RE: Respect in D/s (Full Version)

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LadyIce -> RE: Respect in D/s (6/22/2007 6:36:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

Irk.

Yup it used to really bother me, I am not a person used to snide remarks and casual rudeness. It still bugs me to a degree but it is not something I can change in others, I can only change how I react to it.


I should not even use the word irk, I think there is a new breed of submissive.
The type that feels any behavior is acceptable, often it is amusing.
I fully expect them to rant and scream about how they will act any way they like,
it is their normal everyday chant and rant on here.
It actually becomes boring after a while.



julietsierra -> RE: Respect in D/s (6/22/2007 6:51:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: annare

i've already prepared myself for some nasty posts in reply to this thread but, after having spent several days reading through these forums and responding to a few, something that has always urked me has worked its way to the surface and i just needed to say something.



quote:

: LadyIce
I do not see where she said it bothered her, in fact she said several times it does not bother her.


quote:

: LadyIce
It urks me too, don't we have a right to say how we feel?


quote:

: cjenny
Irk.


And now, from "Sir Roget" and his Thesaurus:

Irk: v. pain, hurt, wound, sadden, displease, annoy, trouble, disturb, cross, perplex, vex, mortify, worry, plague, bother, pester, harass, badger, bait, heckle, irritate, anger, persecute, provoke; harrow, torment, torture, affront, insult, give offense, offend, maltreat, mistreat; sicken, disgust, revolt, nauseate, repel, shock, horrify, appal



So, I'm curious, does it or does it not bother? Irk and bother are synonymous. If it does not bother/irk, then what's the thread really about? And if it does, why deny it?

See, this is the problem when ideas are so cloaked in "respect" that thoughts and ideas are clouded to the point that the intention of the post is lost or so obliviated as to not make sense to the reader.

LadyIce, of course people can "feel" any way they want to. However, I have seen some pretty interesting things covered up by the rationale of "Don't I have the right to FEEEL that way?" (as if one's feelings means that any statement made should be dismissed because someone just "feels" like it.

I'm not saying anyone doesn't have the right to feel any which way they choose, but using this thread as a case in point, saying one thing at one moment and another thing in the very next breath in an effort to tone down what might be perceived wrongly, indicating a possible lack of respect for someone makes no sense to me. I prefer someone stand on what they believe and then be able to support their argument with something other than feelings. 

So, when discussing this and other ideas on these threads, it seems to me that when arguing a point, one should at the very least be able to say what their point was, and then, by all means, be able to support their assertions by something more than feelings.

So, I'm curious, do you feel that this supposed lack of respect bothers you? or does it irk you? or does it do neither but attempt to chastise other posters here for voicing their views in ways you just don't like?

And if you just don't like they ways in which they do this, does it really mean they're somehow "wrong?"

juliet


(edited because there are some days in which I really need to fire the typist)



Stephann -> RE: Respect in D/s (6/22/2007 6:53:06 AM)

So, echoing what some have said; I believe that lack of respect doesn't equate with lack of courtesy.  I don't respect many people, but I don't advertise that fact (usually...outside of message board topics related to respect.)  I am polite to almost everyone I don't know.  I give everyone a chance to earn respect.

I also teach (and strive to achieve) humility.  I really do make an effort to not just be courteous to people I meet, but to genuinely be warm and friendly.  I expect; no, demand it from a slave.  I teach a slave that, especially in my presence, it isn't her place to demonstrate a judgement against someone.  It's her place to be respectful (i.e. extremely polite) to everyone, period.  It's my job to be the heavy, if need be.  Short of our lives in danger, she is not to insult or aggrevate someone.  If she finds herself in a situation with me that she can't stand, she's to beg to be excused.

In the lifestyle, if I were to learn that my slave was less than courteous to someone...anyone... for any reason, she should very well expect to be disciplined for it.  This is, however, a personal taste, and I don't advocate it for the general public.

Stephan



mbes -> RE: Respect in D/s (6/22/2007 7:00:55 AM)

Perhaps the reasons some are collared have nothing to do with their skill at interacting on a message board, and instead has to do with other strengths they have?
I know others see things differently, but I'm a reflection of mine in the same way that he is a reflection of me. We are individuals and both expect to be treated as such.
I tend not to read between the lines very well, so I appreciate bluntness over tact. Others are better at reading between the lines, so value tact higher. Just like everything else I've noticed around here, we all have preferences.
Oh, and JuliaOcean, when you perfect the skill of not being bothered, would you please pass along the secret?? [:D]



annare -> RE: Respect in D/s (6/22/2007 7:05:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farieanne

Hi,
i try to be respectful to everyone rather D/type or /s type. my Master feels, and i happen to agree with Him, that a sub/slave is a reflection of his/her Owner/Dom. i think if i was disrespectful i would be punished. No offence meant but it would probably be more sever if it were to a Dom. It's not that they are better than a sub/slave but it's like showing respect to an elder. Or is that taught any more? Just my opinion.


i think this is what i was trying to get at, anne... well stated. [:)]



annare -> RE: Respect in D/s (6/22/2007 7:09:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jssubc
Absolutely agree! i often wonder as to the "tone" of some posts and the vehemence of the wording. Surely there are civilized ways to disagree without going into attack mode. Though it seems that is the trend of society in general now.


AMEN!! [;)]



annare -> RE: Respect in D/s (6/22/2007 7:14:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyIce

I do not see where she said it bothered her, in fact she said several times it does not bother her.
She feels as I do, that the way you behave online is a reflection of who you really are.
I don't know why so many can't understand her point.
I also agree with her, there are many I dismiss because I don't like the way they conduct themselves on line.


Thank You, Ma'am... its good to know that i managed to get this through to Someone. *giggles softly*



annare -> RE: Respect in D/s (6/22/2007 7:18:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

Irk.

Yup it used to really bother me, I am not a person used to snide remarks and casual rudeness. It still bugs me to a degree but it is not something I can change in others, I can only change how I react to it.


True enough, jenny... i suppose i was just looking to see if O/others noticed it and how T/they felt. Guess i got it! [;)]



yourMissTress -> RE: Respect in D/s (6/22/2007 7:53:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: annare

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyIce

I do not see where she said it bothered her, in fact she said several times it does not bother her.
She feels as I do, that the way you behave online is a reflection of who you really are.
I don't know why so many can't understand her point.
I also agree with her, there are many I dismiss because I don't like the way they conduct themselves on line.


Thank You, Ma'am... its good to know that i managed to get this through to Someone. *giggles softly*


I agree with this idea that the manner with which a person conducts themselves online is indicative of their character.  There are so many people who are, or seem to be, very nice and well mannered people in life, who are not as they seem to be and only let their true nature show in what they feel to be an anonymous or shielded existence.   They let loose the leash on their prejudiced thoughts and let racial, religious, misogynist, or misandrist slurs fly from their fingertips when hiding safely behind their monitors.  All of the hate and fear that they bottle up daily is free to wander about on their keyboards and appear on the monitors of all who enter the chatrooms or message boards on which they post, revealing their character without revealing their face.

This is not limited, as LA stated, to our lifestyle, and neither is our lifestyle free of it, and a sub or slave shouldn't somehow be above the rest of humanity.



mistoferin -> RE: Respect in D/s (6/22/2007 7:57:59 AM)

<off topic detour>
yourMissTress, it's so good to see you!
<resume normal route>



Aileen68 -> RE: Respect in D/s (6/22/2007 8:16:47 AM)

Unfortunately, and I've seen this time and time again, when people don't agree with an OP or when they don't express themselves according to the OP's standards they are viewed as being rude and disrespectful by the OP.  The most ironic thing is, when someone starts a thread complaining how rude and mean people can be, they inevitably bury themselves in their own rudeness and disrespect. 



SirDominic -> RE: Respect in D/s (6/22/2007 8:34:15 AM)

Quite right, aileen. I believe this happens because people have been brainwashed into thinking that if someone doesn't agree with you, somehow it is a slight against you personally. And when one feels under attack, the natural response is to attack back.

This board, and this world, would be a happier place if people got this mindset out of their heads. It is okay to disagree with someone, with no respect meant to the "person" at all. And you know what else, 99.999% of what is talked about on this site is not worth getting into a pissing match over, it just is not that important.

As for the ones who always come on in attack mode, they just amuse me. All they are showing is what a'holes they are to the entire forum. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot, assuming you may be on here looking for a sub or Dom. Far as I am concerned, the more you act like a raving idiot, the more you show how little control you have over yourself. Especially for the ones that are supposedly Doms, that is the kiss of death.

Namaste, Sir Dominic



octavia -> RE: Respect in D/s (6/22/2007 8:40:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDominic

Quite right, aileen. I believe this happens because people have been brainwashed into thinking that if someone doesn't agree with you, somehow it is a slight against you personally. And when one feels under attack, the natural response is to attack back.

This board, and this world, would be a happier place if people got this mindset out of their heads. It is okay to disagree with someone, with no respect meant to the "person" at all. And you know what else, 99.999% of what is talked about on this site is not worth getting into a pissing match over, it just is not that important.

As for the ones who always come on in attack mode, they just amuse me. All they are showing is what a'holes they are to the entire forum. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot, assuming you may be on here looking for a sub or Dom. Far as I am concerned, the more you act like a raving idiot, the more you show how little control you have over yourself. Especially for the ones that are supposedly Doms, that is the kiss of death.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

Well said! [:)]



slavegirljoy -> RE: Respect in D/s (6/22/2007 9:15:55 AM)


Being respectful is important to me.  i do my best to always express my honest views and experiences in a respectful manner, whether they agree or disagree with the views and experiences expressed by others.  This is how i am in person and online.  It's not only part of my personal code of ethics, in how i treat others, but, i also consider it to be a reflection on my Master and i won't ever deliberately do anything that would reflect badly on Him.  He expects His slave to be well-behaved and respectful everywhere, all the time and to everyone.
 
Still, i understand that people are what they are and some express themselves more abrasively or coarsely than others.  This is a free and open forum for people to express themselves in whatever way they choose and fits them.  Sometimes, some people take things very personally.  Sometimes, some people take things very negatively.  Sometimes, some people take things offensively.  Sometimes, some people take things as strictly black or white, all or nothing, one extreme or the other.  Sometimes, some people are having a bad day and are in a bad mood.  Sometimes, some things just don't come out they way they were meant or they get interpreted as something different than was intended.  Then again, sometimes, some people are just rude.  Everything i read on here, is read taking this into consideration and with a big grain of salt.

____________
slave joy
Owned property of Master David
 
"..and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." -- F. Nietzsche 

quote:

ORIGINAL: annare
i realize that once a sub/slave is owned, technically the only One she has to please is her Dom/Master but, what happened to common courtesy and respect? Am i the only one that feels this way? Is it completely out of character?



Celeste43 -> RE: Respect in D/s (6/22/2007 9:20:48 AM)

I get the feeling that you assume all subs should be subservient to everyone. That may be in your playbook but it isn't in mine.

In fact it's against the rules in my relationship to go around saying sir to every self identified dom on the boards. The only one I may submit to is him.

In general however, remember that when we speak to someone face to face the nonverbal communication is about 70% of what we receive, the words only give us about a third of the total message. So without facial gestures, body language etc it is very difficult to read another properly.

And this, which is a text based medium totally, has all of those problems. So if I say something that you interpret as rude, it may easily have been meant by me to be candid. Plus sometimes the problem lies with the reader. Had a fight with a boyfriend recently and anyone else who even suggests something close to what the boyfriend said will be read by the reader as deliberately hurtful simply because the reader is overly sensitive in that area.



slaveluci -> RE: Respect in D/s (6/22/2007 9:27:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
Wonderful post! I totally agree, you have some submissive's here that literally scare me.
I see absolutely nothing submissive about some of them {mainly males}, but then many
people are only submissive with the right person or in the bedroom! hahaha
It does indeed take all kinds, and you will see that here!
**Let me add, you may have a submissive heart, is it who and what you are**
Many here only have that capability when it suits them or is required of them.
It could be who you really are, many here are situationally submissive at best.
Peace

Hello MzMia.  Only 12 more days now to Independence Day that you are so anticipating!  You and I usually find ourselves agreeing here on the forums but this post is one that I feel the need to offer a differing viewpoint on.  I hope no disrespect or offense is taken because certainly none is intended.  Here goes[:)]..............

Overall on the boards, it is accepted that we are to be of the attitude that everyone's "kink" is fine and not to be belittled if they enjoy it.  Also, even though debates crop up fairly often about the difference between subs and slaves and whether or not one group is "better" or "deeper into" this, it is also generally accepted by most that one group is not inherently better than the other and all are accepted for what they are.  Lately, I've noticed a mini-trend of posts against what you have referred to above as those who are "situationally submissive."  This term, I suppose, would apply to the examples you gave:  only submissive with the "right person," only submissive in the "bedroom," or when it "suits" them or is "required" of them.  Whenever subs/slaves are seen as fitting this description, they seem to be described as basically fake - not "real" submissives but someone who just "puts on an act" whenever they get ready to and feel like it and are in the right situation with the right person.

First of all, IF that were the case, I don't see the problem.  If that's what works for them - to be "bedroom submissives" - then that is THEIR kink and just as valid as any other around here.  However, though there are some folks like that, I tend to believe that most aren't.  I tend to feel that there are many subs/slaves whose submissiveness gets questioned simply because they are publically assertive.  I certainly fit this description.  I have always been an outspoken, opinionated, assertive person.  That did not end when I met Master nor does He have any desire for it to end.  I show common courtesy when it is extended to me but I don't have any desire to defer to others just because I am His slave and am submissive to Him. 

As funny or worthy of scorn as it may seem for a sub/slave to be "situationally submissive", that is exactly what my Master wants and expects.  He has zero desire for a slave who is always submissive to all people.  That works for some and that is totally acceptable for them.  He chose me as His slave because He liked who I was.  He liked that I am strong, intelligent, capable, independent, opinionated, and articulate.  He loves that I didn't just live my life submissive to anyone who happened to be in the area and that I didn't and don't defer to anyone simply because they think or say I should.  He saw me for who I was and chose me as His slave and doesn't expect that I will change all that I am or fake being someone else just to appear to be submissive enough to outsiders looking in.

As far as a "submissive heart," that's open to interpretation by anyone who reads it and I'm sure we'd all have varying definitions of just what it means.  If having it means that I'm supposed to defer to anyone who doesn't also identify as a sub/slave, then I don't.  But, if having a "submissive heart" means that I live to please my Master and that my heart is full of the need to serve Him, then I most certainly do.  I am submissive to Him always (not just in the "bedroom") and not because it is "required" of me or when it "suits" me. 

I do think I see the point you are making.  I have also seen people who identify as submissive yet seem so overbearing and bossy that, by just a quick glance, it would seem that they would probably make better dominants.  To me, that is an entirely different example than subs/slaves like myself who really ARE "situationally submissive" in the sense that we submit only to the one who we have agreed to submit to or the one who owns us.  To me, there's a huge difference between the two examples.  Also, Master said that if being "situationally submissive" is a bad thing, then wouldn't being "situationally dominant" also be?  Why is it that so many people expect a sub/slave to defer to anyone anytime to be considered "submissive" enough but yet no one expects doms/masters to go around cracking the whip on everyone all the time?  I think that's an excellent point.  Just as I don't defer or submit to strangers, neither does He expect strangers to defer or submit TO Him.  It works both ways and, for us, makes just as little sense.  Anyway, just thought I'd offer a different perspective.  Hope it made sense............slave luci



RCdc -> RE: Respect in D/s (6/22/2007 9:35:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyIce

quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

Irk.

Yup it used to really bother me, I am not a person used to snide remarks and casual rudeness. It still bugs me to a degree but it is not something I can change in others, I can only change how I react to it.


I should not even use the word irk, I think there is a new breed of submissive.
The type that feels any behavior is acceptable, often it is amusing.
I fully expect them to rant and scream about how they will act any way they like,
it is their normal everyday chant and rant on here.
It actually becomes boring after a while.


Now see, this post to me - I could consider it rude and incredibly disrespectful.  How can people make such a judgement on a few words printed on a screen?   In fact the OP itself can be seen as rude and condecending (ha! - my favourite most used word this week[;)]) - it probably isn't - and everyone voices their opinion.  But it's a post that is as old as time - because people are just people and so the generic we shouldn;t have to expect any different than you get in everyday life.
 
This, I believe is what julias point was (and we need to stop agreeing julia coz it's getting to a point where you and I can't have a decent fall out anymore![;)]).  That what may seem rude to one, may not be the intention of another.  Without inflection, without eye contact and mannerisms and hand gestures - the words posted are just words from an anon.  That is why you get to know a person as well - to find out how they speak and exactly what they mean.  I know it can be annoying to the self to see what one may judge as ill mannered remarks, but learning about a person and what they really mean goes way beyond all that.
 
Peace
the.dark.



Ayanaev717 -> RE: Respect in D/s (6/22/2007 9:38:04 AM)

I believe that in order for you to have respect you have to discuss what respects means to the both of you. My definition may well be different from yours and so my belief system may actually touch on some issues and concerns of yours. We also have to consider that often when someone speaks to use in a certain fashion we may become triggered emotionally and mentally. This is why communication is important and a dominant should not be upset because they triggered something within a submissive, and that submissive says something to them about it.

I would be quite concerned if my subbie did not talk to me. However, I do believe it goes both ways. Some subbies especially in "collar me in da hood," are downright rude, nasty, and really need some therapy. So communication has to come from both ends.

It should be paramount before any play is started. Or someone will get very hurt.

Always,

Ayanaev




Wildfleurs -> RE: Respect in D/s (6/22/2007 10:07:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: annare

i've already prepared myself for some nasty posts in reply to this thread but, after having spent several days reading through these forums and responding to a few, something that has always urked me has worked its way to the surface and i just needed to say something.

i wonder where in the subby training manual that evidently i never received it says that once a submissive is collared, she has the right to say anything she pleases without regard or respect for O/others. Maybe i'm a strange one... but, isn't it possible to voice a difference in opinion without verbally abusing people and making yourself look like a complete brat? i realize that once a sub/slave is owned, technically the only One she has to please is her Dom/Master but, what happened to common courtesy and respect? Am i the only one that feels this way? Is it completely out of character?


I don't believe I owe anyone respect, but I do tend to believe that I owe people politeness and basic courtesy (saying please and thank you).  But I don't believe that dominants get some special pass on debates or discussions because they call themselves a dominant (or even if every single person on collarme agreed that they were a dominant).  I can't say that I've seen a lot of verbal abuse or brattiness on these boards - I do see different levels of agressiveness and activeness in responding to posts or handling discussions, but I don't see the big deal in that - I don't mind a vigorous discussion (a circular or repetitive discussion is annoying though).

C~



maybemaybenot -> RE: Respect in D/s (6/22/2007 10:15:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: annare


i wonder where in the subby training manual that evidently i never received it says that once a submissive is collared, she has the right to say anything she pleases without regard or respect for O/others. Maybe i'm a strange one... but, isn't it possible to voice a difference in opinion without verbally abusing people and making yourself look like a complete brat? I realize that once a sub/slave is owned, technically the only One she has to please is her Dom/Master but, what happened to common courtesy and respect? Am i the only one that feels this way? Is it completely out of character?


I am going to approach this from a different angle, because I have no problem saying there are times I have been flippant, curt, sarcastic and a miriad of  other negative adjectives that could be construed as disrespectful.

I come to a MB/forum with no set expectations. I have no illusion that the people who post here would be or are more respectful than the people on a football MB or any others MB. I do not hold * lifestylers* to a higher standard than the average Joe. I do not hold submissives to a higher standard than Dominants. I fully expect that there are going to be folks who are much different than myself, some similar and lots in between.

Respect or respectful, to me, are very relative terms and open to the interpretation of the reciever. Both online and in RL. I have been called names, argued with, disagreed with, and debated with others here and on other MB. At no time have I ever thought about whether they disrespected me or not. Likewise I do not think or know that they, conversly, respect me. It just doesn't matter to me. I don't have the energy to invest in whether a bunch of vitual strangers respect me, or to stop and overthink every word I type to insure I don't disrespect some one.

I didn't come here with the notion that I would be respected by all and loved by the masses. I accept that it takes all kinds, and I am going to find all kinds here, just like I do every day in RL.

Respect has become an overused word, IMO. Somewhere many people have come to the conclussion that respect is deserved, not earned. That respect is a  birthright. There are people whom I disagree with vehemantly with, whose choices I do not embrace, yet I respect their right to do so. Do I respect those individuals? Not really, but am I really suppose to?

OTOH, I have had debates or disagreements with people I fully respect and have said an unkind word or two in the process of debating/arguing. Was I disrespectful in saying the unkind word<s> ?  Maybe, but to those who know me, that wouldn't cross their minds.

If you are concluding that I do not think respectfullness is an important quality in a person, you are wrong. I abhore bad manners and disrespectful people. As I said, however, respect is a relative term and how I apply respectfullness, may not be the way others apply it. However, when I see what I consider disrespectfullness on a MB/forum I just shrug it off.< perhaps with a quick retort of some kind if it was aimed at me [;)] > 
When I go to the grocery store I do not expect every shopper in the place to be respectful to me, it would be nice, but it just isn't realistic. I apply the same standards here.

                               mbmbn



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