RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance end?

RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance end? (Full Version)

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Aileen68 -> RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance end? (6/19/2007 9:36:43 AM)
I'm still trying to figure out why you would want to compare an illegal activity as opposed to a domiguy example of eating poo. If you are talking about moral things, then keep the examples along the same line. No one is advocating rape because it's the nature of the rapist.

slaveluci -> RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance end? (6/19/2007 9:37:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs And the BIG ISSUE... the PRESSING ISSUE is people in a consentual relationship that may or may not be abused in this relationship that we only know about online. THIS is the issue that people get righteous and feel like they need to spend their time passively agressively discussing on a message board rather than actually talking to the Couple in Question? In my life, this is not the BIG or PRESSING ISSUE. It is simply what is being discussed here on this thread at this moment. Doesn't mean it's the most important issue in my life - just something I'm adding my 2 cents in about. I think the issue several folks are having with the particular case that has come up is that consent may not be possible. She voluntarily and specifically stated that she has been found "mentally incompetent" and is her master's "ward." If that is true then the issue here is is she even able to give consent to all the things she says she accepts. And, btw, it was she who has stated that some of what is done to her is unequivocably "abuse." She says she and her master know it is abuse and she accepts it as her lot to endure because he wants her to. I have no desire to talk to the "couple in question." For one thing, it is just online and he never posts as far as I know. Secondly, as she self-identifies as "mentally incompetent," I'm not sure how far reasonable discussion can go. Although....in the past, I have certainly tried to do so and questions have been ignored. Not to mention, different statements she has made have not "added up" to what I would describe as total honesty. I'm not saying they aren't true. I'm simply saying that there have been occasions where conflicting statements have been made where only one could have been true. Call it what you want to. I'm not self-righteous by any means and I'm certainly not passive-aggressive. She and I have admitted we certainly have many differences insofar as what we call a healthy relationship. Though we are at very different poles on most issues, I got to the point where I was finally able to agree to disagree with her and I meant it when I told her that if she's happy, I'm happy for her. However, when she volunteered the information that she has been found mentally incompetent, that changed my perception of the whole situation a bit. Am I going to take action to save her? Nope - really wouldn't know where to start if I wanted to and, despite her statement that she isn't mentally competent (at least in the eyes of the law), she seems content with her life as she describes it to all us posters out here in cyberspace. But, if all she says is true (that she's mentally incompetent and suffering abuse), I certainly don't think those who feel it is appropriate to somehow step in in such cases are that far off-base. I'm not saying they should, especially in this particular instance, I'm simply saying I can see how it might raise some concerns if one believes all that's been said.......slave luci

juliaoceania -> RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance end? (6/19/2007 9:45:32 AM)
quote: Julia there was nothing "accidental" about what these kids were experieencing on a daily basis. All people go through life being exposed to various experiences which teach them about the world and peoples different choices they make. But i stand firm in my belief that allowing your kids to witness your bdsm activities, and scening with other members of their circle of friends is wrong and abusive. These kids if you saw them looked strained and embaressed and all they did was incessently eat, i felt very sorry for them. I did not witness it, so I have no opinion about it, and I am not one to judge any other person based upon the internet quote: You say it's not illegal to talk about sex around kids - i challenge that and would say it probably is very much so illegal, depending of course on how it was presented (educational vs descriptive and lewd). so are off colored jokes out? How about families that are open about sexuality, are they going to have someone take their UMs? Can one only use "informational and educational" discourse when one is speaking to UMs about the "bird and the bees"? How about parents who take their kids to R rated movies with sexual themes, such as the secretary for example, do you think that their UMs should be taken away? The law is clear, we are allowed to expose our own kids to R rated movies as much as we like, and I have taken my UM to a few since he was about 9.. like saving private ryan, and shakespeare in love... omg he saw Gweneth Paltrow's tits[:-], he will be scarred forever! Now I dislike strongly when people expose little ones to things that are explicitly sexual, but I think the parent is the one that defines this, not you or me, as long as they are within the law on the matter. If you think these kids were being abused, you should have taken that up with local law enforcement, unless of course, you feared being judgmental... when it comes to UMs being damaged I have never feared getting involved if I thought there was cause... and I have in that past.

KatyLied -> RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance end? (6/19/2007 9:46:08 AM)
If we are talking about one adult adopting (or being guardian) another, perhaps in order for him to adopt her she had to be declared incompetent. Suddenly wishing I knew about adoption/guardianship requirements. The entire "incompetent" ruse may have been a device that was used in the proceeding but has no bearing in real life. Just a thought. It's nothing more bizarre than anything else we see here. spell edit

slaveluci -> RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance end? (6/19/2007 9:46:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs If this thread is about the broad scale issue then it definitely is about diagnosing abuse online, since the OP did say she saw things here (CM/Online) daily that were horrific. Again, no one is "diagnosing" anything. We are taking her at her own word. Also, saying you see things that are "horrific" does not mean you are saying they fit the definition of "abuse" and require intervention. I think scat play is horrific (to me, in my relationship) but I know people who do it and enjoy it. It's horrific for me but not abuse or worthy of intervention when people who enjoy it participate in it. Two separate things..........luci

domiguy -> RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance end? (6/19/2007 9:54:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears Julia there was nothing "accidental" about what these kids were experieencing on a daily basis. All people go through life being exposed to various experiences which teach them about the world and peoples different choices they make. But i stand firm in my belief that allowing your kids to witness your bdsm activities, and scening with other members of their circle of friends is wrong and abusive. These kids if you saw them looked strained and embaressed and all they did was incessently eat, i felt very sorry for them. You say it's not illegal to talk about sex around kids - i challenge that and would say it probably is very much so illegal, depending of course on how it was presented (educational vs descriptive and lewd). Here we go again...Another rant..... There are parents who let their young kids watch every type of movie that comes out on cable....From slasher flicks to slight porn.....Is this child abuse? Why didn't you call the cops or family services...You clearly stated that the kids were abused...get off of the computer and climb down from your soap box and call the cops...."What about the children?".....Do something!!...Please contact us as to how it all went down...And how much of your time you ended up wasting.

RCdc -> RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance end? (6/19/2007 9:56:04 AM)
I am unsure about your post - because it makes no sense to me at all. You made an earlier statement that you wished people would be consistant - yet your inconsistancy about wiitwd in one breath, then spliting it in another, makes no sense and doesn't hold up your own point. Ce la vie. I will say that when I stated that this has nothing to do with wwitwd, that it has everything to do with life - that is because not everyone does do what we do... so to put this just in terms of wiitwd seems a little naive to me. Life has ethics - some are personal - some are a given. If you saw a child losing weight, with bruises top to toe, screaming - crying through walls - whether you are in BDSM or not makes little difference. You (generic) would contact the authorities and let them deal with it if you cared and wanted peace of mind for yourself and for the child, dependant on your personal ethics, not because consent is all about wiitwd. (Don;t know if that makes things any clearer). 'Someone like you' was not a put down - it was meant just as it stands - someone like you. Someone like me can't make that decision either - because we aren't the police or an offical body - plain and simple. We are simply working on our own 'ethics'. Quite frankly, if your 'barbeque' was as bad as you are infering it to be, with children present in a private home where scening was occuring and sexual inuendo - I would have no problem in confronting the co-ordinators and asking what the hell they thought they were doing and then informing them I would take no part (as you did) and would be leaving and then make it known I was informing the authorities for them to come make their own judgement. I wouldn't have just left children in such a sordid position. I consider just leaving 'to get the hell out' without contacting appropriate authorities as apathy - if the scenario is as bad and as serious as you have indicated. I would do the same if I saw children consuming copious amounts of alchohol at a pub or in someones house etc. or saw children buying cigarettes etc. Even if I am wrong - reporting the people concerned is something I would do. If you feel my comments are condecending and hostile that is your responsibility. Maybe that sounds hostile too. It isn't supposed to be, but then, I try to see past the simple words and 'imagine' inflection. That you choose not to see past words indicates to me close mindedness IMO - because you are only seeing one way - your way. You don't know me from adam. You have no idea about my voice or how I speak and how these words come out from my mouth. But if you feel I am condecending, you wouldn't be the first. You probably won't be the last either - but that's life hey. I can't please everyone and be all for everyone. Nor do I want to be. Peace the.dark.

juliaoceania -> RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance end? (6/19/2007 9:59:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied If we are talking about one adult adopting (or being guardian) another, perhaps in order for him to adopt her she had to be declared incompetent. Suddenly wishing I knew about adoption/guardianship requirements. The entire "incompetent" ruse may have been a device that was used in the proceeding but has no bearing in real life. Just a thought. It's nothing more bizarre than anything else we see here. spell edit Now I know what the fuss is all about I read that post several times to see what the meaning was... It is unclear because she said that he was her father before her master... if it is a case that he had her declared mentally incompetent so that he could adopt her, and then make her his slave I would see this as unconsensual... if he adopted her after she became his slave so that he could legally "master" her in the sense that she can never leave because he has legal custody of her in the eyes of the state... weird, but not unconsensual... I will be the first one to admit that some of this poster's stories make me very uncomfortable... but as I said originally 1) we do not know she is who she says she is 2) we do not know where she really lives 3) all sorts of people claim all sorts of things over the internet.... and unless someone is willing to spend time and resources to track down the truth of the claims of this person... it is all just online, take it with a grain of salt (and it really is just pixels)

KatyLied -> RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance end? (6/19/2007 10:01:18 AM)
Julia, like you, many of things I read, I do wonder if they are real. That's one reason why I don't get freaked out too much when people start talking about their lives, because how much of it is real? edit to add...pixels? I thought it was all just words typed on a screen. [8D]

domiguy -> RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance end? (6/19/2007 10:02:28 AM)
If this is what this is all about? dadysprop? Out of thousands of threads we have found one person that deserves saving?....Wow! So much for "daily and horrific"....You rarely are going to change someone's opinion online...Put your energies where they might do some good.....Plant a tree, help at a soup kitchen or save the whales....Did you know that frogs are dissapearing at an alarming rate....Let's forget about helping consentual "sick" activities between two adults and concentrate our collective efforts to rejuvinating the population of our slimy amphibian friends......Frog legs........aaaaaaahhhhmhmhm!

domiguy -> RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance end? (6/19/2007 10:04:24 AM)
I live in an igloo.

Aileen68 -> RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance end? (6/19/2007 10:05:54 AM)
Poor poor frogs.

RCdc -> RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance end? (6/19/2007 10:06:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania .. it is all just online, take it with a grain of salt (and it really is just pixels) But julia, don't diss the pixels - coz I have always thought yours were mighty fine.[:)] Peace the.dark.

juliaoceania -> RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance end? (6/19/2007 10:09:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania .. it is all just online, take it with a grain of salt (and it really is just pixels) But julia, don't diss the pixels - coz I have always thought yours were mighty fine.[:)] Peace the.dark. aaawwww thank you, yours are even better.. especially the photo pixels that you have up. I think you and your man have the most erotic photos on CM... a new screen name... pixeljulia

KatyLied -> RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance end? (6/19/2007 10:09:53 AM)
quote: pixeljulia ::cough:: slavepixeljulia

juliaoceania -> RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance end? (6/19/2007 10:10:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied quote: pixeljulia ::cough:: slavepixeljulia pixelslavejulia?

domiguy -> RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance end? (6/19/2007 10:13:02 AM)
velvetears has not the ability to conduct an argument....So she compares rape to some activity that is a moral judgement as to it's acceptance....We have been done this road before.....There are no right answers aside from he ones I have offered up. What about the frogs?!!!!...What about the frogs?!!!

RCdc -> RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance end? (6/19/2007 10:13:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied quote: pixeljulia ::cough:: slavepixeljulia pixelslavejulia? How about - Julia : Pixelslave! (Sounds like a screenplay for a rather sordid movie....[;)]) Whoo-hoo! Peace the.dark.

domiguy -> RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance end? (6/19/2007 10:15:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied quote: pixeljulia ::cough:: slavepixeljulia pixelslavejulia? How about - Julia : Pixelslave! (Sounds like a screenplay for a rather sordid movie....[;)]) Whoo-hoo! Peace the.dark. I'm going to make every child see this movie.

RCdc -> RE: When is enough, enough…..or where does acceptance end? (6/19/2007 10:15:41 AM)
Frogs! - Will somebody think of the Frogs! (Sorry - thats the best I can come up with without chocolate) Peace the.dark.

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