailboxes. Mistress shares them with me all the time. She's often astonished by some of the things she receives as am I, despite her profile stating clearly that she's not looking. Recently, a man tried to diminish me in an attempt to get his foot in the door with her. As such, I feel I can state that I actually have seen examples of the variety of ways the ladies on this board are approached. [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m23.gif[/image] If the OP didn't mean to group all submissives together, she could easily have given specific examples of the mail that she has received. Instead, she chose to group submissives together into various categories, which is what I objected to. The ones who use some of the tactics she's mentioned in her OP do not represent all of us. I suspect that like me, most of the other submissives who post here, would prefer to be treated as *individuals* and not lumped in with a *generic group* of others that have displeased someone who is posting their distaste for the behavior of the other individuals who do not show the same respect for others that most of us do. That is my problem with *her post* and *not with her. You'll note I've not said anything personal about her that I can recall except that I've always held her in high regard, but was disappointed in the manner in which she chose to phrase her post. Her post comes across to me* as being disparaging of nearly all submissives, rather than being specific about the particular submissives who have not been respectful when they've approached her. [>:] I hope that helps explain where I'm coming from and why I have a problem with the original post that started this thread. [8\|] - pixel

AAkasha -> RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) (6/19/2007 12:16:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyClaudiaVan I have to add here in this thread that I just don't agree. I have seen many a posts which speak highly of submissive men. Pixelslave, believe me when I say, you should see the things that come in our mail-inboxes. Relax just a smidgin, please. The OP did not mean to group all the men who are submissives together but based on her experience she, has come across enough of condensccending, etc jerky submissives here to want to share it with her fellow members. Why are you attacking her for her experience and need to share. I do not understand. Thank you for putting eloquently what my response would be. I don't take issue or get personally offended when submissives post about their experiences in general with all types of femdoms because I know what I am and what I represent. When we see the thread started for the 160th time stating that all femdoms use kink as a way to get a submissive to pay for everything because they are gold diggers, I don't get personally offended. I choose whether or not, depending on how much time I have and how much I think the OP will even stick around to read the responses, I want to respond once again that I didn't get that femdom memo, because I work full time and my husband doesn't have a job (our choice; mostly my choice). Akasha

LadyClaudiaVan -> RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) (6/19/2007 2:05:45 PM)
Thank you but I have yet to see why you were so personally affected by her post. She did not say "All". I feel as though you want to discredit or minimize her experience and to me that does not seem right. I just don't get why you group yourself in the cateogory she complained about. Reiterating once again, she didnt say "all". Because you post and post and post in this thread, I wonder, and forgive me for assuming, if you feel that perhaps deep down you yourself may fall into the group she is referring to?

LadyClaudiaVan -> RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) (6/19/2007 2:08:04 PM)
It is true. I got the message that you were sharing and I did not feel as though you were saying "all". Sometimes when something hits close to home for someone, they make the most noise about it so you will have some men really dislike the truth you speak of. Perhaps this may serve as a wake up call for some and for how they seem to appear to other adults.

LadyClaudiaVan -> RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) (6/19/2007 2:10:32 PM)
And to let you know, there are a couple handful of e-mail subs from here that read your OP and said in a few words or less "she's probably right". And, they did not take your view point personally.

pixelslave -> RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) (6/19/2007 3:56:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyClaudiaVan Thank you but I have yet to see why you were so personally affected by her post. She did not say "All". I feel as though you want to discredit or minimize her experience and to me that does not seem right. I just don't get why you group yourself in the cateogory she complained about. Reiterating once again, she didnt say "all". Obviously, I cannot discredit anyone's experience. It is theirs and nothing I say will change it for them. Reading her OP, as I understood it, she was using her generalizations about submissives to try and support three points she wanted to make. Please correct me if I'm wrong in this observation. [8\|] 1) "I've noticed a trend over the last few years where submissive men seem to be trying a "counter approach" to attract femdoms, and in most cases it's pretty decent, but it's starting to go to the extreme for some, making it a turn off." 2) "I think the trend in general was going in the right direction, with many subs moving away from the approach of worshipping anything with a female name, positioning themselves as subservient in initial contacts, saying "I will do anything for you" and "I have no limits" and thinking that was sexy, being totally spineless and having no opinion, etc." 3) "I think it's fantastic that so many submissives are moving away from the "lowly worm" approach in their communication style with femdoms. However, I think some are blazing a trail in the WRONG direction, thinking that if they swing the pendulum all the way in the other direction that somehow femdoms are going to find that sexy and appealing. I don't think we do. I think there's a better balance than that." My question to you Ma'am would be: are the above 3 points what have been primarily discussed in this thread? [&:] To set up the arguments for Akasha's 3 primary points, submissives were either "categorized" or "characterized" in a number of different ways, which is what I object to. She characterized "many" (the term being used numerous times) as "lowly worm" subs, "mini assholes", The new age sub, "uber-independence/I don't need yer stinkin femdoms", a snarky attitude or a subtle asshole with a little "tude", those that wave the flag for "submissive rights" (perhaps there is a need for them considering the abuse that *does* in fact occur?), a "me first" attitude vs. "compatibility of kinks" or "everyone's needs must be met.", subs that "will slam the door on any femdom that expects gifts" or subs with no "generosity of spirit". [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m23.gif[/image] In a follow-up post, she further made observations about a number of unnamed subs who post in this forum. As I regularly post here, I objected to that as well. It was unclear if any reference was being made to me as no examples were given. If she has a problem with any of my posts or those of other subs, there is a mechanism in place here on CM for dealing with them at the time they are posted. I suggest it be used instead of complaining about them later in this manner. [&:] quote: Because you post and post and post in this thread, I wonder, and forgive me for assuming, if you feel that perhaps deep down you yourself may fall into the group she is referring to? I do *personally* take offense to her equating a "me first" attitude with the concept of finding a partner where there is a "compatibility of kinks" or a partner who agrees that "everyone's needs must generally be met". There are those in the lifestyle who clearly don't agree with the latter, so to make light of the latter IMO is a disservice to those who believe it is important or have lived in dismal and unsatisfying relationships where their needs were indeed ignored. To me, choosing a partner where one's kinks are compatible is a choice that every femdom couple can choose to make as have Mistress and I. [8D] As a frequent poster in this forum, that would be another group that I would fall into. Whether her comments regarding them were intended to apply to me I do not know as no names were ever mentioned. As to the number of posts I've made in this thread, I see that this will be my 7th post in this thread while for the record you have posted 11 times in it. Your impression that I've posted more than that may be related to the numerous times I have been quoted throughout this thread. Perhaps that is what you are referring to? For a thread with at least 208 posts in it, I don't think 7 posts on my part is excessive. [>:] As I'll be *very* busy over coming days, leaving little (if any) time to post let alone to even read the boards, the points I've made in response to your questions may be entirely moot. Thus, I hope I've responded to your satisfaction. [&:] - pixel

colleenslittleto -> RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) (7/19/2007 12:03:11 PM)
I discovered my need to be submissive when I first married. A beautiful woman with more experience than I, she taught me how to appreciate a woman's body to the point I enjoyed pleasing her as much if not more than taking care of my own needs. The relationship developed over time to me spending a great deal of time with my mouth between her legs. Things changed one vacation when she rolled over after I got her off orally. In the past I had flicked a tongue near this area but for the most part thought the act of "kissing" a woman's rear end, particularly inside, a very depraved act. In some sense it became the ultimate form of submission for me. If I could perform such a debasing gesture it meant I was willing to do anything for this person. Not surprisingly, I entered the area and my tongue soon found a home. As I showed my appreciation to her beauty and majesty, I felt as though I had given her my soul. Needless to say, I ground against the bed and came. More and more of the time, love-making between us was solely oral on my part. After a number of climaxes she would just roll over and it became my turn. The point of my rambling is that on the other side of your comment, I have found over the years that there are many professionals who would take my money, but few who understood what it meant to take what I was really offering. I'm not looking to be beaten, I'm searching for someone to take control. I've sort of given up on finding someone through the domination ads as they seem to be unfulfilling. I don't mind the money, in fact thinking of finding some woman who would use me financially as well as emotionally has a great appeal. But it is hard to find someone who understands the way to a man's soul is through his mind, perverted as he generally is.

SlaveSubtoserve -> RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) (7/20/2007 8:58:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne Hi Hope I am not repeating what others have said Yes, I agree there are some annoying characters in Ask A Mistress, both male and female. I try to skim over their self absorbed dross, but some threads get absolutely polluted with it I have been posting in similar places since 1998 and I don't see any major changes: 5 Some women here complain that most the men aren't really submissives. I agree. But I have even worse news for you. Most the women here are not really Dominants. Many people are just curious and good on them for coming and having a look. Its obvious from their posts they are vanillas and will never love and appreciate the Femdom dynamic. They are hellbent to change us into them - nice vanillas with a few fetish outfits in the wardrobe. This causes conflict. 6 Then there are the "Problem Dominas" . Respect really does have to be earned. There are some women posting here who ....truly....no heathy human being could like or respect. I sure don't. Why should the guys? Just because they identify as submissive? Rude and obnoxious women are..... rude and obnoxious! Call them dominant or not, they are really unlikeable. I wonder what kind of parents they must have had. ....again so insightful- am glad someone finally verbalized that and it was a true Domme to boot!

undergroundsea -> RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) (8/1/2007 10:05:05 PM)
Here are comments from another thread about how submissive men might use the I'm submissive but not your submissive line to excuse behavior that is otherwise rude. quote: ORIGINAL: undergroundsea The same point was raised in the thread that claimed that submissive men have a greater tendency to be jerks than do other people. I think this point would be easier to grasp if there are examples (examples of what might have occurred in prior posts, or a fictitious example that conveys the point). If I asked someone to show deference to me, then I can see such a retort (that that person is not submissive to me). If I objected to rude behavior, it is not clear to me how one could get away with such a retort. If somebody retorted in that manner, I would simply clarify that I am not asking for submission or show of deference but that the behavior is offensive with an explanation of why it is offensive. So I am having trouble seeing how one uses these words as an excuse to be rude. What I say does not mean this behavior has not or does not occur. Still, I am having trouble picturing the scenario. Cheers, Sea The context of my comments is behavior of male subs in the forums, which is because (1) I do not have data on behavior in emails and (2) there were explicit references in this thread to behavior of male subs in this forum. Upon reflection, I think how one perceives the culture in this forum is relevant. Some people on each side of the dynamic see there to be a great difference in status and a large power distance between dommes and subs in general. Some people see the interactions amongst forum participants to be like those between peers. And there is a continuum between these two types. I think this difference in perspective will affect how one feels about behavior here for a behavior that is appropriate between peers might not be so in a power distant context. I wonder if this point is relevant for the difference in perspective seen here about behavior of male subs. I have been actively participating in the forums for a few years and feel I have a reasonable sample of what is average behavior. I do not see a greater tendency for male subs to be rude, as suggested by the OP, in comparison to what is seen across all other roles and genders. I think all orientations of BDSM are distributed across population and one will see a corresponding sampling of behavior seen across the general population amongst the different orientations. What makes this discussion difficult for me is that the reference to rude behavior is vague and neither the OP nor others who agreed with the claim provided any clarification. Without knowing what metric is used or what are examples of behavior behind the claims, I cannot understand for myself how much or not this behavior occurs, and, with the metric that characterizes this behavior defined, how much or not the same behavior exists across other roles and genders. While I lean towards some degree of initial deference towards dommes, I see nothing that logically justifies anything beyond a peer to peer dynamic between forum participants if you take the roles out of the picture. Bringing the roles into the picture, whatever difference in status that is extended is voluntary or earned by virtue of how one feels about another (which encompasses supply and demand matters)--I don't think any random person can demand deference from another simply based on how the two identify with respect to sexual orientation and role preference. Cheers, Sea

interestingtimes -> RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) (8/1/2007 11:21:18 PM)
Well to risk a point whether you call it submission or dating you, should treat the woman the same, if my domme/gf lives along way away, Ill buy flowers or whatever because I love her..as no doubt she would do stuff for me...

interestingtimes -> RE: Submissive's Lib (or, submissive jerks) (8/1/2007 11:28:40 PM)
scratches head, sorry confused a little, do you mean that men should submit to women just because they are women ..rolmao... Sorry just dont get it, are you saying a man should just submit even to women that arnt dommes, thats illogical....

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