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RE: Science Fiction/Fantasy/Horror Books that Click wit... - 7/20/2007 7:53:22 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

If Joanna Russ is misandry then John Norman is misogyny.

I do not dispute either assertion.

quote:

I think that Joanna Russ pushes the edges in "The Female Male" exploring the concept of gender and what it means.

She misses the point, though. Some astute observations, yes. Otherwise viable, no. All IMHO.

quote:

I think it was very edgy to do that through a female characters especially at a time when main female characters were uncommon.

I'd have to thank Faramir for pointing me in the direction of LeGuin as a more palatable case of this.

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RE: Science Fiction/Fantasy/Horror Books that Click wit... - 7/20/2007 8:23:35 PM

bipolarber

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I think the reason so many of us are avoiding the Gor books is, simply, they already have their own little nation of followers. The thing that beats me is why they should have inspired the formation of such a cult. I tried reading a few of them, and frankly, they are about as well written as some of those crappy "Planet Stories" pulps from the 1930's. You could rip the covers off of them and put new titles on like "Girls For the Slime God" or some other nonsense, and it would be just as logical. I guess it's just that it's pure adolecent male wish fulfillment.

As one BDSM author put it: "Science fiction has Trekkies... BDSM has goreans."

Oh, and a word about Joanna Russ... since I'm bisexual, I guess my take on what makes an interesting novel about sexuality, and dominance, a "good read" is somewhat skewed. I actually find the themes she explores about gender, its definition, it's meaning to be just as exciting as something more physical, and fluffier... like Anne Rice's Beauty books. As you say, just IMHO.

Oh, and since one of the other posts said they were wanting books that inspired and informed our desires, which could be SF or fantasy or horror... I'm going to STRONGLY suggest one that is historical in nature: "The 12 Ceasars." I suppose this book could also be titled, "The Sex Lives of the Roman Emporors." Much of it is rather boring, but every few pages, you'll come across a little factoid (Like how Ceasar Tiberius retired to a private island stocked with about 300 sex slaves culled from all over the empire.) Stuff like that just sets the wheels in my head spinning!

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RE: Science Fiction/Fantasy/Horror Books that Click wit... - 7/20/2007 8:39:32 PM

SunnyTawse

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OOps! Sorry, BBBTBW... I missed that you had already mentioned Regiment of Women.

Sunny

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RE: Science Fiction/Fantasy/Horror Books that Click wit... - 7/21/2007 12:44:51 AM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

The thing that beats me is why they should have inspired the formation of such a cult.

Timing. Right time to express ideas that resonated with some people.

quote:

I tried reading a few of them, and frankly, they are about as well written as some of those crappy "Planet Stories" pulps from the 1930's.

I concur. The prose, plot, storytelling and such is not to my standard.

quote:

I guess it's just that it's pure adolecent male wish fulfillment.

Actually, no, there is more to them, though I'm not a Gorean.
Leonidas made a clear and coherent argument about some aspects of it.
Others have covered other aspects of it, mostly less convincingly and less clearly.
There's a fair bit of stuff there, if it's your cup of tea.
It is not mine.

quote:

As one BDSM author put it: "Science fiction has Trekkies... BDSM has goreans."

That just reflects the gap between the communities, and I get why the gap is there.
No need to be condescending, though, to/from any party.

quote:

"The 12 Ceasars." (snip)

Now that was by far one of the most interesting contributions to this thread so far.
And to my "To Read" list, let's not forget.
Ah, ye good ole' days.

(Yes, that was a joke. While I'd like to see voluntary slavery as an institution, Rome is best left in the past.)

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RE: Science Fiction/Fantasy/Horror Books that Click wit... - 7/21/2007 6:31:48 AM

thetammyjo

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If we expand to other types of mainstream fiction I find the series by Steven Saylor (who used to write SM erotica under another name) to be very good. Not just from a historical sense but he has a lot of honesty about slavery in the late Republican and early Imperial world.

Rosemary Rowe is also fairly honest but I get tired of our main character getting kidnapped and beaten in every book. Come on. Get an escort dude or take one of your slaves with you at least.

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 7/21/2007 6:40:04 AM >

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RE: Science Fiction/Fantasy/Horror Books that Click wit... - 7/23/2007 1:38:55 PM

AAkasha

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I hope some people are still reading this thread and can answer a question that I had (I think I have read most of the posts so if it was covered and I missed it, my apologies).

In recalling books that do have a kinky/femdom "edge" or flavor to them, can anyone recall one that features a scenario were a villianess actually "falls" for a man she's interrogating/torturing/against in the process of being relentlessly cruel to him, and there's a sexual/intimate tension as a result?

Akasha

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RE: Science Fiction/Fantasy/Horror Books that Click wit... - 7/23/2007 2:01:50 PM

thetammyjo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I hope some people are still reading this thread and can answer a question that I had (I think I have read most of the posts so if it was covered and I missed it, my apologies).

In recalling books that do have a kinky/femdom "edge" or flavor to them, can anyone recall one that features a scenario were a villianess actually "falls" for a man she's interrogating/torturing/against in the process of being relentlessly cruel to him, and there's a sexual/intimate tension as a result?

Akasha

No, I can't think of one. Though many books from the early days of science fiction (and sadly later) had the woman in charge who finds the "right man" and learns to love to submit as is "natural". There's a Joanna Russ essay about the trends in literature about sexual equality along a similar vein though the name escapes me.

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RE: Science Fiction/Fantasy/Horror Books that Click wit... - 7/23/2007 9:27:16 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

In recalling books that do have a kinky/femdom "edge" or flavor to them, can anyone recall one that features a scenario were a villianess actually "falls" for a man she's interrogating/torturing/against in the process of being relentlessly cruel to him, and there's a sexual/intimate tension as a result?

The Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind.

A woman there (Denna) captures a man, interrogates him, tortures him, and eventually falls for him, in her own way. For various reasons, he eventually comes to reciprocate, in his way. To say much more would be a major spoiler.

IIRC, it happens in book #1, though, so no reason not to read.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

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RE: Science Fiction/Fantasy/Horror Books that Click wit... - 7/23/2007 9:42:55 PM

AAkasha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

In recalling books that do have a kinky/femdom "edge" or flavor to them, can anyone recall one that features a scenario were a villianess actually "falls" for a man she's interrogating/torturing/against in the process of being relentlessly cruel to him, and there's a sexual/intimate tension as a result?

The Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind.

A woman there (Denna) captures a man, interrogates him, tortures him, and eventually falls for him, in her own way. For various reasons, he eventually comes to reciprocate, in his way. To say much more would be a major spoiler.

IIRC, it happens in book #1, though, so no reason not to read.

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RE: Science Fiction/Fantasy/Horror Books that Click wit... - 7/24/2007 8:50:06 AM

BeachMystress

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Novels with a strong female lead character have always rung true for me BDSMwise. This started in HS when I was reading romance books. So many of the females in them are submissive but I found several that had kick ass women with good stories. Even after all these years I really recommend Roberta Gellis' Alinor books, starting with Roselynde (republished by harlequin in 2005, so you should be able to find it in a used book store) She works hard to make the books historically accurate and has a pleasing writing style. I still read Roberta Gellis books, though now I read her mystery series (also with a strong female lead - a whoremistress, aka the head whore of her house.)

Also, if you've not done it, pick up some of Bertrice Small's books. Not only are her main characters strong, interesting women.. they also usually end up in harems for a time. Start with Skye O'Malley. I must say that this book gave me a few ideas of what to do to my boyfriends at the time. (Hey, it was 23 year or so ago.. I had no clue BDSM existed. I just knew some of the scenarios in the book were HOT when I thought about turning the tables on a man and doing them to him!) She has a current fantasy series, The World of Hetar that also has BDSM themes. The main character, Lara, is sold into slavery in the beginning of the book. I didn't enjoy the World of Hetar books as much as the Skye O'Malley books, but that was because I love the descriptions of the political situation in the middle ages in her romance books.

Recently, I read the fantasy series by Melanie Rawn that starts with The Ruins of Ambrai. The writing style is not one I prefer, but the themes in the book kept me reading. The second book is better, but you need the background from the first book. The society is Matriarchal. Men are treated the way women often were in the middle ages, being property themselves and unable to own property or have a serious say in things.

There are a couple of mainstream novels with explicit BDSM themes that I recommend:

Panic Snap and Topping from Below by Laura Reese.
My local library actually carries these. Panic Snap is a thriller about a woman with amnesia trying to recover her memory. She ends up in a relationship with a guy who tortures her physically and mentally. Topping from Below is a murder mystery. The sister of the murdered woman becomes the sub of her sister's Dom to try and prove he killed her. I picked them up out of shock to see blatantly BDSM titles in my very conservative library, but they ended up being quite good.

Sex Ghosts and Gumshoes by Bob Gunn
Also written as a mainstream murder thriller novel. It has four main characters; a ghost, a vanilla woman and two "bad guy" Domme. I enjoyed it, though the murder scenes may be a bit much for some. Just breeze over those as the rest of the book is fun and the ghost is pretty sexy.

Murder at Roissy by John Warren is also a BDSM murder mystery. It has good characterizations, but is quite short. It's a good book to read when you don't have a lot of time to devote to reading.

And as far as outright erotica.. on the level of Anne Rice's Exit to Eden novel (another that gave me great ideas what to do to men when I was young) there are Carrie's Story and Safe Word by Molly Weatherfield. While Exit to Eden is Domme/male sub, the Weatherfield two are Dom/femsub. I've seen both of these books shelved in fiction when they both actually belong in Erotica. They are well written, not as male masturbatory aids, but rather exploring the emotions and thoughts of a woman entering BDSM for the first time. The first book has a very hot ponygirl scene in it! After reading it, I want a ponyboy of my very own!

Books with a strong female lead and a sci fi/fantasy bent for fans of Laurel K Hamilton:
Moon Called (Mercy Thompson Series, Book 1) (first in series)
by Patricia Briggs is about a woman who turns into a coyote and was raised by a pack of werewolves but is not a were herself. She has the same smart alec tone as Anita Blake (though she has to play at being submissive or the wolves will eat her) and the books do contain some off-beat humor. (Such as the vampire who drives a van painted to look like Scooby Doo's Mystery Machine.) They're well written and I'm dying for the next book to come out in 2008!

Dead Witch Walking (first in series) by Kim Harrison I almost find the supporting characters in Kim Harrison's books more interesting than her main character. Jinx the pixy steals the show for me! IMHO, each of her books is better than the last.

Bitten (Women of the Otherworld) (first in series.. not all in the series follows the same main characters.)
by Kelley Armstron The main characters change. The first two books in the series focus on the werewolves, then move on to witches and ghosts before back to the werewolf. They are all intertwined with main characters from the other books showing up for cameos. I enjoyed them all.

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RE: Science Fiction/Fantasy/Horror Books that Click wit... - 7/24/2007 6:26:30 PM

angelique510

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I am a big WOT fan. Yes the damane were blatant D/s. But I also saw D/s with the warders and their Aes Sedai. Strong men that were bonded to strong women.

You folks should check out an antholgy series "Hot Blood" "Hotter Blood" and "Hottest Blood" - erotic horror. A few of the authors metioned here were in them. Being anthologies, the stories were hit and miss. But there were at least a couple of good ones in each book. "I shudder at Your Touch" was another book along the same lines.

Some of Tannith Lee's stories have a BDSM feel to them. Especially her book "Red as Blood" a retelling of fairy tails. We all know that a lot of those old fairy tails have some major BDSM elements.

BTW - I like Gor. They're definately not the best written books, not by a long shot, but alot of the underlying philosophies struck a chord with me. It was cool to find some of the beliefs I already held put into print. Unfortunately, a lot of "Goreans" read the books, or more likely just browse the websites, and decide to do some kinky play-acting using only some of the surface aspects of the world. Some of us, though, found our own beliefs, beliefs that we formed years before even hearing of the books, reflected in their pages.

~A

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RE: Science Fiction/Fantasy/Horror Books that Click wit... - 1/12/2008 6:47:44 PM

AAkasha

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I wanted to give this great thread a bump to see if anyone has any new books/novels to add. And not just limited to sci fi/fantasy/horror -- but also adventure, mystery, etc.

Any new ones to add?

Akasha

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RE: Science Fiction/Fantasy/Horror Books that Click wit... - 1/12/2008 7:01:27 PM

bipolarber

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Let's see... I recently saw the movie "Crash" by David Cronenberg, based on the J.G. Ballard novel. The novel, as per usual in these sorts of adaptations, does a much better job of being both thoughtful about the theme, and more of a turn on as erotica. (It IS kink, although perhaps not the usual BDSM.)

A friend of mine was also telling me about a new line of erotica, based on, and in the style of, Edgar Allen Poe. So far, I've only found their version of "Fall of the House of Usher" and I think it's "so-so."

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RE: Science Fiction/Fantasy/Horror Books that Click wit... - 1/12/2008 9:10:14 PM

homedespot

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An Exchange of Hostages. Susan Matthews

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RE: Science Fiction/Fantasy/Horror Books that Click wit... - 1/12/2008 9:35:33 PM

luvzdogtoyz

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Rebecca York - Shadow Of The Moon.

Wonderful book, that has...everything...to do with bdsm. Add in a sexy werewolf guy, and its yummy.

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RE: Science Fiction/Fantasy/Horror Books that Click wit... - 1/13/2008 1:39:39 AM

Feric

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"Songs of the Dancing Gods", by the late Jack L. Chalker, has slavery--both male and female--as a socially accepted institution.

Also, by Chalker, "Medusa", which is the fourth installment in his "Four Lords of the Diamond" series. On the planet Medusa, convicts and repeat offenders are changed through flesh mechanics and sophisticated psychological brainwashing into "Goodtime Girls", state-owned slaves who will do anything and be anything for either their masters or for the good of the state. As Chalker puts it, "Goodtime Girls smile a lot, but they don't exactly think!"

Either way, it's a Dom's paradise.

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RE: Science Fiction/Fantasy/Horror Books that Click wit... - 1/15/2008 12:13:28 PM

mcbride

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wow...some folks really know their SF...and so...a question, ever so slightly off topic, but a Domme wants the answer. *s*

Decades ago, i read a short story in which the protagonist is having sex (forcibly, in some way?) with some sort of creature..and every orgasm makes his dick smaller. I was 90% sure it was an Ellison story, but after scouring my bookshelves, that's down to about 70%.

Ring any bells?

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RE: Science Fiction/Fantasy/Horror Books that Click wit... - 1/15/2008 12:46:16 PM

lablancsecret

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Anything by H.P. Lovecraft.(What the hell does that say about me??)

And thats creepy even to me, but they get me in such a nice and bizarre headspace.

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RE: Science Fiction/Fantasy/Horror Books that Click wit... - 1/15/2008 1:12:29 PM

Decimus

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People have noticed the undertones of WoT aka Wheel of Time which is good though they have missed many of the references with the Forsaken.

The part I am VERY surprised about are the insane number of subtle references in Star Wars books, namely
"Courtship of Princess Leia" by Dave Wolverton (very blatent here)
some of the X-Wing Series of books (subtle)
Many many many of the other books have subtle hints as well.

If you read the undertones of the Star Wars Novels in a majority of them up through a certain point as well as the original trilogy, it shows the "good" societies of the Rebellion / New Republic as female lead (Mon Mothma, Princess Leia, etc) where as the "evil' societies of the Empire, etc are lead by men (Emperor. Darth Vader, Grand Admiral Thrawn, etc). Granted there was the exception to the "rule" when Iceheart lead the Empire but for the most part its seperated the leadership by genders its rather interesting.

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RE: Science Fiction/Fantasy/Horror Books that Click wit... - 1/15/2008 1:27:55 PM

MWulffe

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I may have missed it before and I think I saw Anne Rice mentiond above, but she wrote a series under an ghost writer, the sleeping beauty trilogy. Very hot and complete BDSM world. Was at a local clothing optional beach this summer and noticed one of the lasses there reading the book, she and the friends I was with started talking about the book and found out she was only on page 1, we all smirked and giggled amongst ourselves and told her good luck on getting past the first dozen or so pages. Five minutes laster she joined us in the water looking very flushed and breathing heavily and told us she hadn't made more than a couple of pages further before she decided this was an"in my bed with toys" kind of book.

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