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Help me to understand your mind - 6/17/2007 3:34:40 AM   
HypnoticDan


Posts: 463
Joined: 5/23/2007
Status: offline 		As a dom, I have no problem giving orders or rewards. Having said that: To me, any kind of physical violence, even if it is desired by the recipient, is a punishment. So what I want to ask is: how does it make you feel good to be spanked/caned/whatever? I feel that if I understood this better I would be better able to put myself in the mind of my pet and better deal out these... treatments I understand some will say "just making master happy is all that matters and if that's what it takes, that's what it takes." but something about that doesn't ring true to me. It feels... alien. A wrongness, if you will. Probably because I'm not a sub. I dunno - maybe it's a catch-22: if I just "go with the flow" I'll do it too much, and if I keep overanalyzing it then I'll always do it too little.

Please, tell me your thoughts.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Help me to understand your mind - 6/17/2007 4:13:51 AM   
Einzelganger


Posts: 221
Joined: 4/8/2007
From: Orlando, FL
Status: offline 		I don't know if you're specifically looking for a M/f response, but if a response from the F/m point of view will work, then here goes...

I love correction.  Random spanking, caning, whatever, is fine if she wants to do it, but the only type I truly desire, and need, is correction.  If there's something I do wrong, be it through action or inaction, I need her to take corrective action.  If she's in charge, and she lays down the rules, and I break said rules, I need to be disciplined.  It shows me that she loves me and cares about my doing the right thing, and it improves me, especially when it's followed by her reinforcing that with a quiet talk.  It means the world to me.  I don't misbehave for the sake of being punished, but I need her to be that guiding hand to me, and if corporal punishent is what's required, then so be it.  Just my $0.02...

-Einzelgänger

(in reply to HypnoticDan)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Help me to understand your mind - 6/17/2007 4:52:28 AM   
denika


Posts: 619
Joined: 8/30/2005
Status: offline 		Is your pet a masochist? If not then  pain is probably something you best leave alone.  Everyone is going to see heavy play (anything that cause marks/pain)-I'll use that term loosely for now--diffrently. For me personally, pain as punishment would be detrimental.

In the relationship I have with my Top, pain is a reward,  He is a Sadist, I'm a masochist so it works.  I don't like  all types of pain, trust me  Dentists freak me out and  I revert to a five year old if I get a spinter...but.... in play, in that time that he looks at me and I know I'm his toy that is when the pain of a cane hitting me with enough force to split skin or  a flogger  leaving bruises, the pain is delicious, it becomes intertwined with pleasure.. Yes it hurts and I scream and I don't 'endure' it because he wants me too, the pain is a gift I share with him. It strips me down to my most base of emotions and reactions. In those moment there is only sensation and reaction/action. At times there are toys used on me I don't like, infact i will down right hate them, but it is still not a punishment.

Your comment about  the 'wrongness of it' sounds pretty judgemental, as if you have already made up your mind-it doesn't make a diffrence  how you identify wether sub or Dom... Do you feel that any who say  "just making Master happy" to quate you are being abused? 

It might be 'wrong' for you but right for others like myself.  And yes, I'm there for his entertainment not to pick and choose just what sensations I like. As my husband Rob likes to remind me 'It's not about what I want but what he wants'..  But that is why I am a masochistic bottom...I love it. I have had people approach  us, Rob had to do spin control at one public event after a fellow submissive  felt 'traumatized' by watching our play, he swore I was being tortured...Well I was but in a good way! Not everything in this lifestyle is going to work for everyone this is where tolerance and  non-judgmental  attitudes become important.. If pain doesn't work for you in a possitive way, reconsider  what you are doing,   I have heard a few Dom's( master/Top/Daddy-pic a favorite label) who say they feel terrible guilt after letting their inner Sadist out...That is something I don't understand..why would you do something that makes you feel guilty--trust me your partner will pick up on it and it's not going to be fun for anyone.

I'm a pain slut, it is part of who I am....... Ironicly enough  things like wax and fire play  give me simular internal reactions to how you feel about pain... I don't get the thrill in it, but  the diffrence is I don't think those who like it are "Wrong"  


denika

(in reply to HypnoticDan)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Help me to understand your mind - 6/17/2007 5:47:09 AM   
lilacs


Posts: 46
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline 		Do I take physical pain only for him?  Hell no!  I *like* it.  It makes me feel good.  If it didn't make me feel good, I wouldn't do it.

Taking pain satisfies specific desires that I have: the need to submit and the need to be dominated.  While the pain itself might not be something that I like - I'm not a masochist per se - it satisfies a need.  That feels good at a very viseral level.  Again, we submissives wouldn't do things that didn't somehow fulfill something within us.  I might hate a certain activity, but I still do so willingly because he requires it and doing it satisfies my need to submit.  What feels to me as "light pain" (which I've found out I have more of a pain tolerance than I thought I did) simply feels "intense" to me when I'm put into the right headspace.  Where one person might feel happiness and relaxed with a long massage as foreplay to sex or something like that, I love the feeling of a long deliberate flogging.  Strength of a dominant partner is sexy to me - hence the physical manifestation of that strength in physical form (flogging, spankings, paddling, caning, etc.) is sexy.

Remember - these are just my reactions and my reasons - and ask ten submissives for their reasons on craving submission to a dominant partner and you will get far more than twenty answers. ;)

(in reply to denika)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Help me to understand your mind - 6/17/2007 6:07:39 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Some people just like impact play; they enjoy it and it makes them feel good.  It is like asking why does someone like chocolate and another person doesn't.  Personally, I prefer the impact plays that don't involve toys like punching and kicking.  I get such a rush out of being punched, slapped or kicked by him and it takes me to a very primal place inside my mind.

The other types of impact plays I sometimes enjoy and sometimes only endure them for his pleasure.  They can be very cathartic, strip me bare emotionally and mentally and can be such a vulnerable and emotional experience that it brings us closer together.  I don't get pleasure from something just because he does but I do get a great satisfaction out of enduring what brings him pleasure, that he does not have to hold back with me and that he can just take what he wants.

Impact play can tear down all the walls and leave me feeling very vulnerable.  It is a state of mind that I enjoy and can be very cathartic and freeing if channeled in the right way.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to HypnoticDan)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Help me to understand your mind - 6/17/2007 6:20:17 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		never mind... answered my own question

< Message edited by kyraofMists -- 6/17/2007 6:27:07 AM >

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to denika)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Help me to understand your mind - 6/17/2007 7:54:04 AM   
sambamanslilgirl


Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HypnoticDan

As a dom, I have no problem giving orders or rewards. Having said that: To me, any kind of physical violence, even if it is desired by the recipient, is a punishment. So what I want to ask is: how does it make you feel good to be spanked/caned/whatever?


spankings are not effective as a punishment for me because i crave it too much ...so Daddy uses other forms of punishment to correct my behavior when bad which work better than a simple paddling/flogging on my ass.


_____________________________

...2011 - year of the fabulous rock star life ...and i do it so well...


...announcing Mr. & Mrs. British Petrol ...yeah, marrying into oil is slick business...

(in reply to HypnoticDan)
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RE: Help me to understand your mind - 6/17/2007 8:18:04 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

It feels... alien. A wrongness, if you will.


I know that feeling and it took me years to get over it.  Spend enough time watching women beg for it, women who you knew before or get to know afterward and after a while the social conditioning of "its wrong to grab a woman's cunt and dig your fingernails in till she screams in agony" goes away and you realize with the right woman, there is nothing more loving you could do to her.

Try this experiment.  Do a guided fantasy and play the role of sadist verbally with her, see her reaction.  If it starts making your cock hard, you have some learning to do, if not, keep on doing what you are doing.

(in reply to HypnoticDan)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Help me to understand your mind - 6/17/2007 8:27:29 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HypnoticDan

I understand some will say "just making master happy is all that matters and if that's what it takes, that's what it takes." but something about that doesn't ring true to me. It feels... alien. A wrongness, if you will. Probably because I'm not a sub.


Absolutes are rarely accurate.... when I hear a comment as you suggest... I consider if someone is stating as a matter of absolute.  Generally, if said as such, I would share this wrongness that you refer too.

However, if it is more specific...  such as... within a context of play.. well there is many that take and endure alot of things for the pleasure of their Top.  Hell, there is even some Tops that will do alot for the pleasure of the bottom.  This is not wrong.  In a large extent.. people do things things for the betterment of the relationship.  Sad state of affairs if the individuals only do the things they get personal enjoyment from.  Somehow, I don't think you will see to many relationships like that.

Tell me... do you enjoy going to the dentist.... mmmmmmm but I bet you still go don't you.  You go.. becuase it's good for you .... well at least that is what they say.  Sometimes we do things in our relationships for the same motivations.  It's good for the relationship.

I have said this before... In any relationship.. we do things that we Enjoy..  we do things that we are Indifferent too... we do things that we tolerate.  Within any relationship to be successful... there needs to be a proper balance for all those involved.  If we are doing to many thngs that we just tolerate... well we are not going to be happy and the relationship will suffer.  If we are doing only the things we enjoy.. well.. I have to wonder what the partner is getting.  I suspect that are out of balance in what they are getting.

I don't believe in the Give and Take from a Relationship.  I believe in the Give and Receive from a relationship.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to HypnoticDan)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Help me to understand your mind - 6/17/2007 8:57:45 AM   
BossyShoeBitch


Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HypnoticDan

As a dom, I have no problem giving orders or rewards. Having said that: To me, any kind of physical violence, even if it is desired by the recipient, is a punishment. So what I want to ask is: how does it make you feel good to be spanked/caned/whatever? I feel that if I understood this better I would be better able to put myself in the mind of my pet and better deal out these... treatments I understand some will say "just making master happy is all that matters and if that's what it takes, that's what it takes." but something about that doesn't ring true to me. It feels... alien. A wrongness, if you will. Probably because I'm not a sub. I dunno - maybe it's a catch-22: if I just "go with the flow" I'll do it too much, and if I keep overanalyzing it then I'll always do it too little.

Please, tell me your thoughts.


"Don't move."

i hooked the first digit of each finger under the edge of her knickers and traced the edge, first at the waist around to her belly, then from her hip bones around to the damp patch in the center, slowly pulling it back to let the breeze in. She shifted her weight as if to bring her legs together for me to remove the impediment.

*SMACK* It wasn't hard, it wasn't planned, but it got her attention.

"I said: Don't. move."
 
...and you know the rest of that story of course... 
for some subs, just that much is hot as hell..  Doesnt have to be anything extreme.
Many times, it's not even what's done at the moment.  It's later, alone or together, thinking or talking about it and it gives you that endorphin rush all over again...

Did smacking her feel alien to you?

< Message edited by BossyShoeBitch -- 6/17/2007 8:58:37 AM >

_____________________________

A clever man can get out of situations a wise man never gets into...
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

(in reply to HypnoticDan)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Help me to understand your mind - 6/17/2007 9:00:08 AM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline 		Oh no no no you dont want into my mind!!!! You might never get out.. ask Master LOL


Magik's crazy slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to BossyShoeBitch)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Help me to understand your mind - 6/17/2007 9:46:59 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Interesting question...I have a love/hate relationship with pain.  I hate it when I'm receiving it, yet as soon as he stops I am craving more.  I've come to the conclusion it is not the pain that I love, but what it represents to me - His power, his control, his authority, and my absolute vulnerability to him.  When he strikes me with his belt, it HURTS, damnit!  And all I want is for that horrible cutting sting to stop.  And yet I love it.  I love that he'll do it, despite that it hurts like hell.  I love that he doesn't care that it hurts, and tells me to be quiet when I cry out, and tells me to be still and take it.   I love that I have no choice but to feel pain if he wants me to feel it, and to not protest it. 

And when he is finished, I love that he lets me wrap myself up around his feet, and he pets my head, and that for days, even weeks, I will have lasting marks on my skin to remember the moment.  He knows how I love the marks, and gives them to me as a gift.

One doesn't have to be a masochist to want to enjoy or endure pain.  In my case, it is a way for me to feel my smallness to him, and feel close to him.  If he denied us both this because of a preconceived notion that it was "wrong" (where did that come from, anyway?), we would both be missing out on a wonderful element of our relationshp.

(in reply to HypnoticDan)
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RE: Help me to understand your mind - 6/17/2007 10:00:45 AM   
imthatacheyouhav


Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline 		I love the surrender of it...its a way for me to communicate what i can't put in to words....that i'm laid out...completely at Master mercy and He has TOTAL control of my body mind and spirit.....its one way for me to try to show how much i love and trust Him...and how much i want to continually surrender to Him. Its very emotional for me personally

_____________________________

*if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything*
**collared July 22 2007 by LordKen**

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Help me to understand your mind - 6/17/2007 10:01:48 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I do not know what to say other than you would probably not be a very good match for a masochist if I am understanding your post correctly.

I thought I would also add, some dominants are masochists too, so this is not a "sub" thing.


I am a masochist. I embrace this aspect of myself, enjoy it, and love sharing this with my Daddy. He is not a sadist in that he can take it or leave it, does not require masochism in his submissive, but he rather enjoys my responses to pain, so he gives it to me... punishment is not a part of our relationship.. end of story, but he does beat me, and I treasure each beating as a special bonding experience... but I cannot "explain" it to you, I would suggest you look up threads on masochism and subspace for further understanding... it might be helpful.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to HypnoticDan)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Help me to understand your mind - 6/17/2007 10:06:39 AM   
HypnoticDan


Posts: 463
Joined: 5/23/2007
Status: offline 		Thank you all for your responses.

Denika - it's absolutely judgemental and I know it. That's why I'm trying to do something about it. Think of it as a very paradoxical version of sensitivity training. :)

SimplyMichael - I see your point. I can easily imagine someone begging for it. Perhaps it is a problem of instinct - I've always based my next move in a large part on the reaction of my partner. So if she's pleading for me to stop I naturally feel the urge to stop. Yes, of course it's SSC and she hasn't said ths safe word. I guess that's why I'm a novice master and you are not - I keep thinking she will instinctively yell 'stop' because she's in a panic and has forgotten that what she means is 'snufalupagus' (or whatever the safe word is)

BossyShoeBitch - No, it didn't, but I'd been spanked that hard before and knew how it felt. So far everything I've ever done to a sub I tried on myself first so that I could guage intensity, etc. I'm not going to let someone tie me up and beat me.

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Help me to understand your mind - 6/17/2007 11:50:56 AM   
WillowRain


Posts: 191
Joined: 6/18/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HypnoticDan

As a dom, I have no problem giving orders or rewards. Having said that: To me, any kind of physical violence, even if it is desired by the recipient, is a punishment. So what I want to ask is: how does it make you feel good to be spanked/caned/whatever? I feel that if I understood this better I would be better able to put myself in the mind of my pet and better deal out these... treatments I understand some will say "just making master happy is all that matters and if that's what it takes, that's what it takes." but something about that doesn't ring true to me. It feels... alien. A wrongness, if you will. Probably because I'm not a sub. I dunno - maybe it's a catch-22: if I just "go with the flow" I'll do it too much, and if I keep overanalyzing it then I'll always do it too little.

Please, tell me your thoughts.


Well, here is one answer from a masochist. Intense sensation would never be a good punishment for me. I thrive on intensity, love the heart pounding, endorphin raging moments between my Sir and I. The dance between what he can give and what I can take is delicious to me, and I love dancing along those borders. Everyone has differant lines along what is sensation and what is "bad pain/only pain."

You don't have to be sadistic to be a good dominant. It's all about matching geranimal tags. If you put a zebra with a zebra (as far as desires go), life is good. If you put a llama with an otter (pain slut with a dominant with utterly no desire to be sadistic) then you may have problems. When I began seriously looking, one of the things on my list was that the other person be comfortable being rough with me, or inflicting pain, even if I was good and sweet, that they would feel utterly no guilt or qualm in hurting me. I am quite prone to telling my Sir that I love him when he is hurting my person. I am so greatful that he is comfortable being at a certain intensity level that is comfortable for me.

(in reply to HypnoticDan)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Help me to understand your mind - 6/17/2007 1:09:32 PM   
GeekyGirl


Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

Interesting question...I have a love/hate relationship with pain.  I hate it when I'm receiving it, yet as soon as he stops I am craving more.  I've come to the conclusion it is not the pain that I love, but what it represents to me - His power, his control, his authority, and my absolute vulnerability to him.  When he strikes me with his belt, it HURTS, damnit!  And all I want is for that horrible cutting sting to stop.  And yet I love it.  I love that he'll do it, despite that it hurts like hell.  I love that he doesn't care that it hurts, and tells me to be quiet when I cry out, and tells me to be still and take it.   I love that I have no choice but to feel pain if he wants me to feel it, and to not protest it. 

And when he is finished, I love that he lets me wrap myself up around his feet, and he pets my head, and that for days, even weeks, I will have lasting marks on my skin to remember the moment.  He knows how I love the marks, and gives them to me as a gift.

One doesn't have to be a masochist to want to enjoy or endure pain.  In my case, it is a way for me to feel my smallness to him, and feel close to him.  If he denied us both this because of a preconceived notion that it was "wrong" (where did that come from, anyway?), we would both be missing out on a wonderful element of our relationshp.


Wow...that was just absolutely beautiful (and hot as hell too for some reason.) I feel as you do...I couldn't have explained it any better.


_____________________________

"It's nothing that I understand, but when in your arms you have complete power over me. So be gentle if you please, 'cause your hands are in my hair, but my heart is in your teeth and it makes me want to make you near me always."

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Help me to understand your mind - 6/17/2007 1:31:09 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Dan

quote:

  SimplyMichael -  So if she's pleading for me to stop I naturally feel the urge to stop.


Okay, you pass the sanity test!

quote:

  SimplyMichael -  I guess that's why I'm a novice master and you are not -


Thanks for the compliment and while in some ways you are correct, in others you are not.  I have a new partner and I have to feel my way around the edges.  Experience tells me where they might be and sometimes they are smaller and sometimes bigger than I think they are.  Sometimes I push lightly and go to far, sometimes I throw caution to the wind, throw my back into it and SWISH, she isn't even affected.  With each new partner you start over on some level, especially if the relationship is authentic and not a cookie cutter imitation of one.

quote:

  SimplyMichael - I keep thinking she will instinctively yell 'stop' because she's in a panic and has forgotten that what she means is 'snufalupagus' (or whatever the safe word is)  


I bet you already have the skills to spot when stop means "shove the fucking thing in deeper and faster and violate me" and when stop means "please stop and just hold me till I catch my breath"  Use the force luke...trust yourself a bit, talk to your partner so that she knows you don't know where the edge is, make sure she understand and has the skills to say "gee that didn't work" rather than "what the fuck kind of monster ARE you?" 

quote:

  
BossyShoeBitch - No, it didn't, but I'd been spanked that hard before and knew how it felt. So far everything I've ever done to a sub I tried on myself first so that I could guage intensity, etc. I'm not going to let someone tie me up and beat me.


WRONG, you knew how it felt on YOU.  Find three woman and try the same spank on all three, dig a finger in and see how differently each responded.  They didn't feel the same thing.  Look at caning, there are women who are cane SLUTS who don't even wake up till you raise welts.  What you consider a beating, they consider a boring fluffy mild warmup. 

Just like going down on a woman varies from woman to woman, some want it soft, others hard, some want it slow, others fast, and some want well more, more pain, more penetration, more whatever.  Point is that the percieved experience varies greatly and the only thing "trying something on yourself" does is give you an idea of the level of itensity potential so you can then decide on how hard to use it on a given person  based on how THEY will experience it. 

(in reply to HypnoticDan)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Help me to understand your mind - 6/17/2007 1:36:20 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl
Wow...that was just absolutely beautiful (and hot as hell too for some reason.) I feel as you do...I couldn't have explained it any better.



Thank you, GeekyGirl, that was very kind to say :)

(in reply to GeekyGirl)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Help me to understand your mind - 6/17/2007 1:52:45 PM   
Viridana


Posts: 754
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HypnoticDan

As a dom, I have no problem giving orders or rewards. Having said that: To me, any kind of physical violence, even if it is desired by the recipient, is a punishment. So what I want to ask is: how does it make you feel good to be spanked/caned/whatever? I feel that if I understood this better I would be better able to put myself in the mind of my pet and better deal out these... treatments I understand some will say "just making master happy is all that matters and if that's what it takes, that's what it takes." but something about that doesn't ring true to me. It feels... alien. A wrongness, if you will. Probably because I'm not a sub. I dunno - maybe it's a catch-22: if I just "go with the flow" I'll do it too much, and if I keep overanalyzing it then I'll always do it too little.

Please, tell me your thoughts.

I can only tell you what I experience through pain. I'm a masochist. And whenever I'm put through certain stimuli the dopamine circuits in my brain become a superhighway. I sense pain, but the results are pleasure. Whether I'm "incorrectly wired" up there, I can't answer. And quite frankly, I don't care.

For instance. Ever since I was a young child I've used my fingernails to sqeeze into my gingiva (hope I spellt it right) because it just feels soooooo good. Of course it would end that I would bleed but the lasting, pulsating pain was heavenly.

My relationship doesn't involve d/s so pain isn't used as a punishment nor reward. But I can totally understand how with d/s type masochists, pain would be a difficult thing to use as a punishment tool.

(in reply to HypnoticDan)
Profile   Post #: 20
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