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RE: Telling Our Stories - 6/26/2007 7:09:25 AM   
KMsAngel


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before i got to the last few posts, i was thinking, why burst into the movie with a fully fledged bdsm theme. introduce people gradually. the last post and the one previous - about the 4 smaller dialogues within the main one - sound like a great meshing. surely there's enough mild bdsm themes in the vanilla world that the overt symbols could be shown what they REALLY mean in this world within a world.

music is hugely powerful as well. woud it make sense to get some of the music either written or taken from mainstream (though prob expensive) previous to a script to show how it's already in the big wide world?

just my .03 cents (hey, aus money isn't the same as US)

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RE: Telling Our Stories - 6/26/2007 9:15:39 AM   
charismagirrl


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Yes music is such a hugely powerful thing and would be important.

i love the vingette idea because it could show a few different options, including one of the broken ones.

bladedom- i know it may seem like the broken individual would be more of a female slave to a Male Master ( f sub to a  M Dom) but women don't have the market cornered on childhood abuse.


Also julietsierra... peronsonally i think that the vingette thing is a great idea and it doesn't smack of porno if done properly, more of a Pulp Fiction or hell there are other movies where the characters interact together but their stories are told seperately but i haven't had enough coffee yet to actually think about what they are.





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RE: Telling Our Stories - 6/26/2007 9:44:01 AM   
HornyToadsMI


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Thank you for this facinating thread!  i will pass this tread onto another friend of mine on this site who loves to write.  Are You looking for a documentary, or fiction?

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RE: Telling Our Stories - 6/26/2007 10:02:12 AM   
bladedom


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quote:

Thank you for this facinating thread! i will pass this tread onto another friend of mine on this site who loves to write. Are You looking for a documentary, or fiction?
quote:

ORIGINAL: HornyToadsMI

Thank you for this facinating thread!  i will pass this tread onto another friend of mine on this site who loves to write.  Are You looking for a documentary, or fiction?


Both.


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RE: Telling Our Stories - 6/26/2007 10:05:06 AM   
MaamJay


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I like the vignette idea also because it can cover the different groupings involved in bdsm (male Dom with fem sub, female Domme with male sub, also same sex pairings, switchy types and even some poly!) and also depict people from different backgrounds. I firmly believe it should avoid reinforcing the stereotype that people come into this because they are "broken", I think that's a very dangerous thing to do. Fine that it shows how they become fulfilled and things like their self-esteem may improve etc ... but not seriously damaged to start with. That was very much my criticism of the Secretary, they were both badly warped and didn't really know what they were doing and neither did they take the time/trouble to find out ... everything we here at collarme would give them heaps of shit for! I think it would be more positive to (at least in part) show that there are a lot of highly intelligent, professional thinking people involved, who run great risk of being "outed" and perhaps losing jobs etc, but who so firmly believe that this is who they really are that they go down this path anyway. In fact the diversity of people involved in bdsm is a lesson in itself. I think it should show that being a sub isn't a position of weakness, in fact it shows great courage and strength of character to allow oneself to be so vulnerable, so trusting, and to put one's wants aside. And I definitely think it should break the stereotype of Dominants being domineering/bossy people ... instead it should show how this role requires quick thinking, decision-making, responsibility and care and concern for their sub. Surely along the way we can explain some of the key things like safe calls and safe words by having the characters arrange them, use them, or perhaps neglect to do so and learn a lesson! And we can also show that while we are all different, and don't always agree, we do come together at times in small groups and communities to help, support and educate each other, whether it's online as in this forum or in real such as at munches and play parties and Dungeon workshops! And for once, we can show some realistic play!! Some of the very B-grade (or was that Z-grade??) movies I have seen either have subs doing way too much moaning for way too little impact ... or have ridiculous, impractical and downright dangerous scenes that could kill someone if it was imitated. One I remember was a latex-suited and hooded sub, bound to an upright religious-style cross on a beach and left there. Through the movie artifice of the tide coming in and out and the sky going dark, light, dark, light etc it seemed like days passed and she was still bound there moaning weakly! No food, water, toilet relief or movement (or supervision by the Dominant either!). Now sorry, but even Jesus didn't last that long crucified! And it wasn't the nails that made the difference (if you ever want to read something gory read a medical explanation of how crucifixion kills *shudder*). (PS I don't take his name in vain, I am a believer, so please don't start the fire!) I also like the idea that the conflict shouldn't come from within or between characters in their vignettes, but should show how they work together, how they complement each other, how the power exchange is open between them to create a whole that is greater than the sum of its parts.

Surely WIITWD is spectacular enough to vanillas when portrayed accurately that we can avoid the sensationalism that is so often a part of movies and just tell a damned good story! I think this is a totally awesome idea, and I really hope it gets off the ground!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]



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RE: Telling Our Stories - 6/26/2007 10:05:08 AM   
bladedom


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quote:

bladedom- i know it may seem like the broken individual would be more of a female slave to a Male Master ( f sub to a M Dom) but women don't have the market cornered on childhood abuse.


Sorry, my reply was incomplete. I meant to add that our stories will include male & female dominants, slaves, gay, lesbian, bi-sexual, and transgender. In short, everybody you know, in all types of persuasions and combinations.

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RE: Telling Our Stories - 6/26/2007 10:06:47 AM   
MissOchistic


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quote:

want to generate a bit of kinky sexual tension on CSI with Grissom.


**melts**


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RE: Telling Our Stories - 6/26/2007 10:24:04 AM   
bladedom


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quote:

I like the vignette idea also because it can cover the different groupings involved in bdsm


No need to make every project full length, there's a market in shorts even in festival. If the story only needs 10 minutes of time to tell thenthat's how long it should be.

I do think it is almost as much trouble to do a short as a longer film due to logistics, assembling a crew and such. But you should tell the story you want told with as much artistic merit as possible.

Not that porn is a bad thing but there's quite alot of it out there and very little of what we're talking about.




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RE: Telling Our Stories - 6/26/2007 10:42:11 AM   
HornyToadsMI


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I would love to see a documentary about the daily lives of D/s.  From different aspects.  I think if it was done more from a "here we are and this is who we really are" instead of the romantic "girl finds boy, boy whips girl, girl falls in love" more people may understand some of the many intimate details of real lives.  Vanilla folks may then understand that some of their lives may actually incorporate some of D/s aspects, and that we are not some warps sick individuals. 

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RE: Telling Our Stories - 6/26/2007 11:05:25 AM   
lateralist1


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I loved 'The Secretary' but not for the same reason as everyone else seems to have done but because it actually showed just how much of our 'lifestyle' is rediculous.
People who do it don't play at it they live it.
I really hate the word 'play'.
If a man goes down on his knees to me I want it to be where he wants to stay symbolically, hopefully for the rest of his life.If not then I don't want him to do it.
And I still believe that in the end of the movie he was submissive to her.
But then I was abused so I'm 'broken' and therefore my story just wouldn't be acceptable.
Whatever the story it doesn't really matter as long as it's told honestly.

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RE: Telling Our Stories - 6/26/2007 12:39:35 PM   
MagiksSlave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

i wrote a musical about BDSM i would be happy to share it with anyone who asks.


LOL I love it, please tell me there is a tap danceing number in it!!!! LOL.

Magik's slave

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RE: Telling Our Stories - 6/26/2007 2:12:39 PM   
submittous


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

i wrote a musical about BDSM i would be happy to share it with anyone who asks.


LOL I love it, please tell me there is a tap danceing number in it!!!! LOL.

Magik's slave

I always thought BDSM lent itself more to a Rock Opera than a musical.... I'm sure Tina Turner and Elton John will fit in somehow.

Seriously, it is worth noting that writing a good screen play is not easy, even for experienced professionals. I've known long time writers who are pleased when one in five turns out to be sellable much less good quality. It is also worth noting that a screen play that is sellable and shootable is worth a minimum 100k.

Good scripts are hard to come by with any theme, forcing BDSM or any other focus into a script instead of letting the story flow from its own juices makes creating a solid script even harder...

On the other hand we too would love to see ANY movie that portrays our chosen way of life in real and positive ways...

good luck

Bill and Iris


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RE: Telling Our Stories - 6/26/2007 2:25:38 PM   
bladedom


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quote:

It is also worth noting that a screen play that is sellable and shootable is worth a minimum 100k.


The entire budget for Primer was $7,000 and it won at Sundance in 2004. The economic model for movie making is just not the same as it was even two or three years ago.

http://www.primermovie.com
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0390384/


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RE: Telling Our Stories - 6/26/2007 3:33:00 PM   
submittous


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bladedom

quote:

It is also worth noting that a screen play that is sellable and shootable is worth a minimum 100k.


The entire budget for Primer was $7,000 and it won at Sundance in 2004. The economic model for movie making is just not the same as it was even two or three years ago.

http://www.primermovie.com
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0390384/




You are correct, the film maker apparently gave no value to the screen play, the editing, the directing and likely his co-starring in the movie, plus somehow he got a cast and crew of 17 to work for 5 weeks for very little (that is 1.6 man years of labor).  He shot with super 16mm film edited it himself and had it blown up to 35mm which I assume was the bulk of the stated cost of production. In real life the cost of just feeding a cast and crew of 17 for 5 weeks much less paying them for their services would approach the 7k budget.

You think maybe his stated "budget" was a gimmick to bring attention at film festivals?

Bill

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RE: Telling Our Stories - 6/26/2007 3:59:38 PM   
charismagirrl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lateralist1

And I still believe that in the end of the movie he was submissive to her.
But then I was abused so I'm 'broken' and therefore my story just wouldn't be acceptable.
Whatever the story it doesn't really matter as long as it's told honestly



Why on earth would you think your story unacceptable because you are broken? So many of us are, which was the point when i took what MercnBeth mentioned about "lee's" character in "The Secretary"

Broken is truth and honesty for so many, the only issue would be vanilla's thinking that it was part and parcel for being involved in this lifestyle...like ONLY the broken ones can find happiness in something so bizarre.

When in truth, we are all broken to some extent, all with our own cracks etc....some worse than others, some willing to admit it and some who won't and SOME who would just HATE to see the broken ones portrayed because it forces them to look at themselves and ask too many questions of things they aren't ready to know the answers to yet.

Totally acceptable...

Just curious, as to your point of view...what is it that you found portrayed in "the Secretary" as "our" ridiculousness?


_____________________________

For today i won't say but...
For today i wont say just...
For today i will simply obey....
For today i will trust that You are right...
For always i will be your imperfect slave

http://www.mycollarspace.com

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RE: Telling Our Stories - 6/26/2007 4:12:44 PM   
bladedom


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quote:


You think maybe his stated "budget" was a gimmick to bring attention at film festivals?


No, Shane Carruth has talked extensively about the process of making the movie and the $7,000 was no stunt. Shooting nights and weekends with crews willing to work for expenses is not unheard of. He got someone to spring for a 35mm print once the movei got accepted at Sundance, but even that isn't required anymore. You can stay in digital format from the time of shooting the movie to the moment you show it.

And BTW, I think the screenplay for Primer is brillant.

Vera Farmiga made a career out of tiny movies like 'Down to the Bown' which is an extended version of a short by the same name. Shot with a Canon Xl-2 on a miniscule budget. The XL-2 and the Panasonic HVX200 both support adapters for lenses for true depth of field. They work in natural light and productions willing to go the modified Dogme95 route can do run & gun shoots with little problem. You just don't need huge crews to shoot and by crafting stories that don't need huge crowd scenes, that place their action homnes, cars, and locations you can scrounge you can shoot very fast with great quality.

I edited my documentary on a MacBook with a $350 copy of Final Cut Express and $175 1/2 terabyte external drive. Who needs tape when you can stack cheap drives that allow you to shoot in full HD? By being careful to shoot only what you need, ensuring that your sound is the very best you can make it you limit the need for reshoots. On the other hand, shooting digital allows your actors to improvise, stay in the moment and do takes as long as you want.

Speaking of actors, second to a good script are good actors as a requirement for success. The new SAG indie rules are a Godsend. productions should always cover food, transportation, and the welfare of the actors. Shooting is the Midwest or other locations outside of pricey locals means you get afforable actors who are as skilled as ones in Hollywood.

BTW, some of those Hollywood actors are available, assuming you are willing to go the D-list route. But that isn't always bad. Peter Fonda's career was over and then he did Ulee's Gold.

I love the $200 million dollar movies like Spiderman, but I like inexpensive little movies too.

Get me a good script, written with the means and budget available in mind and it can be made.







< Message edited by bladedom -- 6/26/2007 4:15:22 PM >

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RE: Telling Our Stories - 6/26/2007 6:44:51 PM   
lighthearted


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quote:


Shooting nights and weekends with crews willing to work for expenses is not unheard of.



sure, it's not unheard of, but it's nothing you'd want to do on a regular basis.  having worked on both really big budget films and really low budget films, union vs non-union, etc etc, it's my opinion that you are more likely going to have a crew that shows up, on time, all the time, properly prepared with all the proper resources in place if you have more money to spend.

don't get me wrong, I think today's movie budgets are vastly inflated, but to expect crew members, casts, etc to work exclusively on movies made for $7K is totally unrealistic.

edited to add the quote (!)

< Message edited by lighthearted -- 6/26/2007 6:47:27 PM >


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RE: Telling Our Stories - 6/26/2007 6:47:08 PM   
bladedom


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quote:


don't get me wrong, I think today's movie budgets are vastly inflated, but to expect crew members, casts, etc to work exclusively on movies made for $7K is totally unrealistic.


Actually the budgets I have in mind are $15K cash/$15K Deferred.

On the other hand, Primer exists as evidence that it can be done, so never say never.

And no, we are NOT looking for any money.


< Message edited by bladedom -- 6/26/2007 6:51:59 PM >

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RE: Telling Our Stories - 6/26/2007 6:51:44 PM   
lighthearted


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bladedom

quote:


don't get me wrong, I think today's movie budgets are vastly inflated, but to expect crew members, casts, etc to work exclusively on movies made for $7K is totally unrealistic.


Actually the budgets I have in mind are $15K cash/$15K Deferred.

On the other hand, Primer exists as evidence that it can be done, so never say never.



all I'm saying is...expect it more to be a labor of love, rather than a professional operation.  I'm not saying it's unrealistic to make films like that, but it is unrealistic to make them on a regular basis without giving yourself a heart attack.

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RE: Telling Our Stories - 6/26/2007 6:53:48 PM   
LadyJaye


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I have looked through this tread and it does seem that many here have wonderful ideas that could be used in a Story Line.  Now if someone can just intiate some of this to text. 

There are many people that watched a series here in Canada called Kink that was on Showcase-Television without Borders. and on BRAVO.  This series was about all types of real people and couples involved in BDSM and the Fetish communities.  It was well followed for 5 years on Canadian TV before they stopped producing it.  I know that there are many who would like to know where these people are now and how they progressed from the time they were appearing on this series.

I appeared in this program, KINK, and I still feel the fall out of it by people walking up to me that I do not know and saying " I saw you on TV didn't I?"  oyyyy.. slightly cheek warming when in a grocery store.. then also there are the co-workers asking the same questions. Some who watched wrote me here on Collarme and said they enjoyed the program... But.. I feel over all, my words on that documentary were important and we all have important things we want others to hear and understand about us.

I guess what I am saying is yes people do want to see the true stories of our Lifestyle.  The highs and the lows of it.  What is there to talk about? What about the place that many started, how they developed from there.. what draws people to this lifestyle.  What about those that are curious and can get some support by seeing others and know that they are not insane or alone.  Who are the people who get involved in BDSM?. why do they enjoy it.. how does it feel to Dominate or Submit?. How do you deal with the dark secrets we carry and what happens when they get out?  The struggles, the successes the confusion and the support.  I am not a writer but if I was these are things I think anyone would find interesting.


I had to make comment on this bit of post I read .....It touches a personal heart string .. well done...

quote:

What I'd really like to see is the story of a strong, intelligent woman who is unfulfilled because she has spent her life trying to live according to society's norms when at her core she truly has a slave's heart.  Perhaps this doesn't come easy to her, even the initial steps into the lifestyle, and of course there are missteps as she learns who she can trust to lead her to that place of surrender.  And though there are incredibly erotic moment, there's also inner turmoil, and friends/family who just don't get it.  But as she embraces her path, even and especially the painful parts of it, she finds that she becomes truly free for the first time in her life.  Of course it will take a loving, strong and wise Master to lead her there.


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