quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43
The important part here is informed consent which means the person giving consent is capable of making a decision about their own future and has been given all the relevant information needed to make that decision. Should I choose to do something risky once I learn about all the risks, you have the right to think less of me, but you have no right to 'save me from myself'.

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Wanna go to Wendys with me?  Nice day for a Frosty..

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ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

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ORIGINAL: velvetears

This isn't a "save the whales" message board. This isn't a "adopt a kid" message board.  This isn't a "non profit... help your fellow man" message board. This is a bdsm lifestyle message board so i am surprised you are amused to find posts that actually *gasp* deals with these kinds of issues. 

I can't see how you read my post since I never said I was surprised, I said this thread was FUNNY, which it is.

C~

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ORIGINAL: KatyLied
Yes, but only if you can accept the fact that I'm one of those weird people who enjoy the vanilla frosty!

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ORIGINAL: stella40

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ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Yes it is. The situation that I described did escalate to violence. He ripped the cell phone from her hand, smashed it on the ground and was shoving her around. She was crying and screaming for help. The camera panned out to show dozens of people walking by...none of them did a thing. Yes, that is apathetic.

In that case I agree with you. In fact I'd even go further and say those people were inhuman.

I would have intervened, but then again I see myself as a lady with balls.

quote:

Aileen68
Then you walk up to the hosts and tell them you are uncomfortable being in a place where chilren are exposed to bdsm items and then you leave.  You really have no right to do anything else beyond that.

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ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Then the scenario was completely different to the one first described.  I know it is a simple error to make, but it does make all the difference - private function in someones home Vs. picnic.
 
That comes down to the person whos home it is.  It is their responsibility and the parents to work on how things go.  You left - that was your choice.  But there is no way people should interfere on a private level like that.
Just because you (generic) may shelter your children (age irrelevant) from realities of different peoples, doesn't mean others do.  Children have to contend with PDAs and discussions of all different types at school and just walking down the street.  It really has nothing to do with wiitwd, just human decency or even personal ethics/morality really.
 
I have been to average barbeques or weddings and taken my children, and people talk about all manner of inappropriate (to me) things.  If it affects my children, I stand up and say - even leave.  No one can say that my ethics are 'wrong' just because they don't agree with me - it just means it's wrong for them.
 
Peace
the.dark.

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Basically that is what i ended up doing.  Some people are mandated child abuse reporters and when they see abuse they are required by law to report it or they risk loosing their license.  These parents talked about their ums witnessing bdsm (spanking, bondage, flogging) their parents engaged in. Let's say somehow this knowledge got to the authorities and they investigated it because they saw it as abuse and it was found out others were there who did not report it and were mandated to by law. 

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You're right you cannot shelter kids from everything but does that mean you then expose them to everything?  Your reasoning here makes no sense at all.  The "you should not intefer" position is why some kids end up dead because people didn't want to get involved.  Kids should be protected from abuse and those kids were being mentally abused

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ORIGINAL: mistoferin

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ORIGINAL: Celeste43
The important part here is informed consent which means the person giving consent is capable of making a decision about their own future and has been given all the relevant information needed to make that decision. Should I choose to do something risky once I learn about all the risks, you have the right to think less of me, but you have no right to 'save me from myself'.

I absolutely agree. The person disagreeing is entitled to form and even express their opinion....but as Domiguy said, if they choose to express it they should also be prepared to hear "mind your own business" or "fuck off" in response.

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ORIGINAL: KatyLied
Does anyone have a link to the abusive, mentally incompetent thread?  I missed that one.

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ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

velvetears
The "you should not intefer" position is why some kids end up dead because people didn't want to get involved.  Kids should be protected from abuse and those kids were being mentally abused

Is completely out of persective.  It is also has nothing to do wwiitwd - it has everything to do with 'life' in general. 
 

quote:

velvetears

wiitwd is part of life you cannot seperate it at your convenience. 

 Like I said before - it is a fine line.  What you talking about is plain in sight abuse and putting someones life at risk.  What I am talking about is raising someone to your own ethics/beliefs etc.  Fine line definately - but a line that is there.  You might think raising someone as a hindu is wrong - do you interfere?  I can't say they were being mentally abused because I only have your version of the tale(which was slightly misleading to begin with anyway). 
 

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velvetears

Using the word picnic instead of barbeque hardly constitutes being misleading.  If what you are saying was true and you can just raise kids to any ethical standard you want - then why can't certain perverts do certain things with um's - i don't want to spell it out more then that but i think you get the picture. There are laws in place so people don't cross a line with um's. 

 
 I can make only an assumption that information on who would be there and what was going to happen was poorly constructed.  But to actually make a claim that the children are being abused?  That is way to far out there for someone like you to surmise.   
 

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velvetears
Someone like me, would that mean someone who cares about protecting children or was that meant as a put down?  i was there, i saw, i heard, i was witness to it, i formed an opinion on all what my sensory perceptions told me and i got the hell out. Maybe you would have stayed and felt right at home, well those are your ethics, i don't share them.

 
My children see people in collars and leashes - not all of those people are BDSMers either.  In corsets.  In rubber.   They know the difference between a flogger and crop.  They know the difference between homosexuals and hetro - they know a poly family.  They know where babies come from!(shock/horror) Hell, one of my boys best friends at school who is 15 is gay(and openly so much to his credit).  So now they are by your mentality 'mentally abused'?  Just because they are well informed?         
 
 

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velvetears
i don't know your ums so i cannot make that judgement.  i do know i have worked in a field with um's and many had histories where they witnessed a lot of stuff they shouldn't and when this happens to them they become sexualized way to early in life and the repercussions are great, they suffer, their innocence in lost and many suffer emotional damage. 

 
People who automatically assume that if children and young adults are well informed - then that must mean they know the ins and outs of how to use a whip and be sexually 'aware' - even suffering abuse... THAT assumption says more about the person making the assumption than anything else - and would scare the hell out of me that people automatically think like that.  It just goes to show how little credit people give young adults and children and pushing their own reactions on others.             
 

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velvetears
There is a HUGE difference in being well informed and seeing your mom in a collar and leash, being beaten, with others involved as a daily routine.  A um in this household is being exposed to a way of life that they cannot possibly comprehend or process way to early. 

 
Let me ask you this - if you have children - did you spank them - tops of legs - backside?  Slap their hands when they do something wrong? Sit them on the 'naughty step'?  See to me and my personal ethics - that is all BDSM practises and something I would never do to my children because to me - it's part of wiitwd - how do you differentiate between these things in teaching your children huh?                                
 
 

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velvetears

i have ums and i never spanked them, that's not how i  wanted to raise my children but it's not because i think doing so would be practicing bdsm with them, that is ludicrous.   Funny but my philosopjhy in life is - let kids be kids, the world will encroach on them soon enough - enjoy childhood as long as you can, without selfish adults shoving stuff in your face they shouldn't.

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velvetears
Than let me ask you this - if it is your "ethics" cheating is wrong and people don't share those ethics then by your logic cheating is right as long as ethically they are ok with it for themselves? i wish people would be consistent across theboard and not just on what they feel passionate about.

Cheating is what you make of it hey.  I don't condem people for doing something like that and unless I know all the facts I wouldn;t make a comment unless asked - it's not my place in life.  Not everything is black and white and if it isn't affecting me, then I have no 'right' to interfer.  And personal responsibility is down to the individual - not to me - I don't want to save the world - I just desire to live.  Unlike you, I don't wish people to be anything other than what they are.  I don't have expectations people will follow a set route.  I don't believe in one true wayisms and people being consistant because moments and situations change - no two are the same and it would be boring if it was - and sickeningly predictable.  Passions change - so do ethics.
 
Peace
the.dark.                            
 
 

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Your wording in most of the posts you direct to me are condescending and hostile.  You and i differ on many points yet are really quite similar - just different pov's on how we interpret how to get there.  The part i bolded i believe also, to a point, but that to me would include allowing ums to be ums and not voyeurs of their parent's fetish lifestyle.  Would yours include allowing rapists to be rapists because that is how they want to live their life?  i would wish them to be other then what they are so we all can live in a safer society. 

 
 

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears
Your wording in most of the posts you direct to me are condescending and hostile.  You and i differ on many points yet are really quite similar - just different pov's on how we interpret how to get there.  The part i bolded i believe also, to a point, but that to me would include allowing ums to be ums and not voyeurs of their parent's fetish lifestyle.  Would yours include allowing rapists to be rapists because that is how they want to live their life?  i would wish them to be other then what they are so we all can live in a safer society. 
 

quote:

angelic
We 'see' things here daily.  Some, in my opinion are truly horrific, but if anyone stands against those things and speaks out, without fail there will be many others telling us it is none of our business, that as long as it is consentual it should be accepted. 

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velvetears
i was invited to a picnic.....One M/s couple brought their 2 um's they were maybe 10 and 12 somewhere in that range.  They were very open in their lifestyle in front of these kids and would openly talk in front of them as well. i was very uncomfortable and told them so, they did not recieve my input well.  i told them exaclty what i thought of them and removed myself, absolutely disgusted and would not speak to them thereafter when i saw them online.......Should have i done more - turned them in let's say? i don't know - maybe if i was more involved on a daily basis i would have - i didn't even know what town they were from etc.   i lost respect for the people who just accepted this as - oh well that's how they want to live their lives. 

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velvetears

those ums did not consent nor were they even near the age of consenting witness to the mother being flogged,caned, etc to be detrimental to those um's in a big way.......  i found it repugnent and child abuse.

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Aileen68
Then you walk up to the hosts and tell them you are uncomfortable being in a place where chilren are exposed to bdsm items and then you leave.  You really have no right to do anything else beyond that.

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velvetears

Basically that is what i ended up doing.  Some people are mandated child abuse reporters and when they see abuse they are required by law to report it or they risk loosing their license.  These parents talked about their ums witnessing bdsm (spanking, bondage, flogging) their parents engaged in. Let's say somehow this knowledge got to the authorities and they investigated it because they saw it as abuse and it was found out others were there who did not report it and were mandated to by law. 

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

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ORIGINAL: stella40

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ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Yes it is. The situation that I described did escalate to violence. He ripped the cell phone from her hand, smashed it on the ground and was shoving her around. She was crying and screaming for help. The camera panned out to show dozens of people walking by...none of them did a thing. Yes, that is apathetic.

In that case I agree with you. In fact I'd even go further and say those people were inhuman.

I would have intervened, but then again I see myself as a lady with balls.

I would not intervene personally other than to call the cops. I see no reason for two women to get the shit beat out of them, and yes i am a pussy when it comes to getting hit nonconsensually by people with anger management issues. I would also advise my son not to involve himself other than to call 9-11 with his cell phone. It is one thing to help someone, it is another thing to become a victim for someone... I am not about to become a victim for anyone (except my UM).

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ORIGINAL: Aileen68

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ORIGINAL: velvetears
Your wording in most of the posts you direct to me are condescending and hostile.  You and i differ on many points yet are really quite similar - just different pov's on how we interpret how to get there.  The part i bolded i believe also, to a point, but that to me would include allowing ums to be ums and not voyeurs of their parent's fetish lifestyle.  Would yours include allowing rapists to be rapists because that is how they want to live their life?  i would wish them to be other then what they are so we all can live in a safer society. 
 

You are comparing something that is illegal compared to something that is moral.  I as a parent wouldn't allow my children to see the ins and outs of this lifestyle.  That's a choice I make.  It isn't up to me to tell anyone else what to allow their children to have knowledge of.  If I don't like their house rules, I leave.