RE: .limits.

RE: .limits. (Full Version)

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velvetears -> RE: .limits. (6/29/2007 6:59:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cjenny So even if a hard limit is brought up to you, do you discuss it or is it a blunt no-how-no-way? I ended up learning that with him I haven't any limits & that is a really cool feeling [:)] . Of course there are things I won't do, but I don't need to state them as limits. They are things that would harm me, so it isn't even a part of our dynamic. People get a bit outraged at someone stating they've no limits but IMO it is silly to announce that chopping off a leg is a limit. It is not realistic within our relationship to worry about something like that so I can drop all thought of having limits. I hope that makes sense. *edited because I wasn't done. The only time a hard limit is brought up is in the very beginning, then hopefully it is respected and never brought up again. Like i said i don't have a real long list of them, but the ones i do have i don't want to ever negotiate or discuss for they will NEVER change. i would see any attempt for them to be brought up with the intent to change my mind as disrespecting my needs and there would be serious trust issues thereafter. If there are things you won't do than you have limits, you just don't feel the need to state them as such probably because you trust him not to do them. i don't know your experience level or what you have involved yourself in or not but there may come a time when you go to try something and find you have come up against a limit. The activity you try to engage in might bring about feelings or sensations that are intolerable to you. Whether spoken or unspoken, his limits or your own limits - everyone has them, if they say otherwise they just haven't experienced them yet. i don't go by trust, i would rather state upfront my limits so there is no miscommuniation as to what my limits are - saves myself a lot of grief down the line.

Rover -> RE: .limits. (6/29/2007 7:23:31 PM)
Fergitaboutit

DarkDreams123 -> RE: .limits. (6/29/2007 9:14:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jauntyone Greetings LuckyAlbatross General life limitations? The concept looks good on paper or in type, but, let us be honest; people are so different that their moral and ethical ‘life limitations’ will vary a great deal. I am a trained killer. I am ordered to kill; I kill. That is my job; my profession. What’s more, I feel no remorse when the body hit’s the ground. For many; I am the kind of person who most would warn away from. The ‘General life Limitations’ that most live by, I do not have the luxury of subscribing to. I have my own morals and my own ethics that I do live by; without reservation; and without regret. The rules that I have placed on myself are my own; and I adhere to them strongly. Yet, when it comes to experiencing ALL that life has to offer; I do not, and will not limit myself. I refuse to box myself in and say ‘I will not do that because it’s dangerous, or because I might hurt another by my actions’. Now, If you choose to believe that I would physically harm another just for the fun of it; then by all means, I will not try to dissuade you of such thoughts. Either way, I stand by my words. I have no limits because I refuse to limit myself in what I may experience in life. Greetings Darcyandthedark Yes, Master does have some limits to what he will and will not do with me. However, his limits are not my own. Limits are personal boundaries; there is no magic potion that is given that will suddenly say ‘ my limits are your limits”. Master may decide what I can and can not do; but that does not mean that he has the ability ‘change’ those things that I want from life. As for the non consent of another or others. I will be honest. If you are referring only to my slavery, then no, I would never impose my own boundaries on another. If you are referring to life in itself; then this is something that I have no control over. I wish you both well melissa Greetings jauntyone, I'm trying to understand what is being said here. You state that because people are so different, that their "life limitations" will very greatly. I can accept that. But what has that to do with having or not having limits. It seems to me that you are just saying that limits will vary from person to person. You state that you are a trained killer and that you are willing to kill without remorse. However, later I think I understand you to say that you would not hurt someone just for the fun of it. (I think this is what you are saying: I think your statement about this was sarcastic, so I was meant to conclude the opposite of what you actually said). Isn't this contradictory? If you are willing to kill without feeling any remorse, then why would it bother you to harm someone for the fun of it? Next you say that you do indeed have your own ethics and morals that you adhere to strongly. Aren't these limits? Is this just an issue of semantics? In your words to the dark you state that you would not impose your "boundaries" on another person. How are boundaries different than limits? -DarkDreams

charismagirrl -> RE: .limits. (6/29/2007 9:15:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears The only time a hard limit is brought up is in the very beginning, then hopefully it is respected and never brought up again. Like i said i don't have a real long list of them, but the ones i do have i don't want to ever negotiate or discuss for they will NEVER change. i would see any attempt for them to be brought up with the intent to change my mind as disrespecting my needs and there would be serious trust issues thereafter. i thought that this would be the case when i met my Master/Daddy...i thought that i would put them out there once and that would be it. No challenges, simple.(This doesn't include the unmovable limits of scat/necro/etc (you know the main 4 taboo things)... i was wrong....things that i listed as my hard limits were removed, on his timing, when he thought it would be appropriate for me and when he had tired of them. Initially i was thinking of simply the limits that one might find on a BDSM checklist, i wasn't taking into consideration other things such as jumping out of a plane for example. i think alot of people think of those lists when saying that they are NO LIMITS. i was fortunate enough to fall in love with a Master that has alot of the same interests and limits that one would find on one of those lists...the things that i had said were HARD and thought that i'd take to my grave were not as hard when it cameto my Master. So as far as sex and BDSM activities and in the majority of our life together i AM LIMITLESS TO HIM...meaning simply that i impose NO LIMITS on HIM. In the rest of our life in general, there are MANY MANY things that scare the hell out of me, things that i say i am unable (not unwilling) to do, he pushes these things and teaches me...If it weren't for him pushing me, pushing things that are limiting to me i would never ever be able to grow. Of course life imposes it's own limitations on us, physics does and all of that, but really that has no bearing on whether i put a limit on my Master... If he were dumb enough to think he could tell me to fly and then punish me for not doing so then i would find cause for concern. If i were dumb enough to align myself with a Master/Daddy that would tell me to rob a bank or who would decide to dismember me and I ACTUALLY DID it...well....that's just ridiculous and i'd need serious serious help from professionals. So i consider myself a no limits slave, as i impose no limits on my Master/Daddy and when it comes to things i think i can't do, then i am a pushed limit slave, pushing past limitations that fear has imposed on me....but decidedly OBEYING my Master/Daddy. Edited to say: I wasn't yelling at all, just trying to stress certain spots so that they might show up better. :)

velvetears -> RE: .limits. (6/29/2007 9:47:29 PM)
To me what you call "unmoveable limits are what i call hard limits. Everyone has limits - it's just semantics if you say my masters limits are my limits. It's a romantic notion that allows one to feel or present their slavery as some all sacraficing deep committment, imo.

angelic -> RE: .limits. (6/29/2007 10:00:26 PM)
i do not have limits... there are absolute certain things that i will not do, will not consider, will not contemplate... for me certain things are even beyond a limit. It simply will not happen... the word 'limit', for me, is just not a strong enough word. Not sure that makes sense to anyone but me, but it is late and i am tired. [&:]

Celeste43 -> RE: .limits. (6/29/2007 10:17:29 PM)
I have a limit of inverted suspension. Between a tendency to vertigo and hypertension this is an absolute hard limit. It is not ever going to be acceptable to push it, not ever. Making me dizzy and nauseous knowing that I won't recover for days is not something I am ever going to change my mind about. Other things that scare me may become acceptable but not when he decides I should be over them, but when I become willing to talk about it. Because the only thing that will happen if he forces something I am not capable now of doing is that I will hard limit that item. I am the only one who can know when I'm afraid of something and when I am flat out terrified, and will lose trust in him for doing something to me that he promised he wouldn't. Thankfully he's smart enough to know that I do know myself better.

charismagirrl -> RE: .limits. (6/29/2007 10:57:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears Everyone has limits - it's just semantics if you say my masters limits are my limits. It's a romantic notion that allows one to feel or present their slavery as some all sacraficing deep committment, imo. Well isn't it supposed to be a deep committment? Isn't it supposed to be sacrificing? As far as romantic notion, i don't look at it as romantic so much as it is what i have chosen to do, to be my Daddy's slave, to not impose limits, to allow my fears to be pushed past. All for the greater good of Us,him and me. If i were to impose the limits and not sacrifice i would not be my Daddy's slave, i may be able to be someone else's slave but not his and he is who i have chosen to surrender to. Also, without some of the sacrifices i might never grow or become more than what i was when i met my Daddy, and i'm much happier with the person he has helped me become. Also, without someone sacrificing then it would be constent strife. And though i do present my slavery as a deep commitment and as mostly all sacrificing, i DO NOT for a second stand on any soap box stating that my slavery is any more or less slavey than anyone elses. It is simply mine and that is it. (btw, my entire last post was not directed at you, just the initital thing that came to mind in the first paragraph or so)

RCdc -> RE: .limits. (6/30/2007 4:29:16 AM)
Hello melissa Thank you for responding on the question about your Master. On the other question - by your response I could say that I am exactly the same as you. I could say I have no limits, simply because I refuse to place restrictions on myself to the same extent as you have suggested. Now you have elabourated on the concept, I do understand it but I believe it is just slightly misleading because ones own morals and ethics and boundries are ones limits. Yes they change and alter according to the situation and the moment, but they are still there. And maybe it is just a matter of semantics (As DarkDreams suggested). I am really grateful that you stopped to respond, melissa, because I now understand (even if I don't 'get') your no limits stance. Peace the.dark.

RCdc -> RE: .limits. (6/30/2007 4:32:54 AM)
Hello LadyHeart Thank you for responding as obviously, it was your statement that provoked the thread. Now I have read through your post, I see your position. I am really gratelful I did see your original statement, as without it, this difference in the thoughts of 'Limits' wouldn't have occured to me and I love that lightbulb going off above my head! Peace the.dark.

kyraofMists -> RE: .limits. (6/30/2007 4:49:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears Everyone has limits - it's just semantics if you say my masters limits are my limits. It's a romantic notion that allows one to feel or present their slavery as some all sacraficing deep committment, imo. No, it is not just semantics. When I first entered my relationship he asked what the things are that I did not want to do and if I considered them to be limits and why. There were some things that I didn't want to do, was terrified of and if I had my choice I would limit them from happening; cutting, knife play, blood play, fire play, needles and watersports are the ones I remember off the top of my head. Within the first week he did fire play on me and then used a knife that left marks that lasted almost two years. Within the first several months he did blood play and a cutting that will last the rest of my life. One day he will use needles on me and we will engage in watersports. It isn't just semantics when I say that I do not define the limits within our relationship; he does. Do I think it makes me have some "all sacrificing deep commitment"? No, I don't sacrifice much at all and it just makes me a slave to him. However, I do not say that I am a "no limits slave". Of course I have limits, but he defines where that line will be. Knight's Kyra

LadyHeart -> RE: .limits. (6/30/2007 5:28:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark Hello LadyHeart Thank you for responding as obviously, it was your statement that provoked the thread. Now I have read through your post, I see your position. I am really gratelful I did see your original statement, as without it, this difference in the thoughts of 'Limits' wouldn't have occured to me and I love that lightbulb going off above my head! Peace the.dark. Thank you too! I also had a lightbulb go off, and it explains a lot of the statements I see from subs. I'm happy to stick to my way of doing things, but I now realize that I will have to make it even clearer in future. :)) LH

KnightofMists -> RE: .limits. (6/30/2007 8:24:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark A Soft or undefined limit is one I may be open to being 'pushed' to achieve or perform. Hypnosis is an example for me. What are your definitions? Peace the.dark. This is a repost of my opinion given awhile back... I believe it answers your questions. quote: Within the BDSM subculture, understanding limits is an important foundation of being able to participate in a healthy and pleasurable way. We often hear people that express a long list of limits, to an incredible short list and down to none. In building a relationship it is not only understanding another’s wants and desires as well as our own, but also understanding our limits that may preclude us from being able to fulfill another’s wants and desires. I consider the whole aspect of limits from this view point: 1. The Boundary. These are limits that are imposed upon us by the reality of maintaining our own healthy well-being and not limits that are self-imposed or imposed by another (i.e. Master/Dominant). For example, the diabetic is not going to have that cup of sugar due to the obvious physical consequence it will have to their Healthy Well-being, or the girl that was violently raped might stay away from rape plays because of the intense emotional trauma and anxiety it causes that threatens their mental Well-being. It could also be that a person just can’t do certain types of suspension because physical permanent injuries or just because of the aging process itself. We all have these types of limits – no one is immune to this. However, the boundaries to our Well-being will be different from person to person. These boundaries will evolve but seldom will we ever over come there existence. Sometimes the damage physical/mental and even spiritual can be so extensive that it will preclude us from engaging in many activities. To engage in them can only mean to harm ourselves. But because we have these boundaries, doesn’t necessarily stop us from engaging in activities that violate our Boundaries to our Well-being….. Self-abuse is a problem I am sure we all see from time to time. 2. Limits. We do indeed impose limits upon ourselves and by others … the things we will not do because they are perceived to have no direct or indirect personal pleasure or gratification in doing them for us and/or our partner. We often hear individuals state they have no limits. There are lots of reasons that they state such a thing… sometimes it is just out of ignorance, sometimes it is because they have yet to try and discovery activities that provide no pleasure and gratification for them and/or their partner. Often thou they are individuals that do indeed have limits but their limits are in-line with that of their Master/Dominant and thus it is an illusion to think they have no limits. Many consider a slave to lack power to impose limits upon themselves. That only the Master imposes such limits. However, the Boundaries must always be watched for… they are not static… they will evolve. The slave does have limits… but they are boundaries to their well-being. The difference between the Moral Master/Dominant and the Immoral One is the adherence to these inherent boundaries of the slave/sub. In my Opinion, A person should not ever relieve themselves of the responsibility of protecting their personal well-being! 3. Challenges. Many use the term “soft limits”. I personally detest the term. I am a strong advocate – a limit is a limit is a limit! However, there are often times that we see activities that we have yet to try. Our opinion is uncertain, but yet we seek to try them. We can not consider them as either limits or boundaries, nor can we consider them as a pleasure or gratification to be enjoyed for our self and/or our partner. These unknowns, I consider as “challenges”. In fact, most of us when we come into the lifestyle can fill an entire list of challenges. Like any challenge, some we are ready to try immediately, some we must build upon before we make the attempt. In my opinion, it would be wiser for the person to approach the lifestyle with as good as possible understanding of the boundaries to their Well-Being as they can. They should acknowledge that they have discovered and imposed certain specific limits to their activities. But they do see many challenges that both excite them and scare them. As well as express the pleasures and gratifications they have experienced and enjoyed. It is this manner that I expect a person to approach me.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: .limits. (6/30/2007 10:04:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: charismagirrl Isn't it supposed to be sacrificing? Ahhh good question and one I asked recently. The answer I have come to is no, it is not SUPPOSED to be, nor does it necessarily need to sacrificing at all.

michaelOfGeorgia -> RE: .limits. (6/30/2007 10:08:39 AM)
not having any offline experience, some of the limits i placed in my profile have yet to be tested. the ultimate hard limits i shall forever maintain are: no men no scat no blood or knife play no fireplay no animals no (unmentionables) no breath play i'll leave it at that...for now

BBBTBW -> RE: .limits. (6/30/2007 10:45:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia My limits are to the bone, and involve my personal morals and values. I also respect submissives that tell me UP front what their hard limits are, and I admire them for having the moral turpitude to actually HAVE limits. I know I am in the minority on this, but some of us have hard limits and seek someone that has the same hard limits as we do. A submissive that has no or very limited limits is not the submissive for me. Again, I know this might sound strange, but the submissives that I give a second glance to are ONLY the ones that have the same hard limits as I do. Also, I never disclose what my hard limits are prior to hearing their's first, that way they can't lie to agree with me. [;)] I love this because it damn near clears the playing field for me, but the few that are left--> are the ones I consider. I mirror this. Although I have an overview of my limits on my profile, there is much room for discussion and negotiation. Recently I approached a male that had been on a contact list for a while but we hadn't spoken. We hit dead on on so many things. However, there was one limit that he had that I couldn't agree with. To me it was a minor thing to do, for him it was major for some reason that he could not/would not explain. Unfortunately it turned out to be a deal breaker. I am generally pretty understanding but if something doesn't make sense to me, I cannot go with it.

charismagirrl -> RE: .limits. (6/30/2007 11:35:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: charismagirrl Isn't it supposed to be sacrificing? Ahhh good question and one I asked recently. The answer I have come to is no, it is not SUPPOSED to be, nor does it necessarily need to sacrificing at all. But what about when you defer to your M and sacrifice what you might want to do for what he/she wants to do? That is sacrifice....albeit not all sacrifice is a big thing. Unless you and your M are exactly alike and want to do, eat and have the same things at all the same times then someone will sacrifice something for the other's haappiness.(maybe it is somethng as simple as where you will eat or what movie you will watch etc) Granted there are times when my Master will sacrifice something so that i might have something that i would like, but it still sacrifice because he and i aren't identical. Relationships no matter what they are, vanilla, friendships, and M/s or D/s require some sacrifice at some points. Don't they? ~cherry

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: .limits. (6/30/2007 11:40:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: charismagirrl Relationships no matter what they are, vanilla, friendships, and M/s or D/s require some sacrifice at some points. Don't they? ~cherry I think almost all relationships do involve some sort of postponement in them- you can't do it all all the time. We even make ourselves sacrifice when we want to do two things at once and must choose. Whether you want to go so far as to call that a sacrifice is up to you- there's the longer term gain that you would not be able to get without the short term postponement/sacrifice, so is it really sacrifice at all? But your question was "isn't is SUPPOSED to be sacrificing?" And to that I say- not at all.

KnightofMists -> RE: .limits. (6/30/2007 11:44:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: charismagirrl Relationships no matter what they are, vanilla, friendships, and M/s or D/s require some sacrifice at some points. Don't they? ~cherry Not to speak for LA... since she indeed does very well in speaking for herself. But.. it was my impression from her comments.. that a M/s relationship is not about the Slave constantly Scarificing. That it is not Suppose to be the slave Scarificing in all things!! I would think that sometimes.. the slave actually gets some pleasure on what they are doing and don't feel like they are giving up anything to do it. In other cases, I am sure they feel like they are scarificing something to do what they do... but interesting sometimes they might even enjoy that and others times maybe not so much.

velvetears -> RE: .limits. (6/30/2007 3:32:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyraofMists quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears Everyone has limits - it's just semantics if you say my masters limits are my limits. It's a romantic notion that allows one to feel or present their slavery as some all sacraficing deep committment, imo. No, it is not just semantics. When I first entered my relationship he asked what the things are that I did not want to do and if I considered them to be limits and why. There were some things that I didn't want to do, was terrified of and if I had my choice I would limit them from happening; cutting, knife play, blood play, fire play, needles and watersports are the ones I remember off the top of my head. Within the first week he did fire play on me and then used a knife that left marks that lasted almost two years. Within the first several months he did blood play and a cutting that will last the rest of my life. One day he will use needles on me and we will engage in watersports. It isn't just semantics when I say that I do not define the limits within our relationship; he does. Do I think it makes me have some "all sacrificing deep commitment"? No, I don't sacrifice much at all and it just makes me a slave to him. However, I do not say that I am a "no limits slave". Of course I have limits, but he defines where that line will be. Knight's Kyra He defines the limits but i am sure when you first met and got to know each other you knew what he was into and what his preferences were. If at that time you learned of something he would be doing to you that you realized you could not tolerate, you would have more then likely not agreed to be a slave to him. When two people align their limits so they both mesh with each other it becomes, in my opinion, a game of semantics - "his limits", "my limits", it's all the same limits at that point. Limits aren't things you just don't like - in my opinion anyway, they are things you are not capable of doing, every human being has limits of some sort. The M/s continues on it's "limitless" path because the master is smart enough to understand not to engage in activities that the slave will react strongly to or that he feels will harm her in some way psychologically and or physically. They don't have to be spoken to be there.

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