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RE: what can we do to promote the healing? - 7/1/2007 7:32:30 AM   
SeeksOnlyOne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

something i hope to see discussed.......ill leave my thoughts out of it for now....

how can the govt agree to pay for medicaid care for a child for 18 years, yet refuse to pay for an abortion for someone who just keeps having babies.........


Because a very large number of people (myself included) blood begins to boil at the thought of our tax dollars going to pay for an abortion.


exactly.....and thats the way it will be forever i suspect........so this decision is based on morality and extreme feelings that it brings up in folks.  not what would be the most fiscally responsible as related to the bottom line of running the program.(in the views of some)

so who decides when it is morality vs dollars that determines policy........the elected officials as representatives of the people who elected them?  our forefathers?  ive often wondered if they would have written the gun laws as they did, if they would have been able to see into the future to todays world.........and i own guns and absolutely dont want anyone telling me i cant own them and have them loaded in my home or car when i choose to.

i hope im not rambling too much.....i look forward to other perspectives on these things....




_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: what can we do to promote the healing? - 7/1/2007 7:37:11 AM   
uwinceismile


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seeks,
i see it as a personal responsibility issue. assuming the abortion is not needed due to a rape or other scenario that the woman had no control over.
i hope that makes sense. which is why i,and im guessing a few others here would rather not have our tax dollars used for that :(

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: what can we do to promote the healing? - 7/1/2007 7:40:53 AM   
cjenny


Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: uwinceismile

my quest was to find common ground, and work forward from there. many threads left on this site where we can all scream our positions if thats what ya need :)



The implication being that people can't find common ground without your assistance?

I'm sure if you look you'll see people finding common ground.

I couldn't be further at the other end of the political spectrum to Real0ne, yet we've found common ground on a few issues. I'm sure it goes for others, too. It depends what you want to see, I suppose.

This seems to me to be another one of those "I can bring something to the table that no one else can" threads.


I see it more as a starting point. Setting the table so that we can sit around and discuss it.

_____________________________

*Unless I cite a source it is MO.


~ ssssh. i think i've just found freedom. ~

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: what can we do to promote the healing? - 7/1/2007 7:41:44 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: uwinceismile

i see it as a personal responsibility issue.



Fancy doing a spot of compromising on my point of view that humans aren't 100% efficient and sometimes make mistakes, and these mistakes should not be held 'round people's necks like a millstone for the rest of their lives?

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: what can we do to promote the healing? - 7/1/2007 7:41:49 AM   
uwinceismile


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Joined: 5/29/2007
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NG,
im sure comon ground can be found with out my assistance. i dont think im as powerful as u think, i think i am   lol
nice to see ur take on all of this tho

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: what can we do to promote the healing? - 7/1/2007 7:44:27 AM   
uwinceismile


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hmmmm,
children as millstones around the neck.....never saw it like that before??

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: what can we do to promote the healing? - 7/1/2007 7:45:40 AM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

Thankyou Level.
It has been hard.. embarrassing and humiliating. Being treated as if I am some kind of lower human hurts but I have to keep going. Some of the questions on the forms offend me, they really do. Things like.. have I had an IQ test. Or, am I capable of writing my name. Or, what special ed classes have I taken. Sigh. It really dehumanizes me.
(I don't want to be one of 'those' people  but I guess I am anyway?)
I'm putting off trying to sell my house, this mess is taking all of my time and energy right now.

Yeah, revamping our health care system would be a good thing.


*hugs*
 
I know it's tough. You have to be a little bit tougher, and I know you can.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to cjenny)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: what can we do to promote the healing? - 7/1/2007 7:50:10 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: uwinceismile

hmmmm,
children as millstones around the neck.....never saw it like that before??



In that case, maybe we can do a spot of compromising, here.

A young girl gets pregnant at 16. She has her whole life ahead of her. She's made a mistake. One which will hold her back by stunting her education, her enjoyment (doing normal young lasses' stuff) and her employment opportunities in later years.

Are you going to hold her to account for that one mistake?

Have you ever made a mistake? Do you know of a 100% efficient human being?

What constitutes an acceptable mistake? and who decides?

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to uwinceismile)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: what can we do to promote the healing? - 7/1/2007 7:51:55 AM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: uwinceismile

seeks,
i see it as a personal responsibility issue. assuming the abortion is not needed due to a rape or other scenario that the woman had no control over.
i hope that makes sense. which is why i,and im guessing a few others here would rather not have our tax dollars used for that :(


Yes, let me revise my response to SeeksOnlyOne -  I don't want to pay for an abortion of convinience (sp?); which makes up almost all abortions.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to uwinceismile)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: what can we do to promote the healing? - 7/1/2007 8:00:59 AM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: uwinceismile

seeks,
i see it as a personal responsibility issue. assuming the abortion is not needed due to a rape or other scenario that the woman had no control over.
i hope that makes sense. which is why i,and im guessing a few others here would rather not have our tax dollars used for that :(


Yes, let me revise my response to SeeksOnlyOne -  I don't want to pay for an abortion of convinience (sp?); which makes up almost all abortions.


i agree with you there......i personally wish there was a way to force a woman who keeps having children, while on welfare, to stop having children or lose benefits.......if youre unable or unwilling to support the ones you have, do not have more.  period......

and i would be absolutely open to having my tax dollars to pay for tying her tubes.....that may already be allowed, if they choose to do it, but somehow i think the ones im referring to wouldnt make that choice.

and i was on food stamps and afdc for about a year once......i see it as a stepping stone to assist you get on your feet, not a lifestyle.

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: what can we do to promote the healing? - 7/1/2007 8:25:42 AM   
maybemaybenot


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Okay, health insurance.
 
I'm intrigued by what they're doing in Massachusetts. It has as its aim total coverage, but it still looks to be flexible.

quote:

The law divides the population into three segments:

_The poorest, making less than the federal poverty level, are eligible for free care.

_People making slightly more, up to three times the federal poverty level, can enroll in state subsidized plans.

_Those making more than three times the federal poverty level — at least $30,630 for an individual and $61,950 for a family of four — can choose their own coverage from new, lower-cost private plans, if they aren't already insured through work.


Is this a reasonable starting point? Should it be a template for the rest of the country, or should each state be allowed to seek it's own unique plan?
 
Here's a link to a story on the Massachusetts plan:
 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070630/ap_on_he_me/massachusetts_health_care
 


I know very little about this 'stuff'. Is this sort of program put to a public vote? Or is it simply just implemented by those in charge?
And yup I think that if it works then other states ought to follow it. But that brings me back to the voting for it issue, there 'may' be better solutions. Some states have more under the poverty line than others which could effect that program.
I agree to with whomever said that at least one dollar should be the price even for those below the poverty line.
Right now I do not qualify for help. I cannot work but I have outside income of a whopping $16K a year, with that amount of income buying medication is a severe hardship for me. I pay over $1K a month in meds alone.

It feels that most people see those living on a small income are seen as lazy/uneducated. That makes it hard emotionally to ask for help. There IS a stigma attached to receiving state or government aid.

I am currently in the process of trying to receive state aid, it has taken 2 years to reach my first hearing. Sometimes I wonder if they keep that timeline hoping that the applicant will give up. It is tempting to, but I can't.
Next up? The tangle known as SSI.
Hmmm I ought to keep a journal on this journey of mine.

Thankies Level for the thought provoking post.


No, cjenny, we residents of the Commonwealth had zero say in this. All created and implemented by the legislature. Here is a decent link that outlines the program fairly well.

http://www.telegram.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070610/NEWS/706100493/1116

And don't think thsi new law treats everyone the same in regards to access and availablity of this Healthcare reform attempt:

"While younger people will have lower rates, the monthly premiums will not cover many medical costs if they become sick."

" Not all of the uninsured will be treated the same, with some paying nothing and others getting subsidized rates for the same insurance plans based on income. Age is a major factor in monthly premium rates, with older residents facing higher monthly insurance bills. "

"Meanwhile another estimated 65,000 uninsured will be exempt from penalties if they do not buy insurance, based on their incomes and an “affordability” scale included in the Connector’s new regulations. About 35,000 of those are individuals just below income guidelines for subsidized insurance who are offered coverage through their employers, according to state estimates. The remainder are people with incomes just above the level to qualify for subsidized monthly premiums, for whom state officials have decided the market-rate premiums are too costly. "

http://www.telegram.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070610/NEWS/706100493/1116

and of course, your location within the state will have a direct coresponence to what healthcare, if any you may get, despite your income being within the parameters:

"In one example used to explain the narrow exemption criteria, the staff of the connector board said a 37-year-old single person in Lexington with an adjusted gross income of $37,500 and no access to employer-sponsored insurance would be subject to the mandate because the affordability chart established by the board sets $200 as the amount that person should be able to afford.

A person with the same income from Great Barrington, however, would not be subject to the mandate because he does not have access to an insurance plan with a monthly premium under $200 in that area. "

"And last but not least this little pearl, AFTER we were sold the bill of goods based on specific numbers:
Currently the state is budgeting $472 million of state and federal subsidies in the next year to cover the cost of the program, including insurance subsidies for lower income individuals and families. Ms. Kirwan indicated it will be months before it is known whether actual costs meet or exceed that budget figure. The budget figure, she said, “was a well-reasoned guess” of expected costs"

http://www.telegram.com/article/20070627/NEWS/706270654/1116

A mandatory law based on a guess . Yup, that's about right for the fine boyz and girlz up there on Beacon Hill.

For those who don't read the links, this law does not provide free healthcare. Many people who are going to be mandated to purchase the government sanctioned health insurance will have 70/30 plans and deductables that are still outside of their ability to pay, based on salary and cost of living.
It's interesting that the older population who generally require more healthcare and have more serious chronic illness will actually pay more for their plan, more for their co pays, more for any hospitalizations and have lesser incomes than many getting the better state mandated plans.

Call me a pessimist, but this stinks of the Mass. Legislatures continued pillow talk with the insurance companies. They did it with auto insurance, and they are doing it again. We are the only state in the union that can not have competitive auto insurance prices. They car insurance rates have been set by the legislature.

                           mbmbn



_____________________________

Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

(in reply to cjenny)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: what can we do to promote the healing? - 7/1/2007 8:30:27 AM   
uwinceismile


Posts: 365
Joined: 5/29/2007
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hmmm,
apparently i made a mistake by starting this thread .
and im not sure why my thoughts on personal responsibility  would be so offensive?
would i hold a 16 yr old girls feet to the grindstone forever?
silly question . i am all for compromise here. in real time, frankly, i thrive on confrontation. here, i was simply trying to find a way to effectively communiacte without folks getting nasty.
i dont think ive said anything here , that would warrant the question u have asked about a 16 yr old getting pregnant. i do not oppose abortion. i do oppose my tax money being spent to pay for others abortions tho. unless as stated earlier, it was due to an act out of the control of the woman.(rape , etc)...
so please,, dont cherry pick 5 words out of a statement i have made, and try to make it mean something other then what i stated...
its called...context 

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: what can we do to promote the healing? - 7/1/2007 8:36:27 AM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
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Good morning, mb
 
All reasonable objections. Any ideas on what would work?

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to maybemaybenot)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: what can we do to promote the healing? - 7/1/2007 8:49:15 AM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
geez that sucks for you.....hang in there

quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

Thankyou Level.
It has been hard.. embarrassing and humiliating. Being treated as if I am some kind of lower human hurts but I have to keep going. Some of the questions on the forms offend me, they really do. Things like.. have I had an IQ test. Or, am I capable of writing my name. Or, what special ed classes have I taken. Sigh. It really dehumanizes me.
(I don't want to be one of 'those' people  but I guess I am anyway?)
I'm putting off trying to sell my house, this mess is taking all of my time and energy right now.

Yeah, revamping our health care system would be a good thing.


_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to cjenny)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: what can we do to promote the healing? - 7/1/2007 8:52:20 AM   
maybemaybenot


Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
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GM, Level :

No, I don't have any ideas, the entire system needs an overhaul. I will be watching this new law, I am not completely unsold on it, it just bears all the earmarks of a major clusterfuck.

As a state we are losing people at a much faster rate than other states. High property taxes, housing costs, the decay of the textile industry that we were once at the top of the pile in, and so much more.

The rate of people leaving the state is so high that a few months ago our fine state legislature came up with yet another one of their brainstorms on how to spend my tax money. They want to give a " gift" to people who graduate from a Mass. College/University < public or private> a lump some of cash towards purchasing a home if they agree to live and work in the state for a set amout of time. I believe it was two years, but can't recall the exact number. I only wish I was 22 or 23 and graduating, I would take the state down payemnt, stay for two years and make a bundle on the re sale. They are not even in tune enough with what is happening to realize how utterly insane that would be. The  bill is not dead that I know of, it still may happen.


                                                    mbmbn

_____________________________

Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: what can we do to promote the healing? - 7/1/2007 8:53:26 AM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: uwinceismile

hmmmm,
children as millstones around the neck.....never saw it like that before??



In that case, maybe we can do a spot of compromising, here.

A young girl gets pregnant at 16. She has her whole life ahead of her. She's made a mistake. One which will hold her back by stunting her education, her enjoyment (doing normal young lasses' stuff) and her employment opportunities in later years.

Are you going to hold her to account for that one mistake?

Have you ever made a mistake? Do you know of a 100% efficient human being?

What constitutes an acceptable mistake? and who decides?


you can be pro-choice and pro-life at the same time........but i have never seen anyone change their views on abortion.....it is one of the things i see no reason to debate....state your beliefs and be done.......

this is something held so closely to ones personal beliefs, there is no compromising on it, and to attempt to ask someone to do just that is just .......if you continue to do it, you must enjoy it

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: what can we do to promote the healing? - 7/1/2007 8:56:48 AM   
uwinceismile


Posts: 365
Joined: 5/29/2007
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mbmbn,
wow,, sounds like they suffer from a case of static analysis :(
but when u consider that most politicians will only look as far as the next election cycle...its not that hard to see why they consider such rubbish:(

(in reply to maybemaybenot)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: what can we do to promote the healing? - 7/1/2007 9:03:12 AM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
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But, what about those people that think ya'll are mean for not wanting to give the graduates the tax money? Isn't more money the answer?

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to maybemaybenot)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: what can we do to promote the healing? - 7/1/2007 9:08:12 AM   
uwinceismile


Posts: 365
Joined: 5/29/2007
Status: offline
rofl....
i wish money were the answer, if it were, we would have no problems in america ;)
dc spends more money then any other state per pupil to educate.....do i need to finish this thought?

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: what can we do to promote the healing? - 7/1/2007 9:10:37 AM   
uwinceismile


Posts: 365
Joined: 5/29/2007
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and before the screaming starts,,,,yes, i know dc is not a state,,,i worded  that last post badley :(  lol

(in reply to uwinceismile)
Profile   Post #: 60
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