RE: what makes someone "useless"

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velvetears -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/6/2007 8:27:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy If you kill someone who is unarmed who breaks into your home....Your family is probably going to miss you. He doesn't have to stay unarmed [;)] i would rather be missed than have to mourn the loss of anyone i loved. Sinergy where do you get your 99.9 stats from about break ins? i hear on the news almost every night here in NY about some person being murdred in their home, or gunned down in the street, or beaten by some gang just for kicks, or car jacking where the victim was beaten, rapes etc, people thrown off roofs. i am not at all a gun person, but i am sure if someone entered the home and heard the noise of a shotgun being prepared to be fired they would think twice about whatever it was they planned to do. Seeks sorry to hear about your aunt - that must have been heartwrenching - i hope those bastards rot in hell.

dragone -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/6/2007 9:34:13 AM)
Hey Domiguy; This happened in Michigan: Two thugs broke into this guys house, via the basement window. They were about to rob him. His family is upstairs; He hears some noise, takes his rifle, goes to the basement, and low and behold two theves. they broke and entered;, he shoots, one killing him, shoots the other, wounding him, calls the police; the police come, take one theif to the morgue, the other to ER; the guy is arrested, charged with manslaughter, and/or murder; trial is set, he defends his case, costs are astranomical, he is sued by the surviving thief, for millions, he loses his property, is incarcerated...and whatever else happened, I lost track.

slaveish -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/6/2007 9:48:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dragone In Michigan, the only person who is allowed, by law, to use deadly force to defend themselves, is a woman. So ... the state's laws are not held to any sort of anti-discrimination standard? Interesting. Oh. Wait. Or did you mean one woman in particular? "The only person ... is a woman." That must be some woman.

dragone -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/6/2007 9:50:43 AM)
Hi Velvettears; Hey, I asked the very same questions of the police there. A man, must meet force with equal force, defending himself. A woman is the only gender who can kill with impunity; if you are pregant, better still. If I weigh in at 285 lbs, am 6'5" tall, and my attacker is 150 Lbs, 5'9" tall, and I beat him to a bloody pulp...I will get sued, arrested, and have to prove my innocence, that me beating him was justifiable. If he attacked me with a baseball bat, they would consider that of =Force Vs =Force, given my size. If he attacks me with a knife, I pull out a gun, shoot him, I am arrested, =Force Vs.= Force does not applie. If I wound him, I will be sued, If I kill him, his family will sue me. The least charge I could hope for is manslaughter. So, all in all, crazy as it is; that is Michigan. You cannot carry a pistol, you must get permission from the police, if you are even going to the range for pratice, inform them of the route, time of day, that is, if you are to obey the law. You can however carry a shotgun in your car, loaded, however it must be in a rifle scabbard. In MIchigan, they have one of the toughest gun control laws in the country, to protect the citizen. And, never mind, that Detriot holds the record of the teenage murder capitol of the world.

ElectraGlide -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/6/2007 10:13:05 AM)
A useless person is some one with the ability and talent to do something meaningfully and does nothing. Just think of people with true handicaps and dis-abilities that can not do something and only wishes they could. Then again we have people that are lawyers that are paralyzed in wheel chairs and bums in tent villages staying stoned and drunk. The bums in my town stand out at the intersections with signs begging and then they go into the liquor store tens times a day with the money they get. People feel sorry for them, because they do not know, about the lifestyle scam they have. People write the newspaper and try to get these drunks help and make a lot of noise about it. By the way Lady Ellen I like the post you make here on the forums. You have a smart and real balanced approach, that makes sense to me.

Sinergy -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/6/2007 10:28:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears Sinergy where do you get your 99.9 stats from about break ins? i hear on the news almost every night here in NY about some person being murdred in their home, or gunned down in the street, or beaten by some gang just for kicks, or car jacking where the victim was beaten, rapes etc, people thrown off roofs. velvetears, I work in the self defense industry, and actually deal fairly frequently with various experts in the self-defense and personal protection field. The most recent use of that statistic was by my boss and the owner of the company I work for at a corporate event I was the male assailant for last week. It also correlates with other research I have done on my own. If you are interested, you can view crime statistics compiled by the New York Police Department which go back over 100 years. I do not have a link, but if you are interested perhaps I can dig one up. The ones which make it to the news are the horror stories of multiple armed assailant home invasions, gang rapes, militia uprisings, etc. The fact that the vast majority of crimes are a single, unarmed intruder means that these sorts of things dont make the news. So what the news agencies treat the rest of us to are the freakish crimes, giving the populace a false sense that all crimes are by bizarre wackos. Sinergy edited to point out that the sound of a shotgun being cocked, while a frightening noise, might be doing exactly the same thing as yelling "get the fuck out of my house, I called the police." The only point I am making relates back to actually doing a good full-body ventilation of the intruder.

luckydog1 -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/6/2007 10:43:48 AM)
There are no useless people, only useless fetuses...

Sinergy -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/6/2007 11:07:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydog1 There are no useless people, only useless fetuses... Dont forget useless administrations. Sinergy

domiguy -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/6/2007 11:24:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TankII7871 quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy If you kill someone who is unarmed who breaks into your home....Your family is probably going to miss you. well I live in the south and i carry a a gun have all the paper work and everything and its simple here if someone breaks into my house i have the legal right to send them back trough the door window what ever they used to get in with a nice bullet in them. Now if you don't believe that you can always say what ever you want. But the simple fact is that said person broke in and even if they didn't have anything in their hands they still had hands. Now some people live where they cant defend them selfs to those people all i can say is Move. Not all states have accepted the "Castle doctrine"....If someone is threatening your life or the lives of your loved ones it seems a reasonable conclusion to end the situation as quickly as possible.

thompsonx -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/6/2007 12:25:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dragone Hi Velvettears; Hey, I asked the very same questions of the police there. A man, must meet force with equal force, defending himself. A woman is the only gender who can kill with impunity; if you are pregant, better still. Women may not kill with impunity...anyone who says so is mistaken. If I weigh in at 285 lbs, am 6'5" tall, and my attacker is 150 Lbs, 5'9" tall, and I beat him to a bloody pulp...I will get sued, arrested, and have to prove my innocence, that me beating him was justifiable. If you are 285lbs. and 6'5" and you cannot restrain a 150lbs. 5'9" attacker without beating them to a bloody pulp that is prima facia evidence that you are guilty of battery. If he attacked me with a baseball bat, they would consider that of =Force Vs =Force, given my size. If he attacks me with a knife, I pull out a gun, shoot him, I am arrested, =Force Vs.= Force does not applie. What sort of fool brings a knife to a gunfight? If I wound him, I will be sued, If I kill him, his family will sue me. The least charge I could hope for is manslaughter. So, all in all, crazy as it is; that is Michigan. If you do not like the laws in Michigan why do you continue to dwell there? You cannot carry a pistol, you must get permission from the police, if you are even going to the range for pratice, inform them of the route, time of day, that is, if you are to obey the law. You can however carry a shotgun in your car, loaded, however it must be in a rifle scabbard. In MIchigan, they have one of the toughest gun control laws in the country, to protect the citizen. And, never mind, that Detriot holds the record of the teenage murder capitol of the world. Guns don't kill people...people kill people. When you put guns in the hands of people who maintain an attitude of "Fuck with me and I will pop a cap in your ass"you wind up with one on a slab and one in the slam. That to me is two wasted lives. I have not killed a man in over forty years and those who died at my hand died only to make rich people richer. My point is that taking another humans life if a foolish thing to do and to make up bullshit scenarios for justifying it is just that ...bullshit... Most of the time your posts are more thoughtful and reasoned why you have such a blind spot here is beyond me.

thompsonx -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/6/2007 12:44:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl Well I spay and neuter MY pets because they aren't outstanding examples of the breeds and hence have no business reproducing. I come from the dog show world and good examples of the breed are left intact and bad ones aren't. GeekyGirl: I was just reading an article about how cops in this case the RCMP have to go to Europe to buy dogs ($1500 for pups) because the "dog show crowd" have bread to a standard that is not conducive to police work.

Alumbrado -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/6/2007 12:58:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears quote: ORIGINAL: dragone In the state of Michigan, you are required to run away. If your home is invaded, you discover the thief, you are required to exit by the nearest venue, window, door, whatever, leaving the house to the thief. The state's resoning is: no material item is worth a life. In Michigan, the only person who is allowed, by law, to use deadly force to defend themselves, is a woman. If the thief, invades your premises, and runs away, you are not allowed by law to chase, pursue, nor use any force to apprehend the thief, nor pursue to recover your property. That's crazy! So when someone enters your home your suppossed to use mental telepathy to determine he's only there to rob you and not rape you , abduct your children, beat you to a pulp for fun, etc etc... Someone enters my home they get what the deserve! It is a common misreading of the 'retreat to the wall' doctrine. No one is required to turn their back and run if doing so would put them in danger, or leave their loved ones in harm's way. Retreat is a factor if it can be safely and reasonably exercised as an option. In some states if youclearly and easily have that option and choose deadly force instead, your claims of self defense might be undermined. Those states are sometimes called 'mandatory Retreat' states.

Alumbrado -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/6/2007 12:59:53 PM)
quote: Hi Velvettears; Hey, I asked the very same questions of the police there. A man, must meet force with equal force, defending himself. A woman is the only gender who can kill with impunity; if you are pregant, better still. I give up...[8\|]

Level -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/6/2007 3:43:16 PM)
Useless? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19636099

SeeksOnlyOne -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/6/2007 3:49:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level Useless? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19636099 yep thats useless....but someone will scream they had a bad upbringing...its not their fault....blah blah blah..........instead of shooting them right between the eyes like they should have done.....that or cut with cleaning solution poured in it til.......holy chyt i may have a sadistic side after all......

Sinergy -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/6/2007 4:30:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx What sort of fool brings a knife to a gunfight? I have given this a lot of thought in my time here. I am trained for unarmed fighting, even against an armed assailant. I have studied a lot of weapons. Weapons do weird things like bounce off targets, vibrate out of one's hands, hit environmental objects, get dropped, stick in wounds, miss, misfire, get slippery covered with blood, etc. Under adrenalin, what ends up happening is the person wielding the weapon tends to focus with tunnel vision on the weapon (which may or may not be currently working) and is unable to split their focus to be on the attacker. I have been attacked by somebody wielding a knife. I was unarmed. I walked away, and so did the person who attacked me with it after they got out of the lock-up. Sure, I have scars, but I did not spend any time in jail for defending myself. Unless people have experience in combat under adrenalized situations, I dont really care how proficient they think they are with their weapon of choice; Adrenalin changes everything. Feel free to call me a fool for not even bringing a knife to a gun fight, but thats my story and Im sticking to it. Sinergy

thompsonx -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/6/2007 4:33:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl I find criminals of most sorts to be useless...by this, I mean people who are habitual repeat offenders, NOT someone who just got in trouble once or twice when they were young or over some weird misunderstanding. I'm talking drug dealers, crack whores, habitual thieves, etc. Are you referring to people like "scooter" Libby, a lawyer who used his position to block an investigation into the outing of CIA agents? Or people like Ollie North the international drug dealer? Or is your wrath only for low level drug dealers and poor women who cannot afford expensive drugs? People who are too lazy to work. Are you speaking of people like Jack Abramhoff who walks around Washington sucking peoples dicks and giving them money to ignore their oath of office? People who abuse goverment welfare benefits (using them is one thing...abusing is another.) Are you talking about the congress who vote themselves fat pay checks for sitting on their asses and fucking over their constituents? Pedophiles are pretty useless to me, as well, just because anything else they could do would never make up for the harm they cause. You realize that this also includes the kid who just turned 18 who has been poking his high school sweetheart who is 12 days younger than he is. Not all people have value, any more than all dogs have value (which is why we spay and neuter, because some things aren't worth reproducing). Some do, some don't.... Perhaps with some selective breeding we could create a "master race" Perhaps we should have euthanized Stephen Hawking he looked pretty useless when he was born...maybe we should neuter him.

thompsonx -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/6/2007 4:50:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx What sort of fool brings a knife to a gunfight? I have given this a lot of thought in my time here. I am trained for unarmed fighting, even against an armed assailant. I have studied a lot of weapons. Weapons do weird things like bounce off targets, vibrate out of one's hands, hit environmental objects, get dropped, stick in wounds, miss, misfire, get slippery covered with blood, etc. Under adrenalin, what ends up happening is the person wielding the weapon tends to focus with tunnel vision on the weapon (which may or may not be currently working) and is unable to split their focus to be on the attacker. I have been attacked by somebody wielding a knife. I was unarmed. I walked away, and so did the person who attacked me with it after they got out of the lock-up. Sure, I have scars, but I did not spend any time in jail for defending myself. Unless people have experience in combat under adrenalized situations, I dont really care how proficient they think they are with their weapon of choice; Adrenalin changes everything. Feel free to call me a fool for not even bringing a knife to a gun fight, but thats my story and Im sticking to it. Sinergy Sinergy: I am sorry I was unclear in my meaning. My thought was that any sane person with a knife in their hand when faced with the overwhelming advantage of a gun would stop their foolishness and drop the knife and holler kings X. I agree completely with your assessment of adrenalin enhanced situations and that circumstances can alter the situation. My point was that if one confronts a knife wielding assailant with a gun there is no reason for it to escalate to bloodshed. My post was in response to someone wishing to kill the intruder no mater what. I believe we all have an intrinsic rite to protect our lives but that does not give us the rite to punish the offender. That is why we have banded into societies and have created laws to govern ourselves. You and I both agree that once one has secured his or her own safety the need for further conflict is unnecessary. thompson

Sinergy -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/6/2007 4:58:13 PM)
Good points, thompsonx. I guess the thing I often hear from people is the need to escalate a conflict from... Person A: You looked at my girl, you touched my arm, you drank my beer, whatever. Person B: Did not, jackass. Person A: Who you calling jackass, shithead? Person B: Wanna fight? Person A: Only if you arent some chicken! Person B: I will punch your head (making fists) Person A: Yeah, well, me and my knife (brandishing knife) will trump your fists. Person B: Oh yeah? Well, I have my gun (pulls their Glock 9) Person A: I see your Glock 9 and I raise you my 3 friends with Uzis. Person B: I have WMDs Person A: I see your WMDs and I am sending in the marines. and so on. I spend a lot of time teaching students to de-escalate conflict. Pulling a weapon simply ups the ante leading to somebody eventually calling the bluff and somebody (or both) getting planted. As I pointed out, if somebody was going to kill me I would already be dead. If I am not dead, the person's intent is not to kill me (at least not then) and I dont want to escalate the conflict to deadly force until I am sure there is no way out of it. Sinergy

thompsonx -> RE: what makes someone "useless" (7/6/2007 5:06:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl And likewise bleeding heart liberals who feel the need to be overly empathetic and douse every thing they say in sugar are unappealing too. GeekyGirl: I am curious as to just which "bleeding heart liberal" you find unappealing. Is it the one who felt that women should be allowed to vote? Is it the one who felt slavery was a social wrong? Is it the one who felt that children should not work in mines? Is it the one who felt that education should be for everyone and not just the rich? Is it the one who felt that husbands should not beat their wives? My list is much longer but I think you may get my point. Whether you like it or not all of the freedoms you take for granted including your the one that allows you to be kinky came from a bleeding heart liberal" You may want to look up the "Comstock laws" to get an idea of what life would be like for you if it were not for a "bleeding heart liberal" thompson

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