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RE: When Compatibility Changes - 7/1/2007 8:34:22 PM   
Noah


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
What happens when your partner’s desires change over time?  What happens when they expand so much that they are now interested in things that you didn’t want to do or participate in?  Is there a difference if the person changing is the dominant or the submissive in the relationship?

Knight's Kyra


If a person is willing to submit only to things she might just as well have chosen to do herrself, but finds herself doing them at someone eles's behest, that's fine.

I'll admit that it reminds me of someone standing on a street corner and "ordering" passersby to do just as they please. This kind of "ordering" seems to hollow-out the notion of giving orders, for me.

Of course there is another notion of "submission" which extends beyond doing what she would prefer or choose for herself. It enters into the territory of doing something primarily or solely because it is another person's will. This is a notion of submission which I find richer, with room in it for a great deal of poignancy and beauty that--to my mind--just doesn't fit in the notion of submitting if-and-only-if the behavior suits one's preferences, moods, goals, etc.

Whichever notion resonates for any given person is fine with me. I do see a difference in kind existing between them. I'm sure other paradigms exists as well, and all sorts of in between cases, too. I'm not here to call any one true or false, just to offer some description from my point of view.


All that said, I believe in healthy boundaries for every person, inside and outside of relationships, inside and outside of kink.

It sounds as though you are exploring some of yours boundaries. I wish you the very best of luck, for your sake and for that of the other members of your lovely triad.





(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: When Compatibility Changes - 7/1/2007 8:40:16 PM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

What happens when your partner’s desires change over time?  What happens when they expand so much that they are now interested in things that you didn’t want to do or participate in?  Is there a difference if the person changing is the dominant or the submissive in the relationship?

Knight's Kyra


For us, it means that I accept and adjust.  That takes time and such, but for me its worth it to do so, and some things, while in my perfect world we wouldn't do I know that he enjoys them so that makes it all the more worthwhile and I'm usually able to find some sort of cookie or way to enjoy it also.

I do think its different for a dominant and submissive, I think for the submissive its more incumbent on them to adjust and change.  There are things that I'm interested in that I'm pretty positive we'll never do, but I would not say the same holds true for things my owner is interested in.

C~


_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: When Compatibility Changes - 7/1/2007 8:56:30 PM   
BlindDescent


Posts: 113
Joined: 9/26/2006
Status: offline 		There is no behavior/action without consequence. Positive or negative, there is still effect. A slightly different view of this topic might be: does one commit to the person or their actions? If one commits to the person, then there would most likely be a stronger impetus to find resolution. If the relationship was based on actions( the BDSM menu of physical and emotional torments and delights); then there might not be quite the same level of personal committment to one's partner. Kind of like going to one's favorite restaurant and finding your favorite dish is no longer served...unilateral change is quite disappointing. And despite the best embrace of tao and zen...it still sucks to be set aside/left behind/deemed irrelevant/not on the same page... regardless of circumstance. Action-consequence-response-karma. 

Slavish; well spoken~*


< Message edited by BlindDescent -- 7/1/2007 9:00:20 PM >

_____________________________

Reality is what you create; not what others leave behind.

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: When Compatibility Changes - 7/1/2007 8:56:38 PM   
becca333


Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline 		Each of us suggests new things now and then, so we try them, and see if they'll work for us.  It's natural to grow and change, hopefully together.  If interests diverge, then it'd be a fond farewell. 

(in reply to Wildfleurs)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: When Compatibility Changes - 7/1/2007 9:47:49 PM   
CitizenCane


Posts: 349
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveish

quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenCane

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveish

quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenCane

An admirable outlook. Are you sure you aren't a Taoist?



Thanks.

I am a Taoist every now and Zen.


That was painful.




Learn to accept and embrace your pain, allow it to open new vistas, to broaden your life skills. In this pain you will find pleasure. In pleasure you find enlightenment; thus, the amount and duration of your pain is directly proportional to the amount of enlightenment you find.

~little cough~


I thought we had already agreed that enlightenment isn't all it's cracked up to be.



(in reply to slaveish)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: When Compatibility Changes - 7/1/2007 11:27:51 PM   
ErusUxor


Posts: 44
Joined: 4/22/2007
Status: offline 		LA...very well said....I can't add anything to expand that....

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When they said "penny for your thoughts" ...I had to try and figure out how to make change.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: When Compatibility Changes - 7/2/2007 7:13:03 AM   
slaveish


Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenCane

I thought we had already agreed that enlightenment isn't all it's cracked up to be.



Indeed we did. So let's try out greed. You start throwing money at me and I will safeword when it becomes too painful to bear.

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to CitizenCane)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: When Compatibility Changes - 7/2/2007 7:15:34 AM   
CitizenCane


Posts: 349
Joined: 3/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveish

quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenCane

I thought we had already agreed that enlightenment isn't all it's cracked up to be.



Indeed we did. So let's try out greed. You start throwing money at me and I will safeword when it becomes too painful to bear.


It's an idea.  Let's start with pennies and a wrist-rocket, shall we?

(in reply to slaveish)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: When Compatibility Changes - 7/2/2007 10:08:20 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

What happens when your partner’s desires change over time?  What happens when they expand so much that they are now interested in things that you didn’t want to do or participate in?  Is there a difference if the person changing is the dominant or the submissive in the relationship?

Knight's Kyra


Activities come and go. The flavor of the week is ever changing and/or evolving so as long as the philosophies and character which brought us together remains, what we may 'do' is of little consequence to me. If I enjoy some 'thing', that's great. Hurray! But, in my heart, I know that even if it may be something 'he' wants as well, I'd be doing it anyway. When I'm doing something that I don't enjoy, don't find pleasant or have to struggle to fulfill, that feeds me so much more because I 'am' doing it all for him and my own ego is left out of the equation. The lowest, hardest, most trying 'things' are when I'm at my best and when I 'feel' most like his slave even if those things are very painful to my heart, my head or my body.

I guess I think of it this way: when I'm at the circus, I'm gonna have a good time no matter what but when I'm mucking out animal dung in the barn just because he wants me to and it makes my heart sing even though my arms wanna fall off to do that service for him, then my mind is where it needs to be for my submission to have meaning and for me to know that I'm still walking the right path for me. That sort of thing gives me internal feedback and if there ever comes a day where I resent my service, it'll be time to re-evalulate where my head is and open a dialogue on what M/s means to both of us.

As usual, I loved your question, Kyra.

Celeste


_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: When Compatibility Changes - 7/2/2007 1:05:02 PM   
greeneyes1962


Posts: 117
Joined: 9/7/2005
Status: offline 		There are plenty of activities i could happily never engage in. However they are not hard
limits, so if he wanted to do them then we would do them. It's that simple for me.

Like we were in a BDSM toy shop in NYC Saturday, he saw a leather straightjacket,
and his eyes lit up, imagining me wearing it. I have never thought about it, but if he wanted
me to do that, then I would. Then again, I can't imagine him spending $980.00 for one.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: When Compatibility Changes - 7/2/2007 1:35:49 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenCane

I thought we had already agreed that enlightenment isn't all it's cracked up to be.



Before enlightenment, beat submissive and enjoy receiving blowjob.
After enlightenment, beat submissive and enjoy receiving blowjob.

Sinergy

_____________________________

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David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to CitizenCane)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: When Compatibility Changes - 7/2/2007 2:21:50 PM   
GeekyGirl


Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
Status: offline 		People change...you have to sit back and assess whether or not that's a change you can make. Sometimes it's in regards to a kink activity, sometimes a vanilla one...but either way, you have a hard choice.

Those who read my last thread about my ex know that we had something similiar to this come up. It wasn't kink related (he decided at age 40 that having UMS was important to him.) This wasn't something we could compromise on.

I do believe in making an attempt at compromise...if my partner wanted a sexual activity I wasn't into, I would try it...and if it was something I simply couldn't tolerate, I'd have to explain this to my partner. Either he'd get over it, or I'd leave. This came up also with my ex in regards to electric play. I JUST can't do it. He accepted that.


_____________________________

"It's nothing that I understand, but when in your arms you have complete power over me. So be gentle if you please, 'cause your hands are in my hair, but my heart is in your teeth and it makes me want to make you near me always."

(in reply to slaveish)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: When Compatibility Changes - 7/2/2007 4:23:36 PM   
MadRabbit


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Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah

Of course there is another notion of "submission" which extends beyond doing what she would prefer or choose for herself. It enters into the territory of doing something primarily or solely because it is another person's will. This is a notion of submission which I find richer, with room in it for a great deal of poignancy and beauty that--to my mind--just doesn't fit in the notion of submitting if-and-only-if the behavior suits one's preferences, moods, goals, etc.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah

All that said, I believe in healthy boundaries for every person, inside and outside of relationships, inside and outside of kink.


These two statements perfectly describe the opposite ends of my own dilemna.

My first relationship came to a screeching halt when I realized my partner fell into this category...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah
If a person is willing to submit only to things she might just as well have chosen to do herrself, but finds herself doing them at someone eles's behest, that's fine.
 

This simply isnt the kind of submission I desire. I didnt find the fullfillment I wanted.

The issue though of future relationships being jeopardized by something I require crossing a boundary is one that I wonder a lot about.

But as I said in the previos thread, there is no magic answer to the question.



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(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: When Compatibility Changes - 7/2/2007 4:52:53 PM   
meticulousgirl


Posts: 969
Joined: 2/20/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

You hope that you change together.  You hope that you get happiness out of things to a significant level so that the actual compatibility is irrelevant.  You try to work things out so that everyone's still getting what works for them by making changes.

But sometimes things change too much.  I think my first relationship ended because *I* changed too much from 18 to 22- where they wanted our lives to go was no longer what worked for me as a person. 

For me, loving someone means allowing them to be who they are- even if that means not being with me.  That is my ultimate priority and nothing is allowed to interfere with that.  So, even if it meant the relationship had to change or end, if they did change to a certain point, I'd want them to do what they needed to do for their own sense of fulfillment.



Agreed Albatross

just not sure if it always has to involve love though.
I think two people can be happy just caring about the other they dont need to be in a relationship to do it so to speak.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: When Compatibility Changes - 7/2/2007 4:57:31 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah


quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
What happens when your partner’s desires change over time?  What happens when they expand so much that they are now interested in things that you didn’t want to do or participate in?  Is there a difference if the person changing is the dominant or the submissive in the relationship?

Knight's Kyra


If a person is willing to submit only to things she might just as well have chosen to do herrself, but finds herself doing them at someone eles's behest, that's fine.

I'll admit that it reminds me of someone standing on a street corner and "ordering" passersby to do just as they please. This kind of "ordering" seems to hollow-out the notion of giving orders, for me.

Of course there is another notion of "submission" which extends beyond doing what she would prefer or choose for herself. It enters into the territory of doing something primarily or solely because it is another person's will. This is a notion of submission which I find richer, with room in it for a great deal of poignancy and beauty that--to my mind--just doesn't fit in the notion of submitting if-and-only-if the behavior suits one's preferences, moods, goals, etc.


I couldn't agree more.  Submission to that which you want to do is easy, submission to someone is harder, and submission to another's will when what he wants you to learn or do when you really don't want to or are fearful of it but submit to him/her and the action because it pleases them and that feeds your submission is hardest yet.  But...as Noah said, richer also.  I realized that one of the many facets that was wrong with my vanilla relationship was that, as long as everything met her need for approval of, and happiness-inducing, then it was O.K..  If what made her happy upset me, well then...I was just being a "inconsiderate man".
Communication throughout these changes is vital but then, you already knew that kyra.

quote:

Whichever notion resonates for any given person is fine with me. I do see a difference in kind existing between them. I'm sure other paradigms exists as well, and all sorts of in between cases, too. I'm not here to call any one true or false, just to offer some description from my point of view.

All that said, I believe in healthy boundaries for every person, inside and outside of relationships, inside and outside of kink.

It sounds as though you are exploring some of yours boundaries. I wish you the very best of luck, for your sake and for that of the other members of your lovely triad.


I too wish you luck.  Given what you folks have shared of your relationship, I have a feeling that it will be worked out somehow in a way that satisfies and enlightens all of you.

(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: When Compatibility Changes - 7/3/2007 1:10:09 PM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear kyraofMists, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
No relationship is fair.  It really is a series of negotiations and accomidating the other.  How much though is the key.  Compromising for the sake of catching the fantasy, rather than limiting compromise for the sake of a long term relationship.
 
People grow in different ways within themselves and or their relationships; even in their interests in BDSM, D/s, M/s and or S&m.  This is why those who base a relationship just on BDSM or Leather, don't last as long.  It has something in common but; people are more than BDSM, or sex and it's fantasies and gratification.  Too few really look beyond the immediate.  If there are other things of common interests besides BDSM; it has a good chance for a relationship to last.
 
It is good to discuss ahead of time on the other's feelings on changes.  Will there be a compromised position and or negotiation way of dealing with a part in interests and or an off-set growth pattern and or --a total loss of interest in BDSM; as well as what if's due to medical and or injury crisis.
 
There are no perfect matches but, as I mention in past posts--I will be grateful for anybody who is 80% of what I seek in another person.
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: When Compatibility Changes - 7/3/2007 5:52:42 PM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline 		Consider this part of a challenge to explore new areas.  Sure it might be pleasent at times, however it will be rewarding in the end.  I believe you are in good hands though.  I suspect in part he is also sensitive to activities that please you as well. ;^) I myself have not fully explored my sadistic sides, perhaps if I do, I might become bored with it in time.  Call it a fad or trend going on for the moment.

Are you worried that he might loose his sensual side completely to the dark sadistic force?  I would say simply express your concerns as best you can.  It's up to him to listen, process and consider things.   Us Doms can only do the best we can do knowing the truth.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: When Compatibility Changes - 7/3/2007 6:09:59 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Noah and CD, thank you for the words of encouragment. 

This post was more a curiosity for me than anything else.  I have a very deep faith that things will work out for the best for our family.  Two years ago the thought of submitting to having needles stuck into me for play was just too much to even comprehend.  I would get squicked just from seeing pictures of it done.  Today, I am starting to anticipate it and not for the activity but because he wants to do it. 

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: When Compatibility Changes - 7/3/2007 6:22:14 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile

Are you worried that he might loose his sensual side completely to the dark sadistic force?  I would say simply express your concerns as best you can.  It's up to him to listen, process and consider things.   Us Doms can only do the best we can do knowing the truth.


Your question made me smile; he doesn't have much of a sensual side, not when it comes to sex and play.  He is very loving and expresses deep emotions to Alandra and I, but he is not usually sensual during sex or play. 

I remember the first week that we were together he and I had sex and he did not hurt me.  I was worried that he didn't like me anymore and I think I cried.  *g*  Pain is foreplay for us and it is rare that we have sex without it, so no, I am not worried that will go away.

We have discussed this in-depth and he will move forward when he thinks I am ready.  I am not really worried about it anymore.  As someone said, I am in the relationship because of the man and not because of the activities that we may or may not do.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Knight's Kyra



_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
Profile   Post #: 39
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