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RE: Has your use of a safeword always been respected? - 7/2/2007 7:21:13 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

"I never play with a safeword"


Translation: I am a fluffy dom and don't play very hard



Or it could also mean "I prefer a more traditional means of communication and I also understand that I have a responsibility to be in touch with and aware of where my partner is at in a scene in case communication is compromised."

But you already knew that as is evidenced here:
quote:

  I play much harder now even though I would still consider my play pretty fluffy and I rely on my skills to recognize where my partner is at and I rely on her to communicate with me what is going on.  I don't "play" with a safeword but that isn't the same as saying I don't want to know where my partner is at.


_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Has your use of a safeword always been respected? - 7/2/2007 7:42:28 AM   
GhitaAmati


Posts: 3263
Joined: 5/30/2007
Status: offline 		Ive never used a safeword, although at plublic play parties the DM's always go around asking you if you know your safeword and I always say yes (mines fire by the way cause I always figured if I ever did have to yell my safeword, Id wanna cause as much trouble for everyone else as possible. can you imagine all the Doms rushing to untie their subs and everyone rushing around cause someone screamed FIRE!!) ** im really sadistic im my own subbie way**

Anyway, since ive never used my safeword, I cant say that its ever been disrespected, But the limits I put in place before a scene were once disrespected and by the time it happened I was so far gone I wasnt realizing it. I wasnt playing with my Sir, he wasnt even there in fact, but I was working at a fetish party and one of our vendors asked if they could use me for a demo. I knew the guy for several years but had never played with him, but I trusted him and said yes. Told him I couldnt have any marks that I couldnt hide with a tshirt and shorts. Honestly, was the only limits I gave the guy, thought I was being pretty darn easy to get along with. Three hours later I am covered with deep tissue bruising. Not talking about the welts and skin deep bruises that go away in a few days. I was black, blue, purple, brown, green, and fading to yellow for almost a month. All the way down the back of my thighs. I have never played with the guy since, and he is no longer alowed to be a vendor in a few venues across the state of florida.  I was angry, but I didnt personally say anything to the guy, I allowed my Sir and my mentor to handle it together. I dont know what they said to him, but Im sure it wasnt pretty.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Has your use of a safeword always been respected? - 7/2/2007 7:44:51 AM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline 		I think there is some confusion here about what is meant by safewords, the nature of the relationships in which they may or may not be used, and also the degree of reliance on safewords.

A safeword doesn't have to represent the absolute outer limit ... and a hard limit shouldn't generally be pushed, so those who said use of a safeword would have transgressed their limits ... this is not necessarily the case. Safewords are more usually used to indicate when one is approaching a point where the sub cannot tolerate much more at that point in time. What a sub CAN tolerate varies immensely from day to day and even moment to moment ... so relying entirely on nonverbal cues (or thoughts of "I hit her that hard last week so it will be OK again this week!") may not be the best. Many Dominants use progressive safewords such as "orange" and then "red". Orange leaves the Dominant in control ... there is a choice to back off, maintain similar intensity, or push harder. Especially when playing with boys, I set up the expectation that I will want to hear "orange" at some point, as too many of them get foolishly macho! I will specifically ask them after a hard stroke whether that was orange or not if their body "told" Me it really hurt but I didn't hear a word from their lips. Often they will then say "umm yes Maam, that was close to orange" ... the save face thing!

For Me, safewords are primarily for newbies or the relatively inexperienced ... they do allow the sub to retain some measure of control, so it's not total submission. But it does allow them to explore various activities in a risk-aware way. They are most needed for "casual" play ... though I am not casual in My attitude towards any sub I play with, I am using that term to denote play with someone I am not in a full time relationship with. I don't yet know the person fully, nor they Me ... so a safeword/gesture is just one extra little piece of information that will help both of U/us enjoy the scene. As a sub, i don't really operate with Master using safewords ... but then, W/we have been 24/7 for 3 years and He knows me intimately ... He can often see when i am starting to go hypo before i realise it and He has way better control over my bladder than i do! Nonetheless, should something unexpectedly go wrong ... as in the time i was in bondage and suddenly felt faint ... i managed to shout "red! gonna fffaaaint" before i actually did, which gave Him just enough time to grab me (i was bound in such a position that i could have fallen over and hurt myself as i fainted) and then He cut me loose and took care of me. i know He would respect a safeword if He heard it.

Finally, as to reliance on it ... no, it's certainly not the ONLY thing I rely on. It's just one little piece of the puzzle. One part of the complex interaction between sub and Dom/me. And if I judge that a person's skin has had enough, I will stop, whether I have heard a safeword or not. I am also well aware that the deeper a sub goes into space, the less likely they will be able to even say their safeword, so I certainly don't entirely rely on it. To do so would be foolish.

By the way, I think it's important that the safeword concept isn't just applied to physical impact or pain play. It can also be useful should a Dominant press a mental or emotional trigger that causes undue distress. And Dominants can safeword too as a means of closing the scene if for some reason they feel things are getting out of hand. I have seen a Dominant do that when their sub's slightly cheeky responses inadvertently pushed an emotional button in the Dominant, raising true and sudden anger. Rather than lash out, He called red and asked Me (as I was standing nearby and knew them quite well) to look after His girl for a few minutes while He went and calmed down. Naturally she was upset and confused ... I sat with her and said I realised she hadn't meant to upset Him and I was pretty confident He would realise it too and that His calling off the scene was BECAUSE He cared for her and knew it was wrong to continue when He wasn't in control. Sure enough, He returned a few minutes later and said just that. They went off to a private spot to talk about it in more detail. I admired Him thoroughly for His action ... especially at a play party where He might have felt considerable peer pressure to continue. That took guts!

As in most things, to each their own, but I would argue that in the circumstances I have described, safewords may be more of a help than a hindrance. And I have spoken to a number of subs who have in the past had a safeword ignored, and not respected ... which terminated the relationship. I would say to the Dominants who did that ... was it worth it? They may have lost a potentially valuable sub ... and they just made it a bit harder for someone else to win the trust of the sub. Not a worthwhile outcome in My book.

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Has your use of a safeword always been respected? - 7/2/2007 7:45:35 AM   
Tenebrious


Posts: 101
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: right behind you
Status: offline 		I prefer not to use specific prescripted words, because I like to check in much more often than "I'm done now."  I find you can get much more enjoyment from play when there's consistent feedback, letting you know exactly where the other person is and how much more they think they can take.

I'm also an advocate of the idea that you should always be completely sure that you can trust somebody to stop before you play with them, so I've never run into a situation where my own limits weren't respected.

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Has your use of a safeword always been respected? - 7/2/2007 7:51:49 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline 		Thank you all for your wonderful answers so far.  Thanks for the links also, LA.  They're all about safewords but nothing quite like exactly what I'm asking.  I've only been on here about 4 months but I couldn't recall seeing this question asked.  Seems that most people are saying what I'd expected: that, IF they use safewords and IF they weren't respected, then no more play with the one who violated that trust.  I was pretty curious as to whether or not that happens very often, to be honest. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dini
I have used my safeword twice in over 10 years as a switch, the first time It was ignored and yes as a previous writer mentioned, that was the end of the relationship.. I never played with the Dom in question again and to tell the truth it drove me out of the scene for close on 3 years. I could not trust another to bring a cane near me till very recently, the physical scars healed within a week or so, but the fear remained

I can certainly understand that.  It's sad that it would cause you to withdraw, especially for so long.  One person's violation of you can have such lasting effects. 
quote:

there is NO excuse for a Dom/me to disregard a safe word… for a submissive the use of a safe word is one of the most difficult actions ever, feelings of having disappointed the Dom/me, fear of not being good enough and yes in the case of a guy, the fear of being seen an a wimp all combine to make it a big leap of faith and trust in the Dominant that allows the sub to shout “red” .  Not respecting that word, if it was agreed upon is the single action that turns an otherwise magical experience into abuse.

Yes - totally agreed.  I mean, if safe words are going to be utilized, then they must be respected.  Why even have them if they aren't going to be honored?.................luci

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RE: Has your use of a safeword always been respected? - 7/2/2007 7:51:54 AM   
GhitaAmati


Posts: 3263
Joined: 5/30/2007
Status: offline 		Maam Jay, I want to thank you for your words. Back before I decided to be a stay at home mommy, my work consisted of spending almost every weekend at a fetish party, bdsm club, or convention somewheres. I see so many people with different thoughts of when a safeword should and shouldnt be used. We use yellow to mean "I dont want you to stop but please slow down" and red to mean "stop, now."

I know in a commited relationship, many people have a different idea of safewording and what it means to them, but in a scene aspect, where a good number of players who are playing together are doing it for the first time, or have only played together a few times, beign able to give cues to the Top is vital.

I agree with your words and thank you for taking the time to share them.

ghita

(in reply to MaamJay)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Has your use of a safeword always been respected? - 7/2/2007 7:58:19 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

"I never play with a safeword"



Translation: I am a fluffy dom and don't play very hard




Or it could also mean "I prefer a more traditional means of communication and I also understand that I have a responsibility to be in touch with and aware of where my partner is at in a scene in case communication is compromised."

But you already knew that as is evidenced here:
quote:

  I play much harder now even though I would still consider my play pretty fluffy and I rely on my skills to recognize where my partner is at and I rely on her to communicate with me what is going on.  I don't "play" with a safeword but that isn't the same as saying I don't want to know where my partner is at.


Erin.........as always.........  I wasn't going to "take the bait" because, as you pointed out, Michael does know the importance of knowing where his partner is at, as he said.  And what he said about not having a frame of reference without knowing the dynamic of each couple is so true.  I wasn't so much asking about whether people should have safewords and that whole debate.  I was interested in knowing IF you use them and IF they aren't honored, THEN what happened?  I also wondered if that (ignoring the sub/slave's use of their safeword) happens fairly regularly across the board.  Very interesting convo so far.  Thanks..........luci

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(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Has your use of a safeword always been respected? - 7/2/2007 8:09:22 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Hello luci
 
I hesitated answering this thread, simply because I don't use safewords persay - so I felt a bit redundant!
I personally wouldn't scene with someone who I needed a safeword with - because I believe if you know your partner well enough then you just know when to end.  I know that doesn't always work for people who participate in one off scenes - but I am not a one off scene kinda person.  When people say safeword - they assume the usual though - words or an action of dropping a ball etc... however I see my whole self as the safeword.  That said - your question is a good one, but I would ask, what about people just abusing the scene or person point blank?  If people don't use safewords, or rather - that their 'body' and 'reactions' is the safeword - do they experience people abusing that and going past that edge?
Fortunately I never have experienced that.
 
Peace
the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Has your use of a safeword always been respected? - 7/2/2007 8:13:01 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		The other interesting thing about this issue is the ones (often, NOT always) who are most vociferous about safewords being important are also the ones who think massive amounts of aftercare are important.  In other words, subs are so "lost, spaced out, helpless, etc" that they need aftercare but are completely competent when it comes to using a safeword.

I go past safewords and sometimes stop when they are begging for more because I think I know better.  This last weekend my partner did NOT want me to hold back on two separate things, I decided to hold back on both.  We both know I was right about one of them and the other one I felt I didn't know what the hell I was doing and wanted to educate myself before going farther. 

Safewords are like stop signs.  Lots of accidents around them, sometimes you don't see one and go through it and get sideswiped cause you are an idiot.  Sometimes you stop at one and some other idiot rear ends you.  Shit happens and counting on a safeword as some miracle is stupid, it is a tool, nothing more.

The problem with this whole debate is you don't know who you are talking to.  My opinion has changed on the issue due to experience (defined as avoided disasters and unavoided disasters) and my skill at reading my partner AND the particular partner I have.  My ignoring a safeword today is far safer and "better" than when I was less experience and had a lesser partner years ago and didn't ignore safewords.  However, how do you know if I am full of shit, just bragging, too stupid to know better or a god among men?  You don't.

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Has your use of a safeword always been respected? - 7/2/2007 8:16:39 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
That said - your question is a good one, but I would ask, what about people just abusing the scene or person point blank?  If people don't use safewords, or rather - that their 'body' and 'reactions' is the safeword - do they experience people abusing that and going past that edge?

Sounds like a good thread in it's own right.  Why don't you start that one?  A very good question it is.  I'll respond to it............luci

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(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Has your use of a safeword always been respected? - 7/2/2007 8:19:50 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

For those subs/slaves who do use safewords, have you ever been in a situation where you used it and it was not respected and the activity continued? 

No.
quote:


If so, once the "scene" was over, what was your reaction or how was it handled? 
 
If I was in that situation, I would tie his balls and penis into a pretty bow. Or call the cops, depending on what he did. If I safeworded yellow to remind him that we aren't supposed to be having sex and he looks like he might be considering it(say I'm playing with someone other then Valyraen) then I would put him in jail on rape charges if he actually did it. Of course in that situation, other and stronger words would also be said... If it was with Valyraen it would be more complicated but we would definately have to take a time out to reconsider our relationship before playing again. I don't safeword for the hell of it. When I use it something is very seriously wrong and I need his attention.
quote:


 Did it cause you to never engage in such activity with that dom again?  

Oh hell yes. A dominant who won't respect my safeword isn't worth my time. I've used it once that I can remember and that was when a toy had malfunctioned and causing me intense pain that Valyraen didn't want. If they don't want a safeword in their personal relationships, that is fine by me. But when I play with someone, I make sure ahead of that they will respect my safeword. If they then didn't, then they are liar and not someone I can trust to tie me up again.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 7/2/2007 8:21:51 AM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Has your use of a safeword always been respected? - 7/2/2007 8:28:16 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
The other interesting thing about this issue is the ones (often, NOT always) who are most vociferous about safewords being important are also the ones who think massive amounts of aftercare are important.  In other words, subs are so "lost, spaced out, helpless, etc" that they need aftercare but are completely competent when it comes to using a safeword.

Very good point and not one I'd thought about. 
quote:

I go past safewords and sometimes stop when they are begging for more because I think I know better.  This last weekend my partner did NOT want me to hold back on two separate things, I decided to hold back on both.  We both know I was right about one of them and the other one I felt I didn't know what the hell I was doing and wanted to educate myself before going farther.

I see what you're saying.  My question, though, basically boils down to why even go through the pretense of having safewords if the dom is not going to listen/stop when they're used?  I mean, why not just say:  "I am experienced and will be aware of when I should stop, slow down, or simply continue.  I will decide this not you.  So, don't bother using any safeword."  That's basically how things work in my relationship.  As you described, He trusts that He will know when to stop or continue and He has never been wrong yet.  It's just like has been mentioned - rather than depending on a word, He reads my entire body and depends on what He sees/hears more than on just hearing a word.  That's cool and if that's the way it's going to be, why don't doms just say that instead of giving the sub/slave the "false hope" that their safeword is actually going to be respected?
quote:

Shit happens and counting on a safeword as some miracle is stupid, it is a tool, nothing more.

OK.
quote:

The problem with this whole debate is you don't know who you are talking to.  My opinion has changed on the issue due to experience (defined as avoided disasters and unavoided disasters) and my skill at reading my partner AND the particular partner I have.  My ignoring a safeword today is far safer and "better" than when I was less experience and had a lesser partner years ago and didn't ignore safewords

Okay, I totally see what you're saying.  I do agree with the point you make.  I'm not doing scholarly research, though, just curious.  I guess I was just interested in hearing about how often safewords aren't respected and, if so, what was the reaction/fallout.  But, you make a great point.
quote:

However, how do you know if I am full of shit, just bragging, too stupid to know better or a god among men?  You don't.

Well, I thought it was already established that you were a "god among men."  Seriously.....I don't know anymore about you than anyone else online.  However, as we've discussed on other threads, I think that once someone posts regularly and their "story" holds up over time, you can kind of tell who's "bs-ing" it all and who's really doing what they say.  Suffice it to say, I think you're on the up & up (call it a hunch...lol) and I do appreciate your input.  As usual, you helped me to see things from a different angle..........luci

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(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Has your use of a safeword always been respected? - 7/2/2007 8:31:21 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Ha luci -
 
I have already started a couple of threads in the past handful of days - that's enough for me this week (and enough for everyone else too).  It was more a rhetorical thought than anything else...
You might have only been on CM a 'short' time in your words - but I am digging your posts...
 
Peace
the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Has your use of a safeword always been respected? - 7/2/2007 11:34:34 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Luci,

You wrote about me:
quote:

  Well, I thought it was already established that you were a "god among men."


While I appreciate the compliment I would hope that the image I project is that of a very mortal and imperfect man.  I have made plenty of mistakes, some of the same ones that get people flamed and denounced here as "fake" or a "bad dom" and even others that are too fucked up to appear here.  I still make mistakes, I still have moments of uncertaintly and confusion as well as self doubt.  

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Has your use of a safeword always been respected? - 7/2/2007 12:27:46 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
Luci,
You wrote about me:
quote:

  Well, I thought it was already established that you were a "god among men."

While I appreciate the compliment I would hope that the image I project is that of a very mortal and imperfect man.  I have made plenty of mistakes, some of the same ones that get people flamed and denounced here as "fake" or a "bad dom" and even others that are too fucked up to appear here.  I still make mistakes, I still have moments of uncertaintly and confusion as well as self doubt

Michael,
I said that "tongue-in-cheek," of course, though I do think your posts are always full of much truth and good advice.  One of the things I've always liked about the way you come across in your posts is mirrored in what you say above.  You are not afraid to admit that you have imperfections and that you've made (and continue to make) mistakes and errors in judgment.  You admit that you've found yourself uncertain and confused at times.  Far from being "fake" or "bad," I think this is one of the hallmarks of the great ones like my own Master.  He has never pretended to be all-knowing and perfect.  He is a flawed human being who (doesn't know everything but) knows me better than anyone ever has and who is perfect (not in all matters but) for me.  I'm sure your special one(s) would say the same of you.  Thanks for always being so honest......luci

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RE: Has your use of a safeword always been respected? - 7/2/2007 12:39:07 PM   
imthatacheyouhav


Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline 		My situation is a little different than this. Before i even need to use my safe word, my Master has reached HIS limit for inflicting pain....

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**collared July 22 2007 by LordKen**

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Has your use of a safeword always been respected? - 7/2/2007 12:43:36 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav
My situation is a little different than this. Before i even need to use my safe word, my Master has reached HIS limit for inflicting pain....

....I can relate to that, too.  Sometimes a Man's arms just get too tired...........luci

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(in reply to imthatacheyouhav)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Has your use of a safeword always been respected? - 7/2/2007 1:39:33 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

The other interesting thing about this issue is the ones (often, NOT always) who are most vociferous about safewords being important are also the ones who think massive amounts of aftercare are important.  In other words, subs are so "lost, spaced out, helpless, etc" that they need aftercare but are completely competent when it comes to using a safeword.



I like aftercare.

Not because I think they are lost, spaced out, or helpless.

I like feeling them shiver and snuggle into my neck under the blanket and hearing those quiet and happy sighs.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Has your use of a safeword always been respected? - 7/2/2007 4:07:21 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline 		This may be off topic but many have said that they where tied up and there for when the safe word wasnt resepcted they had no way to stop the scene themselfs. That just got me to thinking about the one safety messure I have always used since I first started playing. When playing with someone for the first few times I dont allow them to bind me in anyway, this is why I was able to stop the scene I was talking about in my first reply to this thread. Maybe Im to coushouse but I use that rule as well as the color systom when playing with someone new. At the moment I only play when with people besides Master when Master wishes me too, and he is always there watching so that is an added messure of safety, but I know a lot of people who play dont have Masters to watch out for them when sceneing with someone new.. Anyway I see nothing wrong with not allowing someone to make you completley helpless by binding you if you have never played befor or havent played many times, but its just me and its just an idea!!

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Has your use of a safeword always been respected? - 7/2/2007 4:56:12 PM   
meticulousgirl


Posts: 969
Joined: 2/20/2007
Status: offline 		In my previous relationship No my safeword wasn't respected and that's why I left them, it's a crappy feeling to be beaten and sent away when they know your first of all brand new, and second of all when they know that you are in no state of mind to be driving after being tied and whipped for two and a half hours straight (yeah you might as well call it abuse)

In my current, I dont think I've ever used a safeword but I have one and know that if I used it, it would be respected.

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 40
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