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Owner59 -> RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? (7/5/2007 10:12:59 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SubinMaine
quote:
ORIGINAL: slaveluci
quote:
ORIGINAL: SubinMaine
The altercation was viewed as a "racial" hate crime because the two participants were of different races and racial slurs were exchanged
And because the African-American fellow is the one who was the "victim" of the "hateful" words. Somehow I doubt if the tables were turned and the only "racial slurs" flying were toward the Caucasian fellow, things would have been much different and it wouldn't have been considered a "hate crime."............luci
you are incorrect, luci...the other gentleman threw the first "racial slur" by telling my friend he was going to "shoot his white ass."
You see, BOTH parties used racial slurs (as i stated in my post), BOTH should have been held accountable if that's the way the law was written, however that's NOT how it was handled.
See why it irritates me? It's reverse discrimination...no one was justified in tossing the names around, but both were guilty of it...why was my friend singled out?
And i don't believe i stated whether one was African American or not....
*edited to add*
Growing up we used a sing-song phrase...remember? "Sticks and stones...."
Also i feel my point is being missed after Luci's response....my point is that Race should be left out of the "Crime Time"...i will concede that exceptions should be made (example, White Supremacists, Neo-Nazi's, Nation of Islam and any other racially biased group that encourages the hate of one for the glory of the other)....dictating to a person what they can and can't say when it's a matter of opinion and not public safety (can't yell fire in a crowded theater = public safety issue) is, in my opinion, oppressing the right to freedom of speech.
mind you, the racial slur that my friend used was just as "mild" as the one used towards him, the only reason the authorities let the slur be admissable in court is due to the fact that it was voiced DURING the altercation and not before or after.
Some things about this story seem bogus.
You say ,"my friend did what *ANYONE*, would have done, no matter their race and defended himself...the problem was, he got the better of this gentleman and, during the altercation, used a racial slur."
In other words,your brain-trust of a friend ,beat a guy up..., and used racial slurs while he beat him.I like your use of the phrase," he prevailed in the altercation". I think committed an assault, would be more honest.
Stupid people, who do stupid things,get into trouble(hopefully).When I heard this all started over sports teams ,I knew we were not dealing with smart people here,your friend or the other guy.My dad used to tell my brothers and I, never argue with a stupid person,someone watching might not be able to tell who`s who(much less law enforcement).I`ve lost count of all the times I just turned my back on a bully,or dolt,or a stupid person trying to start something.
I`m not a cop or a lawyer,but after teaching karate for twenty years, questions often come up about what`s legal and not,when confronted in the real world.
The law says(in most states),that when you`re confronted or menaced,you have to retreat(unless you`re in your home).No hitting the guy,or knocking him down,like Chuck Norris.There are a lot of confused folks,who think that you can hit someone , when they spit in your face, push you in a bar or parking lot,or call your girlfriend a whore,like in the movies.Not so,you can only use violence legally,if there`s no other way around it.You can`t just think a guy`s got a gun,to beat him up,even if you think, "it`s what "*ANYONE*" would do."
Believe me,if you get into a full-out fight w/ someone,no matter who`s right,the cops are going to scrutinize you,back and forth.You had better be a true victim,otherwise you`re in trouble.
I tell my students to never use ,or even mention they train in martial arts.Just back away and move on.Don`t answer back,or stand off to fight or bump chests,etc.Unless you`re looking for trouble,and believe me,if you want trouble,there`s plenty to be had,knock yourself out.(pun intended)
Your friend was dumb enough to get sucked into trash talk about sports teams?!? w/ another bone head,dumb enough to use racial slurs ,while hitting the guy,and dumb enough to get caught.WTF was he thinking?"hey..,the cops will see it my way, when I tell`m I thought the guy was strapped.After all,"anyone" would see it that way,right?". "Oh,and the racial slurs?(he-he),he said "white ass",so thought it was ok to call him a "%$#@*% ",while I beat on him.
lol,give me a break.I don`t think your buddy was a victim of this law,but rather a victim of being an idiot.
This law was put in place for a reason.When you burn a Cross,paint nazi symbols on a Temple,lynch someone,beat up/kill a gay guy,deface a Mosque ,you oppress whole groups of people.Hate is huge in this country,only followed by stupidity.Mixed,they can be lethal. The folks opposing these laws offer no alternative,or even acknowledge that there`s a problem.So they lash out at those awful liberals,play the victim,and invent conspiracy theories about the ACLU,or other groups they don`t understand.Cry me a river,lol.
The ACLU,is about following the Constitution,the whole Constitution.They defend,help enforce,and push for what it says,every part and phrase.The Constitution, is the most liberal document written, in three thousand years.The American Civil Liberties Union doesn`t have a agenda,other than following the Constitution.I wish more people would have an allegiance to the Constitution,rather then to the GOP.That stands for "Good`ol Party",or the republicans.
Some advice....
When called names,confronted,spit on,belittled or mocked, walk in the other direction. I know that doesn`t seem fair or logical,to bad.
Peace
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