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Another Take On Criminal Background Checks - 6/20/2007 9:35:48 PM   
Emperor1956


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Well I've skimmed the lengthy threads on Criminal Background Checks (lets call 'em CBC to save pixels), and what I don't see (although some touch on it) is any analysis or even understanding of WHAT A CBC SHOULD BE. 

I'm not going to revisit the entire "do it/don't do it" debate.  I just want to ask what the people who advocate doing a cbc on a prospect think they are getting?  And I'll advance a theory:   Those that talk big about doing background checks either don't know what they are getting, and are being scammed and paying for crap information, or they are scamming all of us when they say they do CBCs, because they have no clue what a valid CBC would look like, and how to access one.

You have two major problems with CBCs.  First, the only halfway decent databases are closed off to the general public.  Second, the data even the best CBC databases hold is old, incomplete and suspect.  Allow me to elaborate (oh, yes, Sir E.  Please DO!).

The key national databases are The Interstate Identification Index, which maintains information on criminal history; the National Crime Information Center, which maintains information on protective orders, active arrest warrants, and immigration violations; and the NICS Index (the major file), which maintains information provided by federal, state, and local agencies on persons prohibited from possessing firearms and explosives.  All of these are maintained by the FBI, which is VERY serious about keeping the data out of the hands of those who shouldn't have it.

It is a crime to access the accurate State and Federal data bases for anything but approved purposes.  (Does anyone see the delicious irony of people becoming criminals in order to check out if the people they want to meet are criminals?  But I digress.)  Checking out your next fuck buddy is not on the list of approved purposes...golly gee.   Only authorized law enforcement persons, and certain limited designated individuals (the largest group of which is Federal Firearms Licensees and similar folks, like explosive vendors and explosive licence examiners) are allowed to access the databases.   And ONLY for permitted purposes.  If your fuckbuddy the cop tells you he'll check out your next friend, he's breaking the law and can lose his job, and the ability to do that job anywhere in the USA, or he's lying to you (I'm betting on the lie).  So if you are getting accurate data, you are either in this limited group AND doing authorized searches, or you are breaking the law.

Now, the second problem.  There is NO publicly available database (online, in-person or otherwise) that checks criminal activities on a person in all of the jurisdictions in the USA.  Hell, there are states where the data isn't available even for the entire state in one place!  Several states keep criminal conviction data by township or county ONLY.  Some centralize warrants (makes it easier to get a guy wanted in, for example, Pittsburgh but living in Philly) but actually convictions require a county by county search in many States.  Arrests?  Hah!  you can't find accurate arrest records often even within counties. 

So lets say you are smitten with MasterOhSoClean, and you decide he is your one twue Dom.  You chat and chat.  You KNOW he's the one.  but...there's that little niggling earworm that says "sweetie...your judgement isn't too good...remember the blue eyeliner debacle?  Maybe you should do a CBC on the dreamboat?"   Now when you buy that CBC on MasterOhSoClean, you have NO clue what you are getting.  Even if he's honest and gives you his real SS, address, picture, mother's maiden name and day of first nocturnal emission, when you go to check on a legitimate public database (like a courthouse record), you will at BEST get the criminal convictions (and arrests, warrants, orders of protection...maybe) for that one local jurisdiction.  So MasterOhSoClean shows up great in West Virginia, but you have no way of accessing his record in Washington, where he lived for the previous 30 years, unless you know his Washington details.  (by the way, his record in Washington includes his convictions for pederasty, rape and jaywalking, for which he drew 30-life).  Do you check every jurisdiction?  HA.  I think at last count, county-by-county was in the nature of 5300 separate searches, many which require an in-person visit.

If that isn't enough...lets say you really DO reach the Holy Grail...and you have access to the NCIS.  Go ahead, bucko (or buckette), tell me how many States this incredible FEDERAL database covers?  Come on....50?  52 (Wash DC and Puerto Rico?)  Uh....no.  last time I checked only 27 US States provided information to the NCIS register.  uhhhhh yeppers.  27 (I forget if its now 26....Georgia dropped out).  The other guys, well they are what we call POC (point of contact) States....that means....well...by the time I tell you what it means, Mr. Wonderful has run thru your savings AND your panties, and to say goodbye, he rogered the dog, too.

My point:   Those of you pontificating about the importance of CBCs don't have an effing clue what you are talking about.

Fondly,

E.

(who has a record longer than Domidong's moniker...but it is in Hebrew, and accessible only by circumcised Mossad agents who read left-to-right.)

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.
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RE: Another Take On Criminal Background Checks - 6/21/2007 1:23:53 AM   
themischievous1


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From: San Antonio, Texas
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Mmmm okay, I'll bite. What about something like Intelius?

http://www.intelius.com/

I've used this in the past and it brought up former arrests, bankruptcies, marriages, property owned and sold, and a host of other things as well. It was reasonably accurate. It correlated with everything I was told before I checked.

Then there's always the sex offender data base in one's area to check free of charge, and you can send the individual you are checking down to the local police department in your county where they will run a state and local criminal background check upon said individual for a nominal fee. True it only covers that state but I believe the individual can request a national check upon themselves for a larger fee and it takes a little longer (about a month). This is the case in TX at any rate.

(in reply to Emperor1956)
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RE: Another Take On Criminal Background Checks - 6/21/2007 6:24:01 AM   
SimplyMichael


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Emporer,

Cops break the law all the time and their use of LE resources to fuck with and abuse loved ones is legendary.  Ask anyone who works at a battered women's shelter what they think of cops and you will see more than a bit of rage.  If you think NICS isn't abused constantly, I am shocked.

Also, cops only catch the stupid and the unlucky, any decent criminal never gets caught by the cops and has no record.

(in reply to themischievous1)
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RE: Another Take On Criminal Background Checks - 6/21/2007 6:27:16 AM   
MarkMinette


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From: Fredericton, New Brunswick
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Emporer,

Also, cops only catch the stupid and the unlucky, any decent criminal never gets caught by the cops and has no record.


Like anyone stupid enough to knock over a donut shop?

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RE: Another Take On Criminal Background Checks - 6/21/2007 6:27:51 AM   
Alumbrado


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There are commercial databases that can be accessed by attorneys and investigators that will divulge far more than NCIS.
Perhaps not up to the level of an NAC (National Agency Check...when they actually send people out to interview your college roomate), but fairly revealing...

Cheery thought - if someone pursuing a relationship with you is going to the effort to cover their tracks to that degree, you are probably already in trouble...

(in reply to themischievous1)
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RE: Another Take On Criminal Background Checks - 6/21/2007 6:30:06 AM   
becca333


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How about if you hook them up to a lie detector machine?  Maybe it could be a fun dating activity.

And to make it more BDSM, rig the machine to deliver an electric shock whenever the subject lies.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: Another Take On Criminal Background Checks - 6/21/2007 6:35:02 AM   
queencaliph


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quote:

ORIGINAL: becca333

How about if you hook them up to a lie detector machine?  Maybe it could be a fun dating activity.

And to make it more BDSM, rig the machine to deliver an electric shock whenever the subject lies.


WOW!!!I LOVE THAT IDEA!!!!!!

_____________________________

"awwww hell......the Queen!"

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RE: Another Take On Criminal Background Checks - 6/21/2007 6:37:01 AM   
becca333


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I'm imaginative and devious.  It's a dangerous combination.

But boy I get some fun ideas!

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RE: Another Take On Criminal Background Checks - 6/21/2007 9:30:01 AM   
LaTigresse


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I am just curious E, if this is the case then how is it that I can go into local public record and get my son's entire history of less than exemplary citizenship from his late teens and early twenties? 

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Emperor1956)
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RE: Another Take On Criminal Background Checks - 6/21/2007 9:51:33 AM   
MiladyElaine


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I think an investment in a lie detector kit would be fun seeing as how they charge around $50 for each search.  But if they are devious enough, they probably know how to control their breathing so they pass.
Maybe a private eye?


_____________________________

A crazy quilt is warm but oddly put together.

Milady

(in reply to LaTigresse)
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RE: Another Take On Criminal Background Checks - 6/21/2007 9:59:55 AM   
Masque66


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I think the best way to go about is to make sure you don't meet him/her in an isolated way.  I.E. don't show up at the doorstep in handcuffs.  Meet in public places, have him/her be your boy/girlfriend for a time and introduce to your friends.  The best deterrent to a criminal is the prospect of getting caught, and the more public they become the harder it is to do.  It's not perfect, the dedicated or the insane won't be put off, but it's better than nothing.  Given the inaccuracy and corruption of official information your best bet is your own wisdom.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
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RE: Another Take On Criminal Background Checks - 6/21/2007 11:25:38 AM   
slaverosebeauty


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956
My point:   Those of you pontificating about the importance of CBCs don't have an effing clue what you are talking about.


{rofl} YOU haven't a clue as to what you are talking about; you might want to keep your mouth shut, unless you know a bit more, more fact, less speculation and judgement. I run CBCs as you call them, I can get a LOT of information, besides criminal if I asked for it, I don't because, I know exactly what I want and what I need to know.  I don't want to be intrusive, but, I want to keep my job AND be safe.
 
As I said in the other threads my JOB is at risk if I associate with people with felonies, etc, so I do have access to background checks that the general public does not; ALL LEGAL. I set my criteria to a few fields and if neccesary make a few calls {military records are blocked unless any criminal investigation or charges were/are present}.
 
Emperor1956, if an I were potential partners and we were preparing to meet, I would run a check on you, no second thoughts. Not only would my job be at risk IF you had something in your past [I am NOT saying you do] but also my saftey among other things. If that bothered you, then I would tell you 'good bye.' If me keeping my job and being safe is an issue, then we have no business associating on that level or meeting face-to-face and being friends off of on-line.
 
I have ran into men on cm {and a few other sites} that are pediphiles, registered sex offenders, violent felons, have restraining orders and orders of protection against them among other things.  I am a single mother, and their is NO WAY in hell that I would want people like that around my child or myself. How did I find that out, I ran a background check; a few of the guys had skipped out on parole or had not registered with their respective counties, my inquiries set off flags [in the computer system] and a few bad guys are back in prision.
 
I don't want to think of what may have happened if I had not. I do trust my instincts, if something seems 'amiss' I run a more through check, I also talk to potential partners as much as I can.
 
I ran a check on MJ {work said I had too - one of my co-workers is on this site and called me on not having run a check on Him}, and everything was clear; He told me about His military background and a few tickets, nobigdeal. I trusted Him as a friend, and now, I trust Him s a Master and a close friend. He knows I did it, He was fine with it. He can run one on me, I don't have a problem, heck, I will give Him my maden name if He wanted to run a check on my parents, I don't have anything to hide. 

I'm not paranoid; I like my job and I want to keep myself and my son safe.

If someone doesn't like it, then oh well. They have to be hiding something. Once I get te report, I look at it for a few things, then I destroy it. I don't keep it. No reason too.    

_____________________________

http://slaverosebeauty.livejournal.com/

"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

(in reply to Emperor1956)
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RE: Another Take On Criminal Background Checks - 6/21/2007 1:34:26 PM   
Petronius


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I think that "Emperor1956" wrote well on this theme, stripping away lots of hype and hysteria to get down to a real factual core.

To his post, "slaverosebeauty" wrote "YOU haven't a clue as to what you are talking about; you might want to keep your mouth shut, unless you know a bit more, more fact, less speculation and judgement."

I've seen numbers of situations where the people who fire off a "you don't know shit" and "why don't you learn before..." are not able to provide any independent evidence for their positions.

I'd like to see any evidence from any law enforcement agency that lets any employee legally access the databases for personal information like checking out potential play partners.

Given that I'd like to see anything from "slaverosebeauty" to back up her claims about access to law enforcement databases for personal use.

I don't think we'll get any.

I can't quite understand the value she places on her "job at risk" if she dates people considered unsavory by groups like the Internal Affairs Division of various law enforcement agencies. It isn't that IAD doesn't land on people for that; they certainly do. But, as far as I know, they also land on people like "slaverosebeauty" who hang out on boards like collarme, post pictures as she does, and list the various "kinky" "perversions" she's into. (The quotation marks here are the type of conclusions reached by IADs, not me.)

The absence of hard information that would let us confirm her claims, coupled with the intense contradiction between her worries about dating a nogoodnik while posting as she does on collarme, reminds me of the various Doms who are the heads of multimillion dollar corporations (the proof being their claims, of course.)

Similarly, "LaTigresse" wrote that she could go to a "local public record" to get her son's "entire history of less than exemplary [behavior]." As a computer professional and someone who has actually done a tad of public research, I'm not aware of anything called a "local public record."


(in reply to slaverosebeauty)
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RE: Another Take On Criminal Background Checks - 6/21/2007 3:34:28 PM   
SimplyMichael


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quote:

I'd like to see any evidence from any law enforcement agency that lets any employee legally access the databases for personal information like checking out potential play partners.


Your kidding right? 

(in reply to Petronius)
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RE: Another Take On Criminal Background Checks - 6/21/2007 3:48:31 PM   
Emperor1956


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quote:

LaT:  I am just curious E, if this is the case then how is it that I can go into local public record and get my son's entire history of less than exemplary citizenship from his late teens and early twenties? 


Well, I'm guessing he did most of his anti-social behavior in one jurisdiction, and it is a jurisdiction that (1) tracks and stores criminal offenses in a data base and (2) allows access to that data base by citizens.  Is that true?  What are you searching at the public library?

Also, does it really have his ENTIRE history?  Arrests?  Dispositions?  If you are checking in Iowa, it is no surprise as Iowa has maintained (and shared) CBC databases since the early 1990s.  Try it in California.

E.

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
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RE: Another Take On Criminal Background Checks - 6/21/2007 4:23:16 PM   
gwendolyn


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You know, I'm not even sure where to begin with this. Firstly, why would a modeling agency expect you to meet such stringent criteria? Secondly, are you actually a model, or was the a lie you told on the other website you were banned from posting on? -rolls eyes- Same old slaverosebeauty, I see..

_____________________________

Tell me what did you like about me?
And don't say my strength and daring.
'cause now I think I'm at your mercy;
And it's my first time for this kind of thing.

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)
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RE: Another Take On Criminal Background Checks - 6/21/2007 4:35:30 PM   
yrstocollar


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Having worked in the legal system in Australia it is surprisingly and scarily easy to just ring up and access this sort of information from court registrars and the like... you just need to know the proper terminology... I do it all the time for work (for legitimate purposes of course!) and frequently talk to people who don't even know my name and yet they give me the information.

I don't see why anyone would bother though... as many people have pointed out you can't get ALL the information... even the person you're checking out probably doesn't know everything that might be on file about them... but more specifically, why is it so important to know this about a person? If they have criminal behaviour / history which is going to be a problem in a relationship, so many other red flags should be going up for you that you should already know this is not the person for you.

Plus, you're starting the relationship from such a place of suspicion, dishonesty and lack of communication that it's not going to go anywhere good anyway.


(in reply to Emperor1956)
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RE: Another Take On Criminal Background Checks - 6/21/2007 4:47:20 PM   
aSlavesLife


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I would let someone run a check on me. I would sit smiling while they let me know how they had found no more than a speeding ticket from 22 years ago. Then I would explain to them how I just couldn't bear the thought of being with a paranoid control freak, and promptly take my leave.

Owner of slave L

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It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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RE: Another Take On Criminal Background Checks - 6/21/2007 4:55:06 PM   
yrstocollar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife

I would let someone run a check on me. I would sit smiling while they let me know how they had found no more than a speeding ticket from 22 years ago. Then I would explain to them how I just couldn't bear the thought of being with a paranoid control freak, and promptly take my leave.

Owner of slave L


perfect!

(in reply to aSlavesLife)
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RE: Another Take On Criminal Background Checks - 6/21/2007 5:33:14 PM   
Petronius


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Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

I'd like to see any evidence from any law enforcement agency that lets any employee legally access the databases for personal information like checking out potential play partners.


Your kidding right? 


Why in the world would I be kidding about something like this?

Imagine what, in essence, is being claimed: "I work for Law Enforcement and my job is at risk if I socially relate to a convicted felon. So I illegally use the databases to spy on other citizens unaccused of any crime, and I engage in this felony in order to be a good Law Enforcement employee."

It is either that type of admission, which I suspect the people in question would not openly make, or a claim that they aren't engaged in criminal behavior because they have, e.g., a union contract that let's them use the law enforcement databases for personal gain.

If somebody is denying they engage in felonies and do it legally I just wanted to see some evidence.



(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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