quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile
Hence where a slave is a reflection of the owner.  Not everybody here is into high TPE levels as well.  It's a diverse crowd in BDSM world.  But what the hell there are a lot of Doms, Subs, slaves and switches that don't have "common courtesy".. it just takes all kinds of people that make this world the interesting place that it is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

Well now here's the thing. If I feel I'm being respectful and you feel I am not, just who is right? Our ideas as to what constitutes "respectful" may differ greatly and so, when I post what I believe is my idea/viewpoint about something, it just may violate what your idea/viewpoint is, both in content and in how it's presented.

When I post in this and other forums, I am posting my views. If they are my Master's views I state that they are. However, if they are mine, then I post them as I see fit. I am much more interested in getting what I'm trying to say into some sort of readable and understandable format than I am in whether you or anyone else has hurt feelings because of what I'm saying. That said, I don't go out of my way to say things that are intentionally hurtful, but I do say what I think.

As to being a reflection of my Master, well... my Master enjoys that I am an intelligent, thinking woman. He stands solidly by a creed of "say what you mean, mean what you say" and if I am to be a reflection of him and all he stands for, then that's what I'll do. And if that offends you or anyone else, then honestly, there is some responsibility here for you to take charge of your emotions and responses. By this I mean, you have a choice. Read for content or read with your feelings on your sleeve, because quite simply, I don't know you or anyone else that's posting and so, I'm not writing in order to attack - even if my viewpoint is in opposition to yours.

As far as deference to a dominant verses a submissive, here in these forums, I focus on ideas. I really don't care if the person voicing their idea is a dominant or a submissive. I don't care if the person is Gorean or into bondage or SM or anything else. It's about the ideas here and frankly, dominant or submissive, my ideas have just as much validity as anyone else's - even if the other person expressing his or her idea is a dominant.

If I were a dominant, hearing "Yes Sir, Yes Sir, Yes Sir" might be flattering, but in the discussion of ideas and points of view, someone simply deferring to me would be insulting to say the least. And conversely, as a submissive, what's insulting is to have my points of view discarded and/or denigrated simply because I'm a submissive.

First and foremost, I am a thinking woman who spends perhaps an inordinate amount of time contemplating this life and how I live it. As such, as I've already said, my points of view have just as much validity as anyone else who happens to call him or herself a dominant. And because of my belief in that, my posts may seem to some to not be very respectful because I do not defer when it comes to ideas. If I believe I'm wrong, I'll admit to being wrong, but if I believe I'm right, I'll stand by what I say, even if someone believes that to do so would be somehow disrespectful.

Beyond that, I'd suggest that when reading these forums, take what works for you and leave the rest.

juliet

quote:

ORIGINAL: annare
 i suppose one of the things i'm most frustrated with is the way that submissives often address Dominants when they disaprove of something that has been said. As if Them expressing Their opinion is somehow a personal attack on their own lifestyle.  

quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot
Not being snarky, just curious: Why have you limited "common courtesy" to submissives ?

 

 Perhaps its my Gorean background but, i was always trained that a slave is to be respectful to all Dominants, not necessarily to submit to Them for obvious reasons but, always to be respectful.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyIce
I should not even use the word irk, I think there is a new breed of submissive

quote:

The type that feels any behavior is acceptable, often it is amusing. I fully expect them to rant and scream about how they will act any way they like,

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyIce
I should not even use the word irk, I think there is a new breed of submissive

Just to show how we all have very different ideas of what is "disrespectful," I would state here that I personally find this statement a little bit so.  "Breed" of submissive?  Isn't that assuming just a little strongly that submissives fall into one big category and anyone who is of this "new breed" is just stepping outside those bounds?  Maybe not, but that's how I take it.  So, since I take it that way and may find it offensive, does that mean it is?  Probably not.  It's all in our own personal views.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
Yeah! 'New breed of submissive' indeed. How about genetically modified submissive? Jeeeessshh. [;)]

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyIce

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ORIGINAL: cjenny

Irk.

Yup it used to really bother me, I am not a person used to snide remarks and casual rudeness. It still bugs me to a degree but it is not something I can change in others, I can only change how I react to it.

I should not even use the word irk, I think there is a new breed of submissive.
The type that feels any behavior is acceptable, often it is amusing.
I fully expect them to rant and scream about how they will act any way they like,
it is their normal everyday chant and rant on here.
It actually becomes boring after a while.

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ORIGINAL: yourMissTress

quote:

ORIGINAL: annare

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyIce

I do not see where she said it bothered her, in fact she said several times it does not bother her.
She feels as I do, that the way you behave online is a reflection of who you really are.
I don't know why so many can't understand her point.
I also agree with her, there are many I dismiss because I don't like the way they conduct themselves on line.

Thank You, Ma'am... its good to know that i managed to get this through to Someone. *giggles softly*

I agree with this idea that the manner with which a person conducts themselves online is indicative of their character.  There are so many people who are, or seem to be, very nice and well mannered people in life, who are not as they seem to be and only let their true nature show in what they feel to be an anonymous or shielded existence.   They let loose the leash on their prejudiced thoughts and let racial, religious, misogynist, or misandrist slurs fly from their fingertips when hiding safely behind their monitors.  All of the hate and fear that they bottle up daily is free to wander about on their keyboards and appear on the monitors of all who enter the chatrooms or message boards on which they post, revealing their character without revealing their face.

This is not limited, as LA stated, to our lifestyle, and neither is our lifestyle free of it, and a sub or slave shouldn't somehow be above the rest of humanity.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
Wonderful post! I totally agree, you have some submissive's here that literally scare me.
I see absolutely nothing submissive about some of them {mainly males}, but then many
people are only submissive with the right person or in the bedroom! hahaha
It does indeed take all kinds, and you will see that here!
**Let me add, you may have a submissive heart, is it who and what you are**
Many here only have that capability when it suits them or is required of them.
It could be who you really are, many here are situationally submissive at best.
Peace

Hello MzMia.  Only 12 more days now to Independence Day that you are so anticipating!  You and I usually find ourselves agreeing here on the forums but this post is one that I feel the need to offer a differing viewpoint on.  I hope no disrespect or offense is taken because certainly none is intended.  Here goes[:)]..............

Overall on the boards, it is accepted that we are to be of the attitude that everyone's "kink" is fine and not to be belittled if they enjoy it.  Also, even though debates crop up fairly often about the difference between subs and slaves and whether or not one group is "better" or "deeper into" this, it is also generally accepted by most that one group is not inherently better than the other and all are accepted for what they are.  Lately, I've noticed a mini-trend of posts against what you have referred to above as those who are "situationally submissive."  This term, I suppose, would apply to the examples you gave:  only submissive with the "right person," only submissive in the "bedroom," or when it "suits" them or is "required" of them.  Whenever subs/slaves are seen as fitting this description, they seem to be described as basically fake - not "real" submissives but someone who just "puts on an act" whenever they get ready to and feel like it and are in the right situation with the right person.

Being situationally submissive is okay, really whatever works for the individual is okay.

First of all, IF that were the case, I don't see the problem.  If that's what works for them - to be "bedroom submissives" - then that is THEIR kink and just as valid as any other around here.  However, though there are some folks like that, I tend to believe that most aren't.  I tend to feel that there are many subs/slaves whose submissiveness gets questioned simply because they are publically assertive.  I certainly fit this description.  I have always been an outspoken, opinionated, assertive person.  That did not end when I met Master nor does He have any desire for it to end.  I show common courtesy when it is extended to me but I don't have any desire to defer to others just because I am His slave and am submissive to Him. 

As funny or worthy of scorn as it may seem for a sub/slave to be "situationally submissive", that is exactly what my Master wants and expects.  He has zero desire for a slave who is always submissive to all people.  That works for some and that is totally acceptable for them.  He chose me as His slave because He liked who I was.  He liked that I am strong, intelligent, capable, independent, opinionated, and articulate.  He loves that I didn't just live my life submissive to anyone who happened to be in the area and that I didn't and don't defer to anyone simply because they think or say I should.  He saw me for who I was and chose me as His slave and doesn't expect that I will change all that I am or fake being someone else just to appear to be submissive enough to outsiders looking in.

As far as a "submissive heart," that's open to interpretation by anyone who reads it and I'm sure we'd all have varying definitions of just what it means.  If having it means that I'm supposed to defer to anyone who doesn't also identify as a sub/slave, then I don't.  But, if having a "submissive heart" means that I live to please my Master and that my heart is full of the need to serve Him, then I most certainly do.  I am submissive to Him always (not just in the "bedroom") and not because it is "required" of me or when it "suits" me. 

I do think I see the point you are making.  I have also seen people who identify as submissive yet seem so overbearing and bossy that, by just a quick glance, it would seem that they would probably make better dominants.  To me, that is an entirely different example than subs/slaves like myself who really ARE "situationally submissive" in the sense that we submit only to the one who we have agreed to submit to or the one who owns us.  To me, there's a huge difference between the two examples.  Also, Master said that if being "situationally submissive" is a bad thing, then wouldn't being "situationally dominant" also be?  Why is it that so many people expect a sub/slave to defer to anyone anytime to be considered "submissive" enough but yet no one expects doms/masters to go around cracking the whip on everyone all the time?  I think that's an excellent point.  Just as I don't defer or submit to strangers, neither does He expect strangers to defer or submit TO Him.  It works both ways and, for us, makes just as little sense.  Anyway, just thought I'd offer a different perspective.  Hope it made sense............slave luci

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ORIGINAL: yourMissTress

quote:

ORIGINAL: annare

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyIce

I do not see where she said it bothered her, in fact she said several times it does not bother her.
She feels as I do, that the way you behave online is a reflection of who you really are.
I don't know why so many can't understand her point.
I also agree with her, there are many I dismiss because I don't like the way they conduct themselves on line.

Thank You, Ma'am... its good to know that i managed to get this through to Someone. *giggles softly*

I agree with this idea that the manner with which a person conducts themselves online is indicative of their character.  There are so many people who are, or seem to be, very nice and well mannered people in life, who are not as they seem to be and only let their true nature show in what they feel to be an anonymous or shielded existence.   They let loose the leash on their prejudiced thoughts and let racial, religious, misogynist, or misandrist slurs fly from their fingertips when hiding safely behind their monitors.  All of the hate and fear that they bottle up daily is free to wander about on their keyboards and appear on the monitors of all who enter the chatrooms or message boards on which they post, revealing their character without revealing their face.

This is not limited, as LA stated, to our lifestyle, and neither is our lifestyle free of it, and a sub or slave shouldn't somehow be above the rest of humanity.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
**You hit the nail on the head, many of the submissives online are overbearing, demanding, critical and bossy!
I need to stop looking at what they identify themselves as, and treat all the same on the boards.**
slaveluci, it is okay to agree to disagree, you disagree in a positive and sweet way.
That is what makes the difference, and I still like the way you operate.[;)]

quote:

ORIGINAL: annare

i have a tendency to refrain from issuing comments on Dominant's behavior... i realize that it's silly but, i don't beleive its my place to comment on Their actions. Perhaps its my Gorean background but, i was always trained that a slave is to be respectful to all Dominants, not necessarily to submit to Them for obvious reasons but, always to be respectful.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyIce
I should not even use the word irk, I think there is a new breed of submissive

Just to show how we all have very different ideas of what is "disrespectful," I would state here that I personally find this statement a little bit so.  "Breed" of submissive?  Isn't that assuming just a little strongly that submissives fall into one big category and anyone who is of this "new breed" is just stepping outside those bounds? 

quote:

The type that feels any behavior is acceptable, often it is amusing. I fully expect them to rant and scream about how they will act any way they like,

THAT is the essence of being a "real, true" sub/slave, not the fact that I'm willing to change who/what I am on a whim to suit a stranger who thinks I'm not acting submissively enough toward him/her.  It may be "amusing" and it may be "boring" but that's how it be[;)]...........slave luci    

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears


This is the crux of the matter right here. Goreans have specific expectations and protocals for their slaves, this doesn't carry over, necessarily, to non gorean groups D/s, subs, non gorean slaves.

From what i understand of gor slaves are to be submissive and deferrential to ALL the free and may not criticize or question them.  They are to be pleasing at all times. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst
Great points luci.
I also found that statement to be dismissive of anyone not practicing this in a (their) particular way. 
I think anyone professing to be either this or that, should be able to handle the way another posts online as if they were people and not just a refection of a title that holds little meaning beyond the boards, or their own relationship.
I could create a dominant name, but that would not make me a dominant.  Or, I could call myself a kangaroo, I do have a few pouches around here.  On these boards, we are all just people. 
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears


This is the crux of the matter right here. Goreans have specific expectations and protocals for their slaves, this doesn't carry over, necessarily, to non gorean groups D/s, subs, non gorean slaves.

From what i understand of gor slaves are to be submissive and deferrential to ALL the free and may not criticize or question them.  They are to be pleasing at all times. 

You know what I find amazing? I have a number of friends who identify as Gorean. Unlike what's been presented here as "Gorean," my views and words are respected - because my actions meet and match my words. I live what I believe and I don't pretend what I don't. 

From what I can gather from the OP, that just "shouldn't be" the case - even though it is.

IN fact, while I don't identify as Gorean, my friends who do have no problems with the fact that I have an opinion and can voice it if I choose. In fact, one of the dominants (Masters) and I always have discussions that frequently end up rather heated. Both of us find the exchange fun and enlightening - even if neither of us can convince the other of the rightness of either of our positions. Superfluous and insincere pseudo-deference is not tolerated by anyone I know personally who happen to be Gorean. 

Words are very rarely full indications of genuine respect, and like the third daughter in King Leer who upon being asked if she loved her father said she couldn't answer that because words were not enough, I don't feel respect is something I have to proclaim and protest in order to have. Nor do I feel respect means that my mind has ceased to function.

juliet

quote:

ORIGINAL: annare

i've already prepared myself for some nasty posts in reply to this thread but, after having spent several days reading through these forums and responding to a few, something that has always urked me has worked its way to the surface and i just needed to say something.

i wonder where in the subby training manual that evidently i never received it says that once a submissive is collared, she has the right to say anything she pleases without regard or respect for O/others. Maybe i'm a strange one... but, isn't it possible to voice a difference in opinion without verbally abusing people and making yourself look like a complete brat? i realize that once a sub/slave is owned, technically the only One she has to please is her Dom/Master but, what happened to common courtesy and respect? Am i the only one that feels this way? Is it completely out of character?

quote:

ORIGINAL: farieanne

Hi,
i try to be respectful to everyone rather D/type or /s type. my Master feels, and i happen to agree with Him, that a sub/slave is a reflection of his/her Owner/Dom. i think if i was disrespectful i would be punished. No offence meant but it would probably be more sever if it were to a Dom. It's not that they are better than a sub/slave but it's like showing respect to an elder. Or is that taught any more? Just my opinion.