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Topping From the Bottom - 6/20/2007 6:45:24 AM

chrisy

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What, exactly, is topping from the bottom? i suspect i am guilty of this and cannot see a way around it. Is wanting, and enjoying, the challenge of someone very strict setting myself (and them) up for failure?

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RE: Topping From the Bottom - 6/20/2007 7:03:14 AM

LadyHeart

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You seem to be popping up all over with your "debates" - sorry, but you seem to be here studying for a thesis or something, as you dont seem to have any real knowledge of or interest in BDSM apart from the academic
:))
LH

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RE: Topping From the Bottom - 6/20/2007 7:20:51 AM

chrisy

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sorry you feel that way. please feel free to NOT read or reply to any of my posts. this may make it easier for us both :)

< Message edited by chrisy -- 6/20/2007 7:42:05 AM >

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RE: Topping From the Bottom - 6/20/2007 7:48:31 AM

imthatacheyouhav

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you didnt see this EXACT same thread topic in the General BDSM discussion ?.....LOL...amazing

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RE: Topping From the Bottom - 6/20/2007 7:50:44 AM

chrisy

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no i did not. sorry. i do not own a computer so what i did was make a list of questions and ask. i have a time limit on here, so while i would LOVE to sit and read through all the posts, it's not possible for me at this time.

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RE: Topping From the Bottom - 6/20/2007 8:08:40 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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hi Chrisy,

Given your time constraints, I DEFINITELY recommend you use the "search" function to find old threads on your questions. It will be a lot more efficient than just randomly popping up threads.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_779482/mpage_1/key_topping%252Cbottom/tm.htm#779640
Are you guilty of topping from the bottom?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_556153/mpage_1/key_topping%252Cbottom/tm.htm#556372
Is this topping from the bottom?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_553744/mpage_1/key_topping%252Cbottom/tm.htm#553800
Topping from the bottom?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_427745/mpage_1/key_topping%252Cbottom/tm.htm#428489
Topping from the bottom...

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RE: Topping From the Bottom - 6/20/2007 8:14:58 AM

chrisy

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thank you! and i will! i am new to this forum and not quite sure how to navigate it! but i certainly will learn and hopefully that my annoyance level will drop! ha.

this is my my first day posting (besides two posts from 2 years ago!)

and if the consensus is that i shut up, i will! no big deal!

< Message edited by chrisy -- 6/20/2007 8:15:54 AM >

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RE: Topping From the Bottom - 6/20/2007 8:30:30 AM

Stephann

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http://www.collarchat.com/m_1088321/tm.htm

That's the current running 'Topping from the Bottom' link

Asking questions is always welcome. I know what you're going through; I spent almost the past three years on a time limit, visiting cyber cafes (little shops you go into and pay for every 15 minutes of using their computers for internet time) to be online.

Stephan

< Message edited by Stephann -- 6/20/2007 9:01:22 AM >

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RE: Topping From the Bottom - 6/20/2007 8:32:55 AM

Kinkypupper

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Its when the "bottom" controls the scene, Not the "TOP"
as in..
no do not hit me there hit me here, No thats to soft harder, I'm tired are you done yet... etc...

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RE: Topping From the Bottom - 6/20/2007 1:39:14 PM

crouchingtigress

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chrissy you and your questions are welcome here...if folks dont want to read them they can ignor them but honestly i like old questions answered with fresh answers....and i like having some one who is open to new ideas asking them.

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RE: Topping From the Bottom - 6/20/2007 1:43:01 PM

texancutie

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Why on earth is everyone so pissy? Not everyone lives their lives online, and reads every single thread. I bet everything has already been covered in the forums. So therefore everything is a repeat question for the most part. Sorry you got a few unpleasant responses chrisy.

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RE: Topping From the Bottom - 6/21/2007 8:42:01 AM

slaveish

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Topping from the bottom can be overt, as in "Don't do that, do this instead" or it can be more subtle, the sub or bottom getting his or her wishes and desires met by acting in a passive-aggressive way, or acting bratty, pouting, having temper tantrums until the D- or M-type gives in (some will some of the time, some won't any of the time). In short, it is the s-type trying to control the dynamic.

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RE: Topping From the Bottom - 6/21/2007 8:59:24 AM

vield

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You have some very good answers here chrisy.

Please keep in mind that what one person objects to in a partner in their own relationships, another person may find very pleasing.

You need to determine that which truly works for you, and whatever this is may not fit a definition in a book.

Some dominants want feisty partners, people who struggle with them. Others like more the doormat type of sub. there are many variations.

A fair number of women come to the BD/SM scene expecting to be submissive because this is how they were raised. Sometimes a woman's powerful reactions are expressions of a degree of personal dominance she may not have suspected she has.

Whatever is right for you IS what you need to pursue. No one else can decide that for you. You also may find that what you need changes as your experience level rises.

As long as all involved are adults knowingly consenting to whatever happens, have fun!

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RE: Topping From the Bottom - 6/21/2007 2:40:13 PM

NControlofU

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Same here. There's always something new to learn.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

chrissy you and your questions are welcome here...if folks dont want to read them they can ignor them but honestly i like old questions answered with fresh answers....and i like having some one who is open to new ideas asking them.

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RE: Topping From the Bottom - 6/21/2007 3:39:41 PM

Evlgryn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: texancutie

Why on earth is everyone so pissy? Not everyone lives their lives online, and reads every single thread. I bet everything has already been covered in the forums. So therefore everything is a repeat question for the most part. Sorry you got a few unpleasant responses chrisy.

Well "pissy" is in the eye of the beholder. There are few threads that don't have a precedent, and that "Lucky Albatross" can't find a footnote for.

I have come to think of her as the helpful (unpaid) librarian that helps you line up your research and bibliography

It is a good idea for someone seeking answers to do a search for all the available data, not a bad suggestion. Otherwise it is catch as catch can and the advice will be dependant upon the quality of folk online at that particular moment. And there seems to be little consistency on this point.

As for making a research project necessary before someone new speaks her mind. Shame on you all, if that is what you really meant. Of course I have been here a while and am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

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RE: Topping From the Bottom - 6/21/2007 6:43:29 PM

angelic

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hi chrisy, my definition of 'topping from the bottom', is a dominant type person says 'you are topping from the bottom' when the dominant type person cannot, for whatever reason assert, his/her control over you. Instead of trying to find out what the problem may be, they simply use this as an excuse to blame the submissive/slave type person. (Just my opinion). :)

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RE: Topping From the Bottom - 6/22/2007 3:52:55 AM

Focus50

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chrisy

What, exactly, is topping from the bottom? i suspect i am guilty of this and cannot see a way around it. Is wanting, and enjoying, the challenge of someone very strict setting myself (and them) up for failure?

Try this....

A D/s relationship is based on an unequal control dynamic (as opposed to an egalitarian vanilla relationship) where the submissive defers to the will and choices of the dominant partner by mutual agreement. IE, within your personal relationship, the submissive you does as you're told.

"Topping from the bottom" (tftb) can manifest in many forms - "attitude", brattiness, general disrespect or to outright rebellion etc. This is generally recognised as the sub taking control of the relationship (even if only for a few seconds at a time) and is definitely NOT how a D/s relationship is designed to function. Consequently, when the sub does have even a small level of control in this way, usually both Dom/me and sub are miserable for it, esp if it's systemic.

To me, a bit of occasional tftb from my girl is quite enjoyable as it allows me to be a reactive Dom as well as my usual proactive. It's an opportunity to enforce my will over hers; to pull her into line; to remind her of her place etc. Think about it; I can't very well discipline her etc if she's done nothing wrong. It's also an opportunity for her to initiate a D/s dynamic, too. I mean, anytime I'm in the mood, I can just reach over and do whatever I want with/to her whereas a bit of cheek or disrespect can be her way of "inviting attention" beyond the normal avenues of her asking repectfully. And I toy with her through it; sometimes I might miss some small act of her disrespect altogether (we're all human) but mostly I'll deliberately let it pass just to see what she does with that bit of empowerment - enough rope to "hang" herself, so to speak, before I eventually "drop the hammer" on her.

Enough waffling.... lol To answer your question, it is NOT up to the submissive to control some alleged need to control her "toppiness"! The dominant has control - or should have - it's *HIS* problem and obligation to control you! If the sub is doing it all the time (tftb), I'd suggest you're not compatible with the Dom you have, that you need someone a little stricter etc. By it's very definition, *somone* needs to have control in a D/s relationship and if the Dom/me is unable or unwilling to do so, it's *inevitable* the sub will - and both are rendered miserable.

In a perfect World, the only thing a sub gets away with is what the dominant allows. If you (the sub) can get away with more or too much, it's the fault of the *dominant*!

Focus.

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RE: Topping From the Bottom - 6/22/2007 5:24:20 AM

slaveish

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Focus, as usual you have posted a magnificent answer. It fans my submissive flame. ~friendly grin~

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If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

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RE: Topping From the Bottom - 6/22/2007 7:02:56 AM

jimbo747

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

Try this....

A D/s relationship is based on an unequal control dynamic (as opposed to an egalitarian vanilla relationship) where the submissive defers to the will and choices of the dominant partner by mutual agreement. IE, within your personal relationship, the submissive you does as you're told.

"Topping from the bottom" (tftb) can manifest in many forms - "attitude", brattiness, general disrespect or to outright rebellion etc. This is generally recognised as the sub taking control of the relationship (even if only for a few seconds at a time) and is definitely NOT how a D/s relationship is designed to function. Consequently, when the sub does have even a small level of control in this way, usually both Dom/me and sub are miserable for it, esp if it's systemic.

..... it is NOT up to the submissive to control some alleged need to control her "toppiness"! The dominant has control - or should have - it's *HIS* problem and obligation to control you! If the sub is doing it all the time (tftb), I'd suggest you're not compatible with the Dom you have, that you need someone a little stricter etc. By it's very definition, *somone* needs to have control in a D/s relationship and if the Dom/me is unable or unwilling to do so, it's *inevitable* the sub will - and both are rendered miserable.

In a perfect World, the only thing a sub gets away with is what the dominant allows. If you (the sub) can get away with more or too much, it's the fault of the *dominant*!

Focus.

I am in agreement.

< Message edited by jimbo747 -- 6/22/2007 7:03:48 AM >

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RE: Topping From the Bottom - 6/23/2007 8:17:04 AM

CitizenCane

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chrisy

Is wanting, and enjoying, the challenge of someone very strict setting myself (and them) up for failure?

This, in itself, doesn't constitute topping from the bottom, it's just an expression of desire. As for setting yourself up for failure, that depends on a couple of factors- is what is demanded of you actually doable? Is the 'learning curve' appropriate for you? How do you define 'failure'? There are certainly doms that deliberately make subs fail at specific tasks- some just for cruelty, others as part of a 'learning experience', to 'take the sub down a notch,' etc.
I had a trainee once who was very proud of her capacity for pain- obnoxiously so. It was not a challenge for her to hold still for a sound paddling, which was all she'd experienced. She was dismissive about an a light, whippy cane/crop sort of item I had, so I told her to bend over and touch her toes for six. If she moved, we'd start over. I gave her five neat stripes, and she held quite still for them. Then I gave her the last stroke, quite snappy, right below the sulcus and she jumped up like a jack in the box. Her story was that it just 'surprised her', so we started again. The next five were quite a bit stronger than the first, and she was trembly, but held still. The second 'sixth' popped her up like a champagne cork. The third group of five had her shaking and moaning, and the third 'sixth' jumped her up again. The next stroke, she was barely in control, and began to beg for mercy, just to be allowed to finish the six. She tearfully acknowledged that I could make her jump any time, promised to cut out the attitude, etc, and I finished the six just gently enough to let her stay in place. So- was that 'failure', or 'success'? I was positively impressed that she kept returning to position after each 'failure', even when it became clear to her to that I was willing to keep repeating the treatment indefinitely. Over all, I considered it a positive experience for her, and she agreed. It certainly improved her demeanor in general.

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