RE: what makes someone "useless" (Full Version)

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popeye1250 -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/2/2007 4:25:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

quote:

ORIGINAL: dragone
Just a brief note. Hitler had the perfect solution...the ovens.
To define useless people...they are life unworthy of life.  No bank account, like Anuld...you are useless; good for nothing, spoiled meat.
Money, defines your use....your position to make money, like Anuld...defines if you are life, worthy of life.
Anything less, you are for harvesting.
Just take a look at some of these profiles on CM; read what the average 'whore' considers worth her/his time.

Not really sure whether you grasp how this post "comes across" Dragone but to say the least it has its unpleasant side !!!!!!


Seeks, lol maybe we should start a post!
"Ok, who goes in the fuckin' ovens?"



cjenny -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/2/2007 4:32:19 PM)

Agreed. I've never met another person & considered them a useless human being..
I'm told I lean heavily on the empathetic side towards people. For me it doesn't take much of a stretch to see how they could be the way they are. Following that, it doesn't take much of a stretch of the imagine to see myself living in their world and seeing why they are the way they are.

I don't think every one is good. I do think that every person has the potential for good. Like a small kernal inside . I think too that a lot of people can't or won't reach that potential. However, if I try and find out why they haven't reached it then at least I know them a bit better.
If I understand someones way of thinking then I'm much more apt to be (ugh I can't find the word, it is not 'forgiving' for there is nothing to forgive but it is something close to that  and I don't want to use 'empathy' again lol).

Some don't try. Some don't know they can try. Some try & fail.

All are being judged though, aren't they? Where does the line fall? How do you know if the uselessness should be gauged by productivity or artistic endeavor?

That's why I can't ever say someone else is useless. The only person I can honestly judge, the only person I can fully know as to their use is myself.



dragone -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/2/2007 4:36:12 PM)

Hi Seeks; I've been reading these posts, and a lot has some real truth therein. Really not so very much of these posts have a brighter side. As for my experiences, it's always centered around money, what my value is, determines what my use is. As long as I was able to produce, funnel money to my ex, and be exploited by my clients, I was useful. When I fulfilled what the law required from me to my ex, I was of no use to her, and when I asked for a piece of the action from my client; I was of no use to them.

So, all in all; for me, my value and use comes in the amount of money I make for other people. That's it. Me being a 'good guy' doing the right thing, having hopes, dreams, being square in business, working for what I recieved, trying not to be a dredge on society, amounts to...what a fool.

The murderers, rapists, thieves, ...the preditors on society are nothing to me, animals; and to me, life unworthy of life.

Those that are old, made their way, paid their dues, deserve respect and the benefits they earned; those invalided or disabled, sick, deserve the care, one would give to any other human being, and especially from a society of such vast abundance as this US; and to squander trillions upon trillions for the greed of a handful, while seeking venues to cut and deprive those in need is...the worst of the human race.

There will always be the 'sponge' of society, the preditor, and how to deal with them, is a complex matter indeed. The parasite will feed on it's host, no matter what.

My last post, just described the view of the elitist, those that have; and, a lot of them have achieved what they have by the blood and sweat of others, by exploitation to the max.

Maybe, I should just stick with 'bean counting' usefulness.

Sorry for butting in.



dragone -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/2/2007 4:39:03 PM)

Hey popeye; who goes in the ovens would relie on 'wheres Chealse'.



MistressNoName -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/2/2007 6:29:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: instynctive

Mistress NoName.. this is completely OT, but I love your avatar.. :-)



instynctive:

And an equally OT response. Thank you, although I guess I shouldn't take credit for it, since I didn't design it. But thanks. I love it, too.. [:)]

MNN



Griswold -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/2/2007 7:52:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

This came up in the "whilst you are fast asleep in your bed" thread - the idea that some people are just plain, all round useless. Not useless at some things but totally hopeless at everything in life in general, unable to or unwilling to compete or even participate in society.

I wondered how one could define such uselessness, if its possible at all? There are a fair few people in my neighbourhood who appear to be useless - perfectly fit and able, not afflicted with anything but yet not taking any part in the world at all and in fact being a drain on society with petty criminality and reliance on benefits. Yet theyre not actually useless - so is it a lifestyle choice, and if so is it a less valid lifestyle choice because they dont fund it themselves or because we disapprove of how they spend their lives? And is that why we deem them useless?

Then there are a fair few people I know who suffer depression, amongst other illnesses - they probably come closest to what I would describe as useless but not in a nasty way, but because they just have no motivation because of their illness, which is hardly their fault.

Then there is another group, which crosses over with the two earlier mentioned - the alcoholics and drug addicts. They dont work because they cant as no one would hire them, and in the main dont want to work either, preferring the haze of substance abuse to reality. But then, when I have got to know these people, they are hardly useless either, and are hooked on whatever it is because of mental illness, abuse or some other trauma which took them down that road in the first place - a reality they couldnt face which booze or drugs hid from them for a while.

And of all these groups, there a very few who, if they were to die tomorrow their deaths would not affect anyone except insofar as the quality of life for those remaining would improve. Harsh, but true. Is that what makes someone useless, in that they have negative worth in the world?

But throughout all these groups, the recurrent theme I see is of lives squandered by parental and/or peer influence and lives damaged by the same causes. The potential of a human life thrown away because of the lack of concern and care and the active demonstration of their opposites. So, is a "useless" person then the product of such a process of neglect and abuse, and a natural product at that?

And from that, do we do ourselves and our children any good whatsoever by repeating the same process with new victims for the meat grinder of life and reinforcing the notion that damaged human beings are useless, so that for generations to come we shall have the "useless" forever in society?

Or is such a categorisation inevitable in a species which is as competitive as ours, where some will fall to the bottom just as some will rise to the top, and that whatever we attempt to do, this will occur regardless because of the vagaries of what is a dangerous life in an uncertain world?

E


Response to the question (not the posit);
 
"What makes someone useless..."

Someone that doesn't do what they say they will.

(Tell me anything...but never fail to tell me the truth).



petdave -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/2/2007 7:57:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

It always amuses me that when this kind of post comes up all those who comment will invariably see the negative factor mentioned in.....others, never themselves. Why is that I ask myself ?

Now speaking for myself I would have to say I am a pretty useless human being, I dont do much, dont go anywhere much, have a low opinion of many that I meet and I cant see that anyone will be much affected when I take the final motorcycle ride into the sky. I am reasonably content and if I could play the piano better I  might even stretch to being happy, now and then !
Am I the only one that can be so brutally honest about myself ?


Nah, i'm there too. i have a job, and distribute the procedes thereof faithfully to mortgage lenders, auto lenders, more insurance companies than i can even keep track of, and the occasional home improvement warehouse. i generally keep myself off the streets. i consume lots of salt, saturated fats, and sugar, and output invoices and lines of code on behalf of a company that itself does not actually create anything of substance. i don't really see anything in there that i could honestly call "value". i figure that the success i have is mostly luck, and subject to the whims and vicissitudes of fate. So it goes.

...dave



slaveish -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/2/2007 9:51:52 PM)

~fast reply without reading all replies first~


When I meditate, especially when I meditate outside at night under the stars, feeling the breeze on my skin and my hair turning to tangles, I feel the collective energy of all living things. We are all a part of the whole. There are people I do not care for, there are lifestyle choices I do not agree with. But I can assure you, from a place very basic and distant from the "civility" of me, that there are no useless people.



gooddogbenji -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/2/2007 9:57:58 PM)

Equally fast reply, also without reading all replies:

I do not think there are useless people, I simply have no reason to support their decisions, be they past, present or future.

Essentially, people end up on the streets for hundreds of reasons, but I maintain that if you want to get off the street you can.  And no one is predetermined to end up on the streets - many well-off, respectable people have had a stint on the streets, and the people on the street come from any sort of background, wealthy, poor, abusive, great homes, etc.

If you tae responsibility for your situation, you can fix it.

Yours,


benji



Quivver -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/3/2007 3:34:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dragone

it's always centered around money,


Societys view somehow always sneaks in to our reality.
I guess I'm off to the ovens...........  [&o]



pahunkboy -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/3/2007 3:42:28 AM)

my mom is fast to dislike a nieghbor. well- my outlook is if they dont live there- someone else would- and no telling what that person may be.

as long as people dont interfere with my life- then they are of use. [to me]

if the person is out for trouble on me- then- they are useless.

my best guess on this- is walk a mile in thier shoes-= and then maybe some light would come of it.

a word of wisodm when i lived 25 years in chicago. the guys in the ties were as bad as the gang bangors. both groups would take from you- albeit a different method.  one posh area- i counted just one home that the owner did nothing shady to "make it", all else were questionale.



dragone -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/3/2007 8:47:56 AM)

Oh NO Quivver; never submit to the oven; never

I hate victims who respect their executioners.

Money, is the only reality.



LaTigresse -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/3/2007 8:50:33 AM)

LadyE........I could introduce you to my exhusband(if I could find him). You would then meet a really useless human being. I don't think anyone will even care when he finally does that last overdose.



Quivver -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/3/2007 2:40:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dragone

Oh NO Quivver; never submit to the oven; never

I hate victims who respect their executioners.

Money, is the only reality.


Oh my Dear Dragone, Q is never easy to submit. 
Somehow I just know I would not find the ovens something dis ole bitch would respect.  Survival is built in............. 



colkron -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/3/2007 2:53:58 PM)

This thread upsets me. Who are ANY of us to judge the VALUE of another person? Who the hell are YOU to say? 



LaTigresse -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/3/2007 3:28:17 PM)

Well, as it applies to my ex.........I am the one that has had to pick up the pieces after his worthless ass for 29 years. However, if you want, I can try to put you in touch with him (last I knew he was living in a box in an orange grove in southern California so that might be tough ) and IF you can find one worth while trait in the creature, I will eat crow.



NeedToUseYou -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/3/2007 4:42:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colkron

This thread upsets me. Who are ANY of us to judge the VALUE of another person? Who the hell are YOU to say? 


LOL, so are you judging us incapable of making judgements of people.







Aneirin -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/3/2007 4:49:01 PM)

People who we deem useless for whatever reason do have a use and that use is for us to compare them against ourselves and make us feel better about our own lives.



switchsecrets -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/3/2007 4:57:03 PM)

Nobody is completely "useless",  they can always serve as a bad example.



dragone -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/5/2007 12:31:08 AM)

Yes sir; absolutely correct; Not everyone is solely useless; IE; the drug addict; without them, the police wouldn't have these guys to arrest, the docs wouldn't have need for more funding for equipment, medicines, health programs, the gov would not have need to squander more taxpayer's money on programs that don't work, not to mention gleaming some of the cream off the top for themselves.

The murderer, criminal element; without them, how would we jusify building more prisons, hiring more police, implementing more stricter laws, heavier punishments. Just like terrorists, without them how would we create more policing departments, more homeland security, more deprivation of the citizen's rights, more government control, more taxes to fund wars, building bigger and better military stuff, getting more guys into the armies, and off the streets looking for jobs that aren't to be found; and not to mention the rebuilding of the country we bomb to oblivion, all to protect our way of life.

Just about everybody has a use, and is not a total loss, even La Tigresse's ex has a use, she just dosen't see it...I mean, what the hell would we do with all those empty Appliance boxes, he supplies a use for them, he lives in one, and helps to not populte the air, by burning these things, saves on the garbage dumps too, we are running out of land to dump the garbage, these trashed appliance boxes, so he provide a use; living in one.

The total derilict provides a use, is useful, politicans can create programs, tax the people, skim off some for themselves so they can buy a boat or another hummer, or a second or third home, and take their girlfriend to hawaii leaving their wife and kids at home, well cared for by maids, credit cards...oh need I go on.

So, when you stop and really think about it, there really isn't any useless people.



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