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RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/5/2007 12:35:51 AM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dragone

I hate victims who respect their executioners.



I agree with this, in a sense, but I teach people to fight tooth and nail for their lives no matter what situation they are forced to deal with.

I have said it before, but anybody that is still here after some horror is not a victim, they are a survivor.

Cemetaries are filled with victims.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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Profile   Post #: 81
RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/5/2007 12:46:32 AM   
popeye1250


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Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Sinergy, do you teach them about weapons too?
Oh, and the all important "always *finish* your attacker when you get the upper hand on him."
That means you kill him.
If he's dead he can't possibly "recover" and attack you again.
They taught us that in the Navy way back when.
Too many victims make the misstake of thinking their attacker is "finished" if you knock them out or down on the ground.
And do you do any knife work?

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RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/5/2007 12:52:21 AM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Sinergy, do you teach them about weapons too?
Oh, and the all important "always *finish* your attacker when you get the upper hand on him."
That means you kill him.
If he's dead he can't possibly "recover" and attack you again.
They taught us that in the Navy way back when.
Too many victims make the misstake of thinking their attacker is "finished" if you knock them out or down on the ground.
And do you do any knife work?


I am not sure I understand the question.

The fight ends when the student can safely get to safety.  What state the person attacking them is in is not really my concern.  I would point out that fights are dynamic, and seldom (if ever) have One True Correct Real Answer.

I am the armed assailant attacking some of my students.  We do not teach them how to use a weapon apart from the ones which cannot be taken away from them. 

Sinergy



_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/5/2007 12:58:24 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Oh, ok.You just teach them to "get away" then.

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/5/2007 3:17:01 AM   
instynctive


Posts: 2726
Status: offline 		That's why I enjoyed studying the Chinese arts when I was younger.. we wer taught how to destroy an opponent.




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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/5/2007 8:39:17 AM   
dragone


Posts: 215
Joined: 5/29/2007
Status: offline 		Hi There, Thomas Dylan has a verse:

Do not go gentle into that good night
Old age should burn and rave at the close of day
Rage, Rage against the dying of the light

It's context is; to being struck down by death; but it applies to every situation where you are facing opposition, tryanny, threat, even in a death struggle, physically with an asailent or disease.

The idea of, the fight ends with you getting to safety is sound, but as popeye points out, the fight may not end there. It may just be stalled, to continue at a later date.

In most situations, a common guy, getting to safety is sufficent, and the encounter may actually be at an end. I've been there, a number of times. The best approach is to just be calm and get as far away from the confrontation and situation  as quickly as possible, avoid the conflict when ever possible, swallow the hurt pride and brusied ego...and run away if need be.

However, if it is unavoidable; cannot get to safety, then, destroy your opponent utterly, by any and all means at your disposal and do so in the shortest amount of time possible.

Years ago, I was told, any physical encounter, any fight, only should last two hits. You hit your opponent, and he hits the deck. Once down, destroy any chance for further attack or reprisals.

My comment is directed at having respect for the executioner, going gently like a lamb to your slaughter. ie; The jews, obeyed, made jusifications, excuses for those who were about killing them; and happily played their music,  La Paloma, as they walked to their death. What bothers me, is this, you are going to die anyway, chance of survival is nil, so why not strike at the snake that strikes at you. In most cases the nazi guards were outnumbered 500 to one; yet, there was no ...well, that's it.

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RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/5/2007 8:50:45 AM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Oh, ok.You just teach them to "get away" then.


In the state of California, one can defend themselves if they feel their life is in danger.

When the person is no longer attacking you, it is not legal to keep attacking them.

We teach to a knock out.  So the fight is over when

a)  The assailant runs away.
b)  The assailant lies down on the ground clutching their smashed testicles, crying for Mommy, and puking.
c)  The assailant lies on the ground unconscious after their face is smashed into hamburger by full-power kicks.

From the standpoint of emotional or spiritual energy, one of our concepts in a fight is "Dont back up, dont back down."  The student is never allowed to run away.  They have to stand their ground and use verbal (and/or physical) means to get the other person to leave.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/5/2007 10:01:21 AM   
instynctive


Posts: 2726
Status: offline 		Old wise saying:

"Only turn your back to a corpse."


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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/5/2007 11:25:34 AM   
dragone


Posts: 215
Joined: 5/29/2007
Status: offline 		In the state of Michigan, you are required to run away. If your home is invaded, you discover the thief, you are required to exit by the nearest venue, window, door, whatever, leaving the house to the thief. The state's resoning is: no material item is worth a life. In Michigan, the only person who is allowed, by law, to use deadly force to defend themselves, is a woman. If the thief, invades your premises, and runs away, you are not allowed by law to chase, pursue, nor use any force to apprehend the thief, nor pursue to recover your property. 

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/5/2007 3:30:34 PM   
velvetears


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dragone

In the state of Michigan, you are required to run away. If your home is invaded, you discover the thief, you are required to exit by the nearest venue, window, door, whatever, leaving the house to the thief. The state's resoning is: no material item is worth a life. In Michigan, the only person who is allowed, by law, to use deadly force to defend themselves, is a woman. If the thief, invades your premises, and runs away, you are not allowed by law to chase, pursue, nor use any force to apprehend the thief, nor pursue to recover your property. 


That's crazy! So when someone enters your home your suppossed to use mental telepathy to determine he's only there to rob you and not rape you , abduct your children, beat you to a pulp for fun, etc etc... Someone enters my home they get what the deserve!

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/5/2007 3:42:05 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dragone

In the state of Michigan, you are required to run away. If your home is invaded, you discover the thief, you are required to exit by the nearest venue, window, door, whatever, leaving the house to the thief. The state's resoning is: no material item is worth a life. In Michigan, the only person who is allowed, by law, to use deadly force to defend themselves, is a woman. If the thief, invades your premises, and runs away, you are not allowed by law to chase, pursue, nor use any force to apprehend the thief, nor pursue to recover your property. 


One can defend one's own (or somebody else's) life under the threat of imminent danger.  On the other hand, not allowing the person to leave or pursuing them, one then becomes the attacker.

The reason we teach what we do is more about the psychology of the assailant.

Men who assault women are cowards.  Standing up to one almost always gets the person to turn around and go away.  From a psychological perspective, women already know how to back down, and this gets used against them.  Telling a guy to go away and leave one alone will not turn a nice guy into an assailant.

Our graduates have almost never had to go to a full on fight.  Guy is told no, he goes somewhere else.  Guy is smacked one time in the face, he goes somewhere else.  My job is to overtrain so the student knows that if it goes to a fight, they can handle it and win.  This is embedded in her limbic system.

I wont fight to protect my stuff.  Want my car, its yours.  Want my money, its yours.  I can always get more stuff.

Want me to get in a car with you, the answer is no.  We are fighting right here rather than my being taken to someplace in the mountains where a shallow grave awaits me.

As far as the statistics.  A person entering a house is almost always a thief.  Home invasions are extremely rare, despite how frequently they are reported in the news.  Thieves almost never enter a house they know somebody is in.  Thieves are almost never armed.  It raises the charge from misdemeanor breaking and entering to felony assault with a deadly weapon.

Hear somebody in your house, simply say "Get out, now, I called the police."  The person will almost always leave. 

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to dragone)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/5/2007 3:59:42 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Oh, ok.You just teach them to "get away" then.


In the state of California, one can defend themselves if they feel their life is in danger.

When the person is no longer attacking you, it is not legal to keep attacking them.

We teach to a knock out.  So the fight is over when

a)  The assailant runs away.
b)  The assailant lies down on the ground clutching their smashed testicles, crying for Mommy, and puking.
c)  The assailant lies on the ground unconscious after their face is smashed into hamburger by full-power kicks.

From the standpoint of emotional or spiritual energy, one of our concepts in a fight is "Dont back up, dont back down."  The student is never allowed to run away.  They have to stand their ground and use verbal (and/or physical) means to get the other person to leave.

Sinergy


Sinergy, wow, glad I don't live in Calif then.
So if the guy attacks me, I whack him, he stops attacking me I have to stop defending myself?
So, under Calif law you have to give him another chance to attack you?
How many more times do you have to let him attack you?


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"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/5/2007 4:20:50 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Sinergy, wow, glad I don't live in Calif then.
So if the guy attacks me, I whack him, he stops attacking me I have to stop defending myself?
So, under Calif law you have to give him another chance to attack you?
How many more times do you have to let him attack you?



You are not understanding what I am saying, popeye

I help teach people to fight until the fight is over.

Statistically, the fight is most likely over when the person say No.  Second most common statistic is that the fight is over with one blow.

Guy running away from you is one definition of the fight being over.  Another one is the guy rolling around on the ground all damaged.  The student has to figure out when she can safely get away, and then safely get away.

I am not emotionally involved in whether you decide to pop a cap in somebodies ass for whatever argument you end up getting yourself in to.  I would point out that with that sort of attitude you will end up running into somebody crazier and better than you are.  That translates to a trip for you to the hospital or prison, or a one way trip to the morgue.

Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/5/2007 6:09:28 PM   
velvetears


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Joined: 6/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

As far as the statistics.  A person entering a house is almost always a thief.  Home invasions are extremely rare, despite how frequently they are reported in the news.  Thieves almost never enter a house they know somebody is in.  Thieves are almost never armed.  It raises the charge from misdemeanor breaking and entering to felony assault with a deadly weapon.

Hear somebody in your house, simply say "Get out, now, I called the police."  The person will almost always leave. 

Sinergy


Sorry but 4 "almosts" don't cut it for me. If the almost doesn't work in your particular situation you're either a rape victim or a statistic.  i would rather play 0 odds i don't end up dead or my family hurt or dead then think - well i'm almost certain he's only here to rob me, and is not armed and if i call out he will leave me be.



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RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/5/2007 6:13:24 PM   
SeeksOnlyOne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

As far as the statistics.  A person entering a house is almost always a thief.  Home invasions are extremely rare, despite how frequently they are reported in the news.  Thieves almost never enter a house they know somebody is in.  Thieves are almost never armed.  It raises the charge from misdemeanor breaking and entering to felony assault with a deadly weapon.

Hear somebody in your house, simply say "Get out, now, I called the police."  The person will almost always leave. 

Sinergy


Sorry but 4 "almosts" don't cut it for me. If the almost doesn't work in your particular situation you're either a rape victim or a statistic.  i would rather play 0 odds i don't end up dead or my family hurt or dead then think - well i'm almost certain he's only here to rob me, and is not armed and if i call out he will leave me be.




my aunt was brutally murdered, while sipping coffee at about 10 am.  2 16 year old punks didnt know she was home, broke in, and beat her to death......she was 4'11" tall and weighed 98 pounds.......they got enough money to get tattoos and some coke.....

ill shoot someone til the guns empty and worry about the consequences later......

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it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

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RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/5/2007 6:17:46 PM   
domiguy


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Status: offline 		If you kill someone who is unarmed who breaks into your home....Your family is probably going to miss you.

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/5/2007 7:37:59 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		If somebody is going to kill you.  They will walk up to you and kill you.  I dont care how effective you are at killing paper at 100 yards, or whether your weapon of choice is a Glock 9mm with hollowpoints.  Sitting, drinking coffee, person walks past, bang, your ticket is punched.

If somebody is not intending to kill me (at least at that moment), I personally prefer to play with the odds.  Sure, 0.01% of the time an intruder is armed coming in to my house to rape or kill you.  The other 99.99% of the time, they are a single, unarmed intruder who does not want any trouble.

Keeping the bedroom door closed and yelling "Im here, Im armed, I called the police, get out" with the 911 operator hearing from the phone you dialed 911 on and set next to you, is so dramatically more likely to solve the problem than skulking out of your bedroom and trying to pop a cap in his/her ass.

Besides which, if you dont actually kill the person, they sue your homeowners insurance for medical costs.

Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/5/2007 7:53:22 PM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

If you kill someone who is unarmed who breaks into your home....Your family is probably going to miss you.


NRA-ILA :: Current Legislation - State

not the way i interpret georgia laws.....but ill take the chance

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it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/6/2007 7:34:08 AM   
TankII7871


Posts: 174
Joined: 4/22/2005
Status: offline 		Its funny im in basicly the same field as Termyn8or.  I used to have a guy working for me and i said all the time how he was useless but he showed up for work everyday and could be counted on to do what he was told once he was told about 20 times.  Now in this business you spend alot of time driving from job site to job site and most of my work is in beach town so you are always seeing pretty women.  Of course things are always said  about the womens bodies and what one would like to do.  Well one day me and useless were at my shop i was working on something outside when useless said "Boss you should see the body on this girl she has great tits and ass  man i would love to bend her over and have a party.  I rasied my head up and looked then smacked useless in the back of the head very hard telling him that that girl was my daughter.  Seems useless wasnt so useless after all he made me look at women in a whole new light.  Do i still look at women and have those thoughts well yes im male and still alive.  Do i voice thoughts about them well No  i wont talk about anyone else's daughter in a way i would whip somes ass over if they were talking about my daughter.  Just because you dont see a reason from someone to be alive doesn't mean there isnt something you can learn from them be it what to do or what not to do .  Now as far as putting crack heads down  i dont think they all should be put down just the one thats dating my daughter  


just a Country Boy with a little learnin

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: what makes someone "useless" - 7/6/2007 8:13:24 AM   
TankII7871


Posts: 174
Joined: 4/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

If you kill someone who is unarmed who breaks into your home....Your family is probably going to miss you.


well I live in the south and i carry a a gun have all the paper work and everything and its simple here if someone breaks into my house i have the legal right to send them back trough the door window what ever they used to get in with a nice bullet in them.  Now if you don't believe that you can always say what ever you want.  But the simple fact is that said person broke in and even if they didn't have anything in their hands they still had hands.  Now some people live where they cant defend them selfs  to those people all i can say is Move. 

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Profile   Post #: 100
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