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RE: Smokers ned not apply - 7/4/2007 1:42:15 AM   
becca333


Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline 		As an asthma sufferer, I have to say I've never been bothered by the fact that I'm now able to breathe easily in more places.  But I do appreciate the concerns about what might be next - kids and junk food look like being the targets here (that is, stopping kids eating junk food, not getting rid of both.)  And there seem to be so many smokers who'd like to quit - maybe the latest step (in Australia pubs are now smoke-free, a huge event for us) will give the push they need.

But, if you're a sane adult, and you don't smoke in public, and you don't have UM's in the house or car, then go for it.  Everyone's entitled to a few bad habits, so long as they understand and accept the risk.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Smokers ned not apply - 7/4/2007 2:23:55 AM   
MasterLDesade


Posts: 67
Joined: 2/22/2007
Status: offline 		Hack Hack ...Arrghhhhhhh...Pootoei.......Snivel ......Cough...Cough....I want ya job ....Farrrrrrrt......Damb my Prolapsed Anus just hit the floor Bugger.....any one got a glove ? Itch Itch ........Scratch........Mmm crabs are active bloody livestock.........Health ???? ....Fine shape i am , see the stain on my pants  ? means my Brewer's Droop is Fine leaking like a faucet ,
Eyesight ? See your card in the mirror w.t.f  i parked my truck in the Invalid Parking Space on top of that motorcyle isn't that good enough for you .
ok all good
Oh you are going to contact me re employment .
By the way do you have a Dental Plan .
 
                                     Yours In Health
                                                                MasterLDeSade
 

(in reply to maybemaybenot)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Smokers ned not apply - 7/4/2007 2:26:52 AM   
becca333


Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline 		Sounds like the perfect employee.

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Smokers ned not apply - 7/4/2007 2:31:20 AM   
possom


Posts: 46
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		I am so tired of the Government deciding what is best for us.

We are people, we are able to make our own choices.

Stop trying to save us from ourselves!!

Whether you are a smoker or not, each to their own

(in reply to MasterLDesade)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Smokers ned not apply - 7/4/2007 3:03:23 AM   
MissIsis


Posts: 473
Joined: 1/1/2005
Status: offline 		I too, am tired of the government trying to tell us what to do.  Contrary to a handfull of some people's belief, it is up to each of us to make our own choices in life.  It should never be the job of the government to do so.   I could maybe see, in the case of any of us causing harm to another.  And yes, I know it is argued that smoking causes secondhand health issues.  That may be true, but people can stay out of restaurants & businesses that allow smoking.   I will always feel the government overstepped its bounds on this one.  Non-smokers do not have to choose to work for employees that allow smoking. 

Many argue about the health issues of the smokers themselves being passed onto the public.  That could easily be fixed. Cigarettes are already taxed way too much.  And since no one minds adding more rules & regulations, why not use the cigarette tax money to insure smokers who can't seem to afford health care insurance.  Or require a smoking license, where the money spent on the license goes into a similiar insurance pool, or health care insurance is required before getting the license.  That might even be a good way to keep smoking from our young people. 

And what about all the cars, buses, trucks, ect, running around on the street.  Who is worried about all of us breathing the toxins caused by vehicles?   I was looking at a diesel truck the other day & saw all his smoke coming out of the pipe on top. 
It would be very easy to attach a filter of some sort to the top of that pipe, same with trains. 

How about spending all the money being spent to take away our rights (ie: smoking & others) & use it to come up with & invest in better alternative transportation.  My state has a horrible pool or car park & ride areas set aside.   How about lobbying businesses to set up ways their employees can take advantage of alternative transportation?  Grocery stores are notorious about setting up their businesses in a way that, while convenient for them & customers, promote individual employees driving to work.  The one I work in has over 200 employees.  If each works 5 days, 2 trips a day, at an average of 20-45 minutes a trip, what kind of pollution/toxins are going into the air, that non-smokers are complaining about???

We really have some screwed up priorities sometimes. 

(in reply to possom)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Smokers ned not apply - 7/4/2007 4:19:35 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

What I view as hypocrisy is that our government is on the one hand berating us for smoking and costing the health system a fortune........ whilst on the other hand its relying on the equivalent of eight dollars per packet sold in taxes to provide health services.....

E


I dont smoke.  Why the hell should I pay my taxes to support the medical outcome of somebody else's addiction?

Cant afford the cost, quit the habit.

Can afford the topic, light up.

Sinergy

p.s.  On a related note, does the Government still subsidize tobacco farmers?


This one's been answered by subsequent posts, but I'll throw one in too.

Every day in the UK, someone is seriously injured on our roads. The roads are dangerous, driving is dangerous, crossing the road is dangerous.

Why should I have to pay a penny towards the medical outcomes? These people went driving of their own volition and the rest crossed the road of their own volition. Its not my fault they get mangled and require expensive treatments so why should I pay?

The answer is, that we live in our societies for mutual benefit and protection and whether or not something is dangerous to an individual is irrelevant to the duty shared by all to provide benefit and protection should they fall foul of fate. As long as something is legal - ie mutually agreed to be acceptable by our society, then thats all the qualification that is required.

Consider too, that in the UK a one pack a day smoker who smokes for 40 years will have contributed the equivalent of 117,000 dollars in additional taxes (at today's value) - over and above what he has paid in income tax etc for his needs in respect of other health treatment requirements. I would suggest that such a sum should be more than sufficient to provide such a person with any treatment they might need in respect of health problems they experience as a direct result of smoking.

And lastly, consider that something like 25% of the UK adult population smoke. Thats something like 10 million people. If we said that on average they each smoke one pack a day, thats the equivalent of 80 million dollars revenue in tax per day or 29,200 million per annum. Say then, we stopped all smoking - that money has to come from somewhere. Do the non smokers feel so passionate about it that theyre willing to pay to make up the revenues I wonder?

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Smokers ned not apply - 7/4/2007 4:46:23 AM   
SubinMaine


Posts: 1888
Joined: 1/7/2006
Status: offline 		i think the whole matter just comes down to it NOT being illegal to smoke. 

i smoke, not proud of it, want to quit and am trying to quit...i do not, however (like some have indicated) smoke around non-smokers at ALL.  i actually ask first if it would bother someone.  i do not smoke at work, i didn't even smoke on work grounds, i have no issue with the ban on smoking in public places (restaurants, bars, etc.)..not every smoker is a total ass with no regard for the non-smokers present

i really see no one arguing the health risk of smoking, we all know it's bad for us in the long run, but then, so is fast food, so is lack of exercise, so is stress and so on...but these things are not illegal.  Saying it's a "slow suicide" and we have laws against "suicide" is an irrelevant and invalid argument..not every smoker dies from smoking related illnesses.  A lot of them do, absolutely, but not everyone.  There's a lot of deaths attributed to stress, but you don't see the government (nor employers) giving more time off from stressful jobs via vacations and personal days...actually, they are cutting back on that perk.

If someone participates in a legal activity, on their own time, it's their right to do so.  If the government is going to support those employers that want to discriminate against a smoker then they have to be ready to suffer the consequences of a HUGE influx of unemployable citizens.  This is going to translate into a ton of disability claims.  If being a drug (illegal) addict qualifies one for disability then smoking will soon follow, especially if these people cannot obtain employment.

my personal thought (and smokers may not like me for this one) is that the government should just make smoking illegal.  If it's going to be treated by the social/professional/executive sector as such, it makes sense to me that this is how they should handle the issue *shrug*


_____________________________

That which yields is not always weak...

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Smokers ned not apply - 7/4/2007 5:20:24 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

We are talking about two seperate topics....Cigs are legal...They have been around forever...Are they good for you?...NO.

I am an employer I have two prospects I might hire they are both equally suited for the job...One smokes the other does not....I'm hiring the non-smoker.

Why would I hire the person who smokes?


There are a lot of things that aren't good for you, junk food and traffic fumes to mention a couple.

If I was an employer would I hire you? No. I don't have the time for puritans, their rigid thinking is just not conducive to my line of work.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Smokers ned not apply - 7/4/2007 5:25:33 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: becca333

As an asthma sufferer, I have to say I've never been bothered by the fact that I'm now able to breathe easily in more places.  But I do appreciate the concerns about what might be next - kids and junk food look like being the targets here (that is, stopping kids eating junk food, not getting rid of both.)  And there seem to be so many smokers who'd like to quit - maybe the latest step (in Australia pubs are now smoke-free, a huge event for us) will give the push they need.

But, if you're a sane adult, and you don't smoke in public, and you don't have UM's in the house or car, then go for it.  Everyone's entitled to a few bad habits, so long as they understand and accept the risk.



Traffic fumes are a far greater concern to asthma sufferers than someone smoking in a bar a block away that you will never go into or a smoker who doesn't smoke in the same room as you. This whole debate is irrational and based on puritan emotions than rational thinking.

While smoking declines in the west, addiction to prescription drugs has gone up so people who don't smoke are using other drugs but puritans will say that is a whole other issue, it isn't but it is convenient for them to insist it is.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to becca333)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Smokers ned not apply - 7/4/2007 5:36:32 AM   
maybemaybenot


Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

We are talking about two seperate topics....Cigs are legal...They have been around forever...Are they good for you?...NO.

I am an employer I have two prospects I might hire they are both equally suited for the job...One smokes the other does not....I'm hiring the non-smoker.

Why would I hire the person who smokes?


I don't know about anyone else, but it has never been part of the application process, nor interviews, to be asked if I smoke or not.

For the sake of arguement, let's say you asked me DG, and I said I am a smoker, with no health issues. Your second equally suited candidate was a morbidly obese diabetic who had had 2 bypass surgeries ? Who are you gong to pick ?

Which leads to the question, are the smoking Nazi's also going to weed out other undesirables because of their health risks ? Will we soon be filling out medical questionaires with family history, a full physical and medical background check? Will employers be hiring based on risk factors for increased health problems ?

                                  mbmbn

_____________________________

Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

(in reply to domiguy)
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RE: Smokers ned not apply - 7/4/2007 5:40:54 AM   
SubinMaine


Posts: 1888
Joined: 1/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

We are talking about two seperate topics....Cigs are legal...They have been around forever...Are they good for you?...NO.

I am an employer I have two prospects I might hire they are both equally suited for the job...One smokes the other does not....I'm hiring the non-smoker.

Why would I hire the person who smokes?


I don't know about anyone else, but it has never been part of the application process, nor interviews, to be asked if I smoke or not.

For the sake of arguement, let's say you asked me DG, and I said I am a smoker, with no health issues. Your second equally suited candidate was a morbidly obese diabetic who had had 2 bypass surgeries ? Who are you gong to pick ?

Which leads to the question, are the smoking Nazi's also going to weed out other undesirables because of their health risks ? Will we soon be filling out medical questionaires with family history, a full physical and medical background check? Will employers be hiring based on risk factors for increased health problems ?

                                 mbmbn


As much as i hate to acknowledge this, it's my personal opinion that the above is exactly where this is heading.  It's absolutely terrifying to think that one must be in perfect health, with a family history of perfect health to be considered "qualified" to hold a job.


_____________________________

That which yields is not always weak...

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Smokers ned not apply - 7/4/2007 5:51:26 AM   
maybemaybenot


Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline 		I agree, we are certainly headed in that direction. Let's see how the " pioneers" in health screening for job status feel when they are weeded out cuz Grandaddy had colon cancer and they are just a bit too risky to be employed.

                               mbmbn

_____________________________

Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

(in reply to SubinMaine)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Smokers ned not apply - 7/4/2007 6:03:04 AM   
kittensmailbox


Posts: 744
Joined: 1/7/2005
From: Youngstown, Ohio
Status: offline 		So, what is so wrong with having higher standards...

_____________________________

~softly smiles

~lowers her eyes in respect~

~kitten

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Smokers ned not apply - 7/4/2007 6:07:43 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

So, what is so wrong with having higher standards...


Nothing. It's the puritanical hypocrisy that wrankles.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Smokers ned not apply - 7/4/2007 6:16:00 AM   
maybemaybenot


Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

So, what is so wrong with having higher standards...


Not a thing, kitten. I don't see this as having to do with any type of higher standard. If discriminating based on something that has nothing to do with job capabilities is something you support:

An observation: In your picture it *appears* your BMI is on the mid- upper levels. Think carefully, because folks with higher BMIs are next on the chopping block.

                                         mbmbn

_____________________________

Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

(in reply to kittensmailbox)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Smokers ned not apply - 7/4/2007 6:20:19 AM   
SubinMaine


Posts: 1888
Joined: 1/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

So, what is so wrong with having higher standards...


Not a thing, kitten. I don't see this as having to do with any type of higher standard. If discriminating based on something that has nothing to do with job capabilities is something you support:

An observation: In your picture it *appears* your BMI is on the mid- upper levels. Think carefully, because folks with higher BMIs are next on the chopping block.

                                        mbmbn


*raises hand* and *my* BMI is in the upper levels as well...so i'm faced with a double whammy *smile*

Seriously, standards are fine, but when they identify with, and are the definition of, discrimination, they cease to be "fine".

Just my thoughts.


_____________________________

That which yields is not always weak...

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RE: Smokers ned not apply - 7/4/2007 6:28:01 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Well, now all you cigarette smokers know a little about what it's like to be oppressed for smoking cannabis.


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to SubinMaine)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Smokers ned not apply - 7/4/2007 6:31:28 AM   
SubinMaine


Posts: 1888
Joined: 1/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Well, now all you cigarette smokers know a little about what it's like to be oppressed for smoking cannabis.



True....and just for the record, i think cannabis should be legalized, personal opinion even though i don't partake in that particular activity.

But the fact remains that smoking cannabis is illegal and smoking cigarettes isn't, hence my thoughts that if it's going to be treated like an illegal activity then it should be MADE an illegal activity


_____________________________

That which yields is not always weak...

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Smokers ned not apply - 7/4/2007 6:35:45 AM   
instynctive


Posts: 2726
Status: offline 		It really does sound like the government feels we are unable to make our own decisions, therefore must dictate what we do, how we eat, and even how we live.

Looking at available jobs around here... hrmmm... Literally averages $8 an hour, so that puts me.. well, not able to afford a house, not able to afford a pack of smokes, or a car or insurance for said car, barely afford food and heat.. never mind other luxuries like a telephone or cable TV.

I've decided the government is detrimental to my health.  Between stressing over the ever changing tax laws (and being taxed on everything for that matter), causing my one guilty pleasure in life (enjoying a cigarette) to become too expensive, making such riduculous legislation to bend over backwards to treat everyone but me "more equally", not to mention this generation's little version of Vietnam going on with no end in site...  "Impeachment.. it's not just for blow jobs..."

Our Founding Father are probably rolling in their graves right now.  Let's go dig up Washington, Franklin, Jefferson, Revere and all the rest of them, and let's see what happens...  :-)

Wow.. I've truly rambled.  I need coffee..

I guess my whole point, if I'd been able to keep my thought train from being derailed, is the government seems to be attempting to "purify" the citizens.. starting with no smoking.  Soon the government will have made the US a Master Race and will probably roll tanks through France and Poland as well.

Sig Heil, Fuhrer Bush!



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(in reply to SubinMaine)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Smokers ned not apply - 7/4/2007 6:36:43 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SubinMaine

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Well, now all you cigarette smokers know a little about what it's like to be oppressed for smoking cannabis.



True....and just for the record, i think cannabis should be legalized, personal opinion even though i don't partake in that particular activity.

But the fact remains that smoking cannabis is illegal and smoking cigarettes isn't, hence my thoughts that if it's going to be treated like an illegal activity then it should be MADE an illegal activity



I suspect that day will come, just as soon as those inclined to do so feel they have the numbers to pass legislation.



_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to SubinMaine)
Profile   Post #: 60
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