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RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 10:07:09 AM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline 		mistoferin, thanks for the explaination.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 241
RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 10:10:29 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		You're welcome.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to daddysprop247)
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RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 10:54:46 AM   
HalloweenWhite


Posts: 1028
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline 		Fair enough. But......the point I was making was that it's not something I would consider, I don't however judge what goes on in -other people's- relationship, hence the "but to each there own" comment.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 243
RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 11:29:41 AM   
MellowSir


Posts: 260
Joined: 4/17/2007
Status: offline 		Sure, just go to any battered women's shelter and they'll tell you how much they enjoyed getting beat up

(in reply to daddysprop247)
Profile   Post #: 244
RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 11:33:51 AM   
PeggyO


Posts: 129
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MellowSir

Sure, just go to any battered women's shelter and they'll tell you how much they enjoyed getting beat up


Hello,

I'm sorry - I guess I must be confused.  You aren't *really* trying to equate consensual SM with domestic violence are you?

Take care,

Peggy

(in reply to MellowSir)
Profile   Post #: 245
RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 11:39:23 AM   
PeggyO


Posts: 129
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

just because i don't share your ideal of being a human punching bag doesn't mean i'm narrow-minded. i'm loved and cherished not getting the crap kicked out of me for pleasure by my Daddy.



Hello,

For me, being loved and cherished including my partner doing things to me that I enjoy.  One of the things I enjoy happens to be having the crap kicked out of me.  If my partner didn't want to play at that level with me, I probably wouldn't feel loved and cherished.

I really think you need to consider the concept that your "loved and cherished" definition is not the same as it is for other folks - and that's ok.  However for you to basically say that one can't be loved and cherished if one gets the crap kicked out of them is unfair to people who express affection differently than you do.  You are welcome to your own reality, but leave mine to me.

Take care,

Peggy

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)
Profile   Post #: 246
RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 11:50:14 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeggyO

quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

just because i don't share your ideal of being a human punching bag doesn't mean i'm narrow-minded. i'm loved and cherished not getting the crap kicked out of me for pleasure by my Daddy.



Hello,

For me, being loved and cherished including my partner doing things to me that I enjoy.  One of the things I enjoy happens to be having the crap kicked out of me.  If my partner didn't want to play at that level with me, I probably wouldn't feel loved and cherished.

I really think you need to consider the concept that your "loved and cherished" definition is not the same as it is for other folks - and that's ok.  However for you to basically say that one can't be loved and cherished if one gets the crap kicked out of them is unfair to people who express affection differently than you do.  You are welcome to your own reality, but leave mine to me.

Take care,

Peggy


Ditto

I remember the first week that I was my Lord's slave and we had sex that did not include any pain.  I cried and I was worried that he didn't love me and that he didn't want me.  Inflicting and recieving pain is one way we show affection to each other.

Knight's Kyra 

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to PeggyO)
Profile   Post #: 247
RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 11:52:45 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeggyO

quote:

ORIGINAL: MellowSir

Sure, just go to any battered women's shelter and they'll tell you how much they enjoyed getting beat up


Hello,

I'm sorry - I guess I must be confused.  You aren't *really* trying to equate consensual SM with domestic violence are you?

Take care,

Peggy


Why not? He already tried to equate it with child abuse.

(in reply to PeggyO)
Profile   Post #: 248
RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 11:54:48 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		I believe that he was responding to daddysprop's statement that she is punched and kicked out of anger and as a means of discipline and punishment. I believe it is not unreasonable to connect such a statement with domestic violence.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 249
RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 12:01:29 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		i would be interested to know, from those who posted that they like and engage in this kind of impact play, if they had any similar experiences as children (being beaten up with fists and kicks) or were they never abused physically as children. i ask this because as a child i was physically abused my an older bully brother from the time i can remember and he would also force me to fight (bare fisted), kneeling on a mattress in the hallway of our apt building with another girl, the guys watching would place bets on who would win (first to cry was the looser).  i was always threatened if i lost he would beat the crap out of me.  He would beat me up weekly to the point i sometimes had to literally crawl back to my room and drag myself up onto my bed. i would be covered in bruises and the anger and rage i felt at not being able to have any control was hard to deal with. 

i try not to judge anyones kink, and i would never comment if i ever witnessed something that squicked me, but just the thought of witnessing this kind of play can literally make my heart race and feel anxious.  It's very difficult to be non judgmental of something, when you experienced the same thing, but in a brutal and abusive manner.  i personally know people who engage in this kind of play, they are loving and as bonded as anyone i have ever seen together.  i know it's not abuse but i still cannot bear to witness it, nevermind ever being someones punching bag, consentually. 

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to PeggyO)
Profile   Post #: 250
RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 12:04:19 PM   
MellowSir


Posts: 260
Joined: 4/17/2007
Status: offline 		I was wondering how the sub/slave knows for sure that their dom does it out of love and not anger, I'm sure that in the women's shelters many would say that they stayed because they were sure that their partner "loved" them.....and no, I don't equate every situation with domestic violence, I do know that when the vanilla world sees such things(and hardcore is mostly what they see), that it is what gives bdsm a bad rep.....for every violent dominant there is a gentle one.....


(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 251
RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 12:09:58 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

i would be interested to know, from those who posted that they like and engage in this kind of impact play, if they had any similar experiences as children (being beaten up with fists and kicks) or were they never abused physically as children.


I was not abused as a child and before meeting my Lord, I had not been punched outiside of a dojo and I had never been kicked (unless you count a horse).  I was threatened once by a neighborhood bully that she was going to hit me with a stick.  I punched her in the nose, bloodied it and ran home crying. 

As a teenager, I was raped and to watch or experience that type of scene I think would put me in a bad head space.  I am not able to communicate "no" in anyway, even if it is playful, without some serious emotional backlash if the action doesn't stop.  That makes resistence play somewhat tricky for me, but I know that many others enjoy it and I am glad that they have a way to express their kink and find pleasure.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 252
RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 12:15:09 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears
i would be interested to know, from those who posted that they like and engage in this kind of impact play, if they had any similar experiences as children (being beaten up with fists and kicks) or were they never abused physically as children.


I was never physically abused as a child. My father taught every one of us kids how to box, starting about the same time we learned to walk. We were never pitted against each other. We were also taught the significant responsibility that goes along with such a skill. Out of the 4 of us I am the only one who pursued it at a higher level.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 253
RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 12:59:51 PM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MellowSir

I was wondering how the sub/slave knows for sure that their dom does it out of love and not anger, I'm sure that in the women's shelters many would say that they stayed because they were sure that their partner "loved" them.....and no, I don't equate every situation with domestic violence, I do know that when the vanilla world sees such things(and hardcore is mostly what they see), that it is what gives bdsm a bad rep.....for every violent dominant there is a gentle one.....





Ummm. Because he talks about it, because its pretty obvious when someone you live with is angry. I have lived with this man for almost 8 years. I know when he is angry vs being sadistic because it turns him on and gets him hard. It is how he is wired.

< Message edited by BeingChewsie -- 7/6/2007 1:33:35 PM >

_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to MellowSir)
Profile   Post #: 254
RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 1:09:55 PM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

i would be interested to know, from those who posted that they like and engage in this kind of impact play, if they had any similar experiences as children (being beaten up with fists and kicks) or were they never abused physically as children. i ask this because as a child i was physically abused my an older bully brother from the time i can remember and he would also force me to fight (bare fisted), kneeling on a mattress in the hallway of our apt building with another girl, the guys watching would place bets on who would win (first to cry was the looser).  i was always threatened if i lost he would beat the crap out of me.  He would beat me up weekly to the point i sometimes had to literally crawl back to my room and drag myself up onto my bed. i would be covered in bruises and the anger and rage i felt at not being able to have any control was hard to deal with. 

i try not to judge anyones kink, and i would never comment if i ever witnessed something that squicked me, but just the thought of witnessing this kind of play can literally make my heart race and feel anxious.  It's very difficult to be non judgmental of something, when you experienced the same thing, but in a brutal and abusive manner.  i personally know people who engage in this kind of play, they are loving and as bonded as anyone i have ever seen together.  i know it's not abuse but i still cannot bear to witness it, nevermind ever being someones punching bag, consentually. 



i was never beaten in an abusive way as a child. i received a handful of "whoopin's"...a few lashes with a belt or more often the switch (a skinny branch from a tree), for bad behavior, but that's about it. nothing even remotely resembling the beatings i receive from my Master now.

velvetears, i am saddened to hear of what you endured as a child, and it helps me to better understand your perspective on this subject. tho perhaps there are those out there with similar backgrounds, who are able to engage in the same activities now (punching and kicking) in a positive and healthy way because the motivations and intentions are different, and who knows, it may even be therapeutic.

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 255
RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 1:15:15 PM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MellowSir

I was wondering how the sub/slave knows for sure that their dom does it out of love and not anger, I'm sure that in the women's shelters many would say that they stayed because they were sure that their partner "loved" them.....and no, I don't equate every situation with domestic violence, I do know that when the vanilla world sees such things(and hardcore is mostly what they see), that it is what gives bdsm a bad rep.....for every violent dominant there is a gentle one.....




i'd like to approach this from perhaps a different perspective than most: love and anger are not mutually exclusive. actions done out of love and actions done out of anger can be one and the same. for instance, if my Master beats me as punishment, there may be some anger and/or frustration there, mingled in with his disappointment in me for my poor behavior or mistake. beating me serves as a release for his anger as much as it is a retribution for me. however at the same time the only reason he is punishing me at all is because of his love for me, and the fact that he cares so much. so during a beating like this i will simultaneously feel his anger and his love, because it is all intermingled and part of what makes our dynamic so special.

(in reply to MellowSir)
Profile   Post #: 256
RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 2:04:55 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

i would be interested to know, from those who posted that they like and engage in this kind of impact play, if they had any similar experiences as children (being beaten up with fists and kicks) or were they never abused physically as children. i ask this because as a child i was physically abused my an older bully brother from the time i can remember and he would also force me to fight (bare fisted), kneeling on a mattress in the hallway of our apt building with another girl, the guys watching would place bets on who would win (first to cry was the looser).  i was always threatened if i lost he would beat the crap out of me.  He would beat me up weekly to the point i sometimes had to literally crawl back to my room and drag myself up onto my bed. i would be covered in bruises and the anger and rage i felt at not being able to have any control was hard to deal with. 

i try not to judge anyones kink, and i would never comment if i ever witnessed something that squicked me, but just the thought of witnessing this kind of play can literally make my heart race and feel anxious.  It's very difficult to be non judgmental of something, when you experienced the same thing, but in a brutal and abusive manner.  i personally know people who engage in this kind of play, they are loving and as bonded as anyone i have ever seen together.  i know it's not abuse but i still cannot bear to witness it, nevermind ever being someones punching bag, consentually. 

I was not abused as a child, however; I have a really bad temper and would often find myself on the receiving and giving end of a good fist fight. Quite honestly, when I first met my late husband ( I was almost 19 at the time ), I was headed in one of two directions. Either prison, or death...that's how bad my temper and my attitude were at that time. Engaging in this kind of activity with him helped alot towards me learning HOW to CONTROL the violent temper that to this day, I still do have.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 257
RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 2:08:20 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MellowSir

I was wondering how the sub/slave knows for sure that their dom does it out of love and not anger, I'm sure that in the women's shelters many would say that they stayed because they were sure that their partner "loved" them.....and no, I don't equate every situation with domestic violence, I do know that when the vanilla world sees such things(and hardcore is mostly what they see), that it is what gives bdsm a bad rep.....for every violent dominant there is a gentle one.....



You know, you have this really annoying habit of insisting that anything YOU don't agree with or participate in HAS to be awful, bad, or abusive. For the love of God...lighten up a bit and broaden your knowledge base of other people.

I know for a fact that he loved me; even when we were engaged in a brutal, drop-down-drag-out fist-feet-fight. Sometimes, it is only through the love we feel for each other that we can allow ourselves to do things that we would other wise find abhorrent.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


(in reply to MellowSir)
Profile   Post #: 258
RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 2:28:51 PM   
Faramir


Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline 		I don't do punching or deep impact sort of stuff as part of my erotic interaction with my little girl, and with previous partners, it hasn't been a turn on.  Face-slapping has enormous erotic content for me, along with crushing genitals/breasts with my hands, but punching isn't part of my symbology in BDSM .  I've been prety ferociosu on this subject not because it's where I am, but because I'm truly befuddled by crazy double standard all the squipmunks, like the OP, evince.

I have punched though before in a D/s sense.  I've had a couple partners for whom being struck when they were not in a submissive space, physicaly and psychically put them there.  Being popped in the gut and folding up onto the deck gasping, completely readjusted their headspace.  In particular I am thinking of a partner who was angry at me over a comment I had made that day, and was just a cunt all night long.  At the end of the evening, after we said goodbye to our guests, she turned to me and made another sarcastic comment, and I popped her and dropped her.  It instantly put her back in her place--those were her words, "You put me back in my place."  She melted, was instantly back in her usual submissive place, and was able to talk to me about what had upset her (which had totally baffle dme before).

Maybe I am an abusive asshole--wait, I am an asshole--that is to say, maybe I am abusive and evil and bad and whatnot.  But I look back at these two girls in my life, and for them, harsh physical corrections when they were spinning off their axis were very centering experiences.  In a pragmatic sense, it worked.  I've had other partners (the majority) for whom that didn't feel right, and we didn't do that sort of thing.  My best undersatnding though is that for some, to be struck and physically "put in their place" is a good thing.

_____________________________

True masters, true subs and slaves, X many years in the lifestyle, Old Guard this and High Protocol that--it's like a convention of D&D nerds were allowed to have sex once, and they decided to make a religion out of it.

(in reply to daddysprop247)
Profile   Post #: 259
RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 2:53:40 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		I love doing Deep Impact as SM, I avoid similar activities as a matter of punishment, simply a choice I make.
I need the seperation between this and a few other types of SM and discipline for my own reasons.

Still seeing huge running broad jumps to conclusions, though.
Closed fist must be abussive, but hitting them with a stick is OK? man the twisted logic it must take to get that.

Bottom line that keeps being jumped over by so many is abuse is not about what one does or does not get hit with, it is about infromed consent, and the motivations for what people are doing.
One can be abussive without any hitting at all, or with hitting with anything from bare handed to bullwhips.

(in reply to Faramir)
Profile   Post #: 260
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