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To be "broken" - 6/20/2007 6:49:08 AM   
chrisy


Posts: 34
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		i have heard this term many times; specifically when discussing the training or owning of a strong- willed submissive. i don't particularly like or understand the term nor do i see how breaking ones spirit would make for a satisfying sub.

any thoughts would be great!
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: To be "broken" - 6/20/2007 6:53:47 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I think it's ridiculous, but that's just me.  Some like the (romantic) notion of "breaking" their sub, I guess it's like taking a wild horse and taming it or something.  

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“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
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RE: To be "broken" - 6/20/2007 7:00:34 AM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Katy's pretty accurate, tone aside.

In a positive light, some people (dominant and submissive alike) enjoy the idea that the submissive requires a certain degree of confrontation, a sense of being overpowered and overwhelmed by the force of the dominant's personality.  Usually this would take place over the course of a few months.

In a less positive light, there's a concept of the slave having been somehow damaged in part or in whole, spiritually and emotionally.  This is far less common in BDSM, but far more common in Gothic lifestyles.

Hope that gives you a heads up.


_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to KatyLied)
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RE: To be "broken" - 6/20/2007 7:04:57 AM   
LadyHeart


Posts: 561
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		You seem to be popping up all over with your "debates" - sorry, but you seem to be here studying for a thesis or something, as you dont seem to have any real knowledge of or interest in BDSM apart from the academic. WTF?
:))
LH



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RE: To be "broken" - 6/20/2007 7:07:35 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I have never heard it expressed as 'breaking a sub's spirit', and that is not the intent. I for example would break you of the disconcerting habit of making blanket statements that fall abaft the beam. Hopefully, this would not rend either heart or spirit usunder.

Ron   

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: To be "broken" - 6/20/2007 7:10:49 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

tone aside

quote:

I for example would break you of the disconcerting habit of making blanket statements that fall abaft the beam. Hopefully, this would not rend either heart or spirit usunder.


::sigh::

Sometimes I like my tone and blanket statements....


_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

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RE: To be "broken" - 6/20/2007 7:14:48 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		I liked Katy's reply also. Sounded good to me.. tone and all. I'm considered a wild sub and a few have tried to "Break" me. It's not that I like so much being "wild".... I just won't tolerate someone trying to miroc-manage me....

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

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RE: To be "broken" - 6/20/2007 7:15:54 AM   
chrisy


Posts: 34
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		Lady, thank you for your concern. i have answered your question (which you seem to be posting in every thread i make). i do not mean to threaten you in any way. i am here discussing. if you find my style of asking questions offensive, i am sorry. i advise you to just skip all my posts as this is how i tend to discuss. :)

(in reply to LadyHeart)
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RE: To be "broken" - 6/20/2007 7:16:28 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chrisy

i have heard this term many times; specifically when discussing the training or owning of a strong- willed submissive. i don't particularly like or understand the term nor do i see how breaking ones spirit would make for a satisfying sub.

any thoughts would be great!


If the submissive's spirit is such that each day presents them with a new opportunity to challenge the dominant that they have agreed to submit to, then that is a spirit that needs to be tamed.

When I think of broken spirit, I think of harm having been done spiritually or emotionally.  I would imagine that others use the term 'spirit' to describe behavior and I see nothing wrong with changing a submissive's behavior to something that is more acceptable to the dominant and to the dynamic in which both have agreed to enter.

(in reply to chrisy)
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RE: To be "broken" - 6/20/2007 7:17:16 AM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Katy,

I think Ron was addressing the OP.  My comment on tone was just that some people enjoy that romantic notion, myself being one of them.  Please have a lovely morning.

LadyHeart,

I have a lot of time to kill over the next week.  If you search back, I've been a regular on this forum for quite some time.  If you're not interested in my comments, by all means use that little red hand under them; it may vastly improve your viewing experience.

Stephan

Stephan


_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

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RE: To be "broken" - 6/20/2007 7:18:50 AM   
chrisy


Posts: 34
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		and i would welcome that kind of "breaking." i am interested this life as a way to improve myself.

i see now there is a difference between breaking (of habit) and breaking (the spirit). does any dominant really wish to break the spirit of the sub? i have been told that this is done so that they can be "rebuilt" into the ideal sub for that dom.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: To be "broken" - 6/20/2007 7:19:38 AM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Huh?

Wait, I thought she was talking to me....


_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: To be "broken" - 6/20/2007 7:19:47 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Reposted:
Lots of people need breaking, or at least breaking of lots of bad habits. I had to break my local partner of a LOT of things before we could become serious together.

Some doms also have a "break and remold" fetish thing going as well. The reality is that breaking someone down and bringing them up again is a huge time and energy intensive operation that few have the skill and ability to do well.

But breaking someone down and building them up is certainly possible, and in some cases beneficial.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_625634/mpage_1/key_breaking/tm.htm#625730
Being Broken

http://www.collarchat.com/m_584608/mpage_1/key_breaking/tm.htm#584703
Breaking (2)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_374431/mpage_2/key_breaking/tm.htm#374702
slaves being broken

http://www.collarchat.com/m_282350/mpage_1/key_breaking/tm.htm#282444
breaking

http://www.collarchat.com/m_189190/mpage_3/key_breaking/tm.htm#191277
breaking stubbornness


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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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Profile   Post #: 13
RE: To be "broken" - 6/20/2007 7:22:12 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Oops, Stephann I misinterpreted what you said, sorry.  

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: To be "broken" - 6/20/2007 7:22:53 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chrisy


i see now there is a difference between breaking (of habit) and breaking (the spirit). does any dominant really wish to break the spirit of the sub? i have been told that this is done so that they can be "rebuilt" into the ideal sub for that dom.


Not too sure about this. I once knew a sub that was broken as it were. And her spirit was taken with it. She lost her desire to serve at all. And ended up walking out so she could rebuild herself.

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to chrisy)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: To be "broken" - 6/20/2007 7:24:18 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

i am interested this life as a way to improve myself.


Okay, I must respond to this.  It is better, in my opinion, to work on self-improvement before attempting to find a partner.  Show that you've done the work, that you care enough about yourself before you meet someone, to take these steps.  Yes, there will be many things a dom can help you with.  I think it's a mistake to enter the lifestyle as a way of self-improvement.  As a way to address your needs for sensation, intimacy, etc, yes the lifestyle can be beneficial..


_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to chrisy)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: To be "broken" - 6/20/2007 7:32:42 AM   
chrisy


Posts: 34
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		KatyLied- "Okay, I must respond to this.  It is better, in my opinion, to work on self-improvement before attempting to find a partner"

i agree! i am not seeking a partner as stated in my profile and i wholeheartedly agree! i am here to learn by discussion and debate. Thank you for you replies so far! i really love this kind of talk!

though i do believe that i try to improve myself with most of the activities i do. i would not for instance, wait until i am limber before i feel i am "good enough" to join a yoga class! i like to jump right in, making sure the person (teacher) knows my intent.  does that make sense?

< Message edited by chrisy -- 6/20/2007 7:34:55 AM >

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: To be "broken" - 6/20/2007 7:35:41 AM   
CitizenCane


Posts: 349
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		I think this is one of those terms that conjours very different images in different people. For some, they picture the submissive as'broken' as in 'damaged', others simply see in it the idea of 'breaking' bad habits, or 'breaking resistance', either of which seem fairly central to the idea of submission to me. After all, a person who is a 'slave' to their habits, preconceptions or attitudes has major areas in which they not available to be submissive to their master.  In the latter context it becomes a question of style- breaking a horse needn't involve violence or confrontation, sometimes it can be done very gently. Of course, horses can't conceptualize the context, process or result- they are simply reacting to the moment in a situation they haven't volounteered for.  They aren't aware that failing the overall process may mean a trip to the glue factory. 'Submissives', on the other hand, are generally well aware that 'failing'  (in any kind of civilized relationship) leads simply to 'freedom'- not an option for the average horse, whatever it's feelings or perceptions.


(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: To be "broken" - 6/20/2007 7:40:10 AM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Katy,

I straddle the fence on that topic.  I completely agree, we should make sure we are stable and sound before we make good relationship partners.  But on the other hand, we all have flaws and virtues, and there needs to be a point where we are willing to enjoy the company of others, in spite of those flaws.  We can't hole up in a clinic (coughs) or hide from the world in an effort to improve ourselves.  By socializing, we learn social skills. 

LA,

Something I've come to believe is that I cannot get involved with someone expecting, hoping, or trying to change them.  I completely understand what you mean by saying some things had to change before you could become serious and I don't fault you for it.  I'm only pointing out that many people think "oh, he's pretty close to what I want, and with a little effort I can smooth out the edges and fix the issues I don't like."  More often than not, it's futile.

Stephan


_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to chrisy)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: To be "broken" - 6/20/2007 7:43:42 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann
LA,

Something I've come to believe is that I cannot get involved with someone expecting, hoping, or trying to change them.  I completely understand what you mean by saying some things had to change before you could become serious and I don't fault you for it.  I'm only pointing out that many people think "oh, he's pretty close to what I want, and with a little effort I can smooth out the edges and fix the issues I don't like."  More often than not, it's futile.

Stephan

Oh absolutely.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 20
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