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RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 3:02:14 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Same logic that says three dates before sex = not a slut

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RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 3:04:49 PM   
mistoferin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
Bottom line that keeps being jumped over by so many is abuse is not about what one does or does not get hit with, it is about infromed consent, and the motivations for what people are doing.


Thank you.

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There are no victims here...only volunteers.

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RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 3:06:52 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

[...] if my Master beats me as punishment, there may be some anger and/or frustration there, mingled in with his disappointment in me for my poor behavior or mistake [...]



(This is an aside, but as I read through your posts, I have increasing difficulty in believing you ever do anything that would warrant any kind of violent punishment from anybody. Aside closed.)

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RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 3:39:26 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MellowSir

I was wondering how the sub/slave knows for sure that their dom does it out of love and not anger, I'm sure that in the women's shelters many would say that they stayed because they were sure that their partner "loved" them.....and no, I don't equate every situation with domestic violence, I do know that when the vanilla world sees such things(and hardcore is mostly what they see), that it is what gives bdsm a bad rep.....for every violent dominant there is a gentle one.....



How in the hell do you tell when a dominant is beating you with a cane out of love or anger?

Would the women not be at the women's shelter if he had used a different instrument to inflict the beating besides his fist...like a cane, belt, or paddle?

The inconcvievable idiocy of some of the poorly thought out opinions (or should I say opinions that clearly did not have any form of real cognitive thought applied to them) is just amazing is this thread.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 7/6/2007 3:42:24 PM >

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RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 3:57:45 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		Hey...I guess everyone here who uses an open hand as a slap to someone's cheek or to spank someone in the ass needs to be in handcuffs to avoid sending someone to a women's shelter.

Unless of course...closing my hand into a fist somehow magically changes the context of the situation.

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RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 4:01:37 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

these reactions satisfy the beast within him as much as the physical exertion of the beating itself.


I get it, I think, though it's not my kink at the moment.

quote:

he doesn't fight for recreation...if he's punching a guy, he's out to seriously flock him up


~nod~

That's why I don't like mixing. My higher mental functions just take the back seat when there is a situation. Except for the stuff my training has instilled, my gut reaction is to keep my balance, avoid any attacks, and go for the eyes or major arteries/veins, the neck if I'm close enough to bite, or a headbutt when that's "appropriate".

I don't want to tear down any walls between that and my regular life.

quote:

wow...i wasn't aware that the impact from solid punches and kicks could be so powerful.


Most people aren't, which is just as well, or they'd probably start legislating it.

Even an untrained person's punch can generate enough force to break the bones in their own hands and/or arm, if the direction of impact is right (that is, wrong) which is one of the reasons why most martial arts spend a bit of time on getting the skeletal alignment just right, the other being that proper skeletal alignment means less power will be absorbed by your own muscles and soft tissues, since there will be a target-bone-ground path for the blow (physics: force can only be exerted between things).

quote:

being a total pain wuss, as painful as punches and kicks are, they are much easier for me to tolerate than say a whipping with a belt or any other "stingy" sensation.


Sharp pains can be harder for to tolerate than dull/blunt ones, depending on how your mind works. They register via different pathways, if I recall correctly, though that is one I'm not sure about. I just seem to recall there's one set of nerves carrying the faster impulses, including sharp pain, and another that carries slower impulses.

quote:

but with punching and kicking, the real pain doesn't hit until the following days and i realize i can't walk/run/lift/bend over like usual.


~nod~

While bruising sets in the same day, it's the next day the real "fun" begins.

Reminds me of the first hard contact training I had. Didn't look so bad in the evening, but the next morning, it was plenty of work just rolling out of bed, and lots of "nice" memories upon hitting the floor. I had to wear long sleeves and button up my shirt properly for days, as pretty much everything from the ankles up was just covered in bruises.

quote:

yep, we have been pretty fortunate thus far.


Best of luck with it.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 4:03:33 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/2000/11_00/vincent.htm


Thanks for that link. Quite interesting.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 4:13:05 PM   
Hottiegurl


Posts: 180
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		Since I have only had one scene in person with BDSM, I have not the background there to speak.  However, with fighting and trying to control fighting I have had a lot of practice.
 
I hate to be punched.  In work I was punched and at home I have a son that punches me. (Behavior Disorder)  I quit that line of work.  Can't quit my son.
 
So if a Dom/Master/Owner wanted to punch me I may ask or beg him not to, I think I have had enough.  If it fit the scene I might take a few.
 
Hottie

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 4:26:06 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TigerNINTails

In fact, it's partial to my hesitance to use more than grappling or slapping in my rough play, though I can see applications for more martial oriented combativeness in BDSM.


Technically, punching and kicking are martial... "martial" meaning, well... you know.

quote:

The kidney's, Aswad are something to be avoided at all costs


Didn't I pretty much say that?

quote:

I'm personally happy with open hand strikes, but the oddity in that is that I can do just as much damage (kinetically, through energizing moisture in the body) with a slap, as most people can do with a punch.


I can definitely see that. I saw my instructor use a cop for a demo. The slap knocked him to the ground, and I could see the instructor was holding back. The cop, however, was shaking his head, trying to get his bearings. A few of those who watched, dubbed it the "Bitchslap 2000".

One just needs to know how the power for something is derived, and that involves both bodies.

quote:

The reason that's combat, is I've reached a point where I couldn't un-learn the method that I've learned to punch, and invariably it doesn't cross a broad area...


~nod~

There are other strikes too, depending on the art, but the regular punch is a classic in most, and once you're used to doing it, it's instinct. But I think the more relevant thing is that, when one is used to punching, the speed gets to a level where thought and action are the same, at which point you no longer pull the punches, but rather select how deeply into the target you want to aim for, along what axis. And even a surface punch can be worse than one might want to put into the "BDSM drawer" at that point.

At least, that's what I've been working with. Adjusting the depth is adequate to avoid injury in a partner at your own level, and when you're only adjusting the aim, and not the execution, you end up shaving valuable hundredths off the time to the next move, among other things.

quote:

Bone is funny that way.


I thought it was the cartilage and skin that were growing?

The knuckles themselves require about 20-40 times the force of plain bones to break, IIRC.

quote:

There is no swordsman more dangerous, than the one who doesn't know how to use it.


Ow.

I just had mental images of these guys at katana conventions who really just want one that will look nice on their fireplace or something, pulling the sword and misjudging the pull, or flailing about with it. Usually gets you kicked out of a good convention, if I understand correctly. The ones they show off at conventions are usually way too pricey for me at this stage.

quote:

I'd personally suggest, that if you really think that punching and kicking can't occur safely in an environment that isn't "abusive"... Go join a Dojo... Become enlightened.


That's actually a very good point. Or even just visiting one.

A good demonstration, aimed at a less mainstream audience, is also a viable choice, I guess.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 4:33:03 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ginzie

I know limits are the pervue of the participants, but when it goes to punching, then its time to look for some help. There's something else going on besides erotica or pleasure.


It's a matter of how hard you go, and whether you're both comfortable with it.

Have you ever used a paddle, or a whip in BDSM?

Because I'm pretty sure I could injure kill someone with either, more effectively than with my hands.

And that effectiveness carries over into accidents.

As usual, training and communication are key.

quote:


Just my opinion!


Well, there are several on both sides of the issue in this thread, it seems.

Welcome to the boards, in any case.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Ginzie)
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RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 5:15:16 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ripples

I wonder how many in a Thug scenario have taken advantage of training as Archer offers and if there have been any occassions where a D has not controlled their aggression sufficiently?


Aggression is not necessarily implicit in punching or whatever.

quote:

Conversely, if one were to punch, kick, slap, one's body will react accordingly - a rush of adrenaline etc.


It is quite possible, and indeed desireable, to function both with and without adrenaline, as the levels will depend on the situation. When training, one will also not use aggression, at least not in self-defense oriented martial arts. Quite simply, you need to be able to defend yourself straight away, and normal humans do not, without drugs, go from 0 to 60 in a fraction of a second.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 5:36:03 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

just because i don't share your ideal of being a human punching bag doesn't mean i'm narrow-minded.


I'm going to have to go with Faramir on this one.

Behind the confrontational tone, he's got a solid point, and it's dead on.

quote:


i'm loved and cherished not getting the crap kicked out of me for pleasure by my Daddy.


Err... no.
That doesn't have anything to do with it.
Being loved and cherished is not measured by someone else's standard.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)
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RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 5:40:13 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GhitaAmati

I think alot of the bad stigmatism comes from culture issues.


~nod~

That point has been raised, and I agree.

Those from countries still using flogging as punishment will probably see that in a similar light.

quote:


what about people who box for fun and for excersice? It isnt erotic then, but neither is it abuse, and ALOT more damage is caused.


Similarly, one might raise the point about face slapping.
A single slap to the face shouldn't do any harm to a young, healthy person.
But repeated slaps to the face might, as you're bouncing the brain around inside the skull.
The impacts after the first are worse, in terms of damage, the way I've heard it told.
Even with the same amount of force.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 5:42:21 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MellowSir

Sure, just go to any battered women's shelter and they'll tell you how much they enjoyed getting beat up


What does this have to do with anything?

There's a huge difference between inflicting on someone who consents and someone who doesn't.

Same as with sex. With consent, it's sex. Without, it's rape.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to MellowSir)
Profile   Post #: 274
RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 5:44:09 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Why not? He already tried to equate it with child abuse.


That's one interpretation.

If read in good faith, though, we could think it was a speculation about whether there is a connection.

The latter is more conducive to debate, and less conducive to flaming arguments.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 275
RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 5:45:53 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I believe that he was responding to daddysprop's statement that she is punched and kicked out of anger and as a means of discipline and punishment. I believe it is not unreasonable to connect such a statement with domestic violence.


Domestic violence occurs without consent.
Discipline and punishment with consent is a different matter.
Some use it, some don't. Some wait until they've cooled off, some don't.
Whether they use a belt, or spanking, or punching, or whatever, doesn't really matter.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 276
RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 5:51:38 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

This is an aside, but as I read through your posts, I have increasing difficulty in believing you ever do anything that would warrant any kind of violent punishment from anybody.


Depends on the standard she is being held to, doesn't it?
I don't see her making most of the kinds of mistakes I would worry about.
But other people may have different standards, and that is clearly the case for her Daddy.

Nothing wrong with that.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 277
RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 6:25:57 PM   
PeggyO


Posts: 129
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MellowSir

I was wondering how the sub/slave knows for sure that their dom does it out of love and not anger, I'm sure that in the women's shelters many would say that they stayed because they were sure that their partner "loved" them.....and no, I don't equate every situation with domestic violence, I do know that when the vanilla world sees such things(and hardcore is mostly what they see), that it is what gives bdsm a bad rep.....for every violent dominant there is a gentle one.....




Hello,

That is an easy one to answer.  How do I know that someone that I am playing with is doing it out of love, not out of anger?  Well, because for me and my partners, BDSM is about sex.  In our cases, we don't play when we're angry with each other because we don't feel like having sex when we're angry.  Sex - and by extension - BDSM is about love and expressing it.

Frankly, it really doesn't matter how the "vanilla" world sees it.  Many in the vanilla world see homosexual sex as bad also.  So does that mean homosexuals should stop having sex because vanillas will see it wrong and think it's bad?

It's not about dualism.  It's not about "gentle" vs. "violent".  I don't see the sex I have as "violent".  "Rough" definitely - or at least it better be if it's going to be any good.  But I wouldn't characterize it as "violent".

It is obvious that you don't like rough or heavy play and don't do it.  Cool.  However it seems to me that you have some pretty strong negative stereotypes around that type of play and those of us whose preference is to play that way.

I might suggest that you try to look at what we do without applying your own filters to it and understand it for what it is - simply a different way of play that some intelligent, loving adults enjoy with each other.

Take care,

Peggy

(in reply to MellowSir)
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RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 6:34:38 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
The inconcvievable idiocy of some of the poorly thought out opinions (or should I say opinions that clearly did not have any form of real cognitive thought applied to them) is just amazing is this thread.


LMAO...  becareful.. all... one AW fuck will cost you all those Atta Boy's.

btw... it's not just this thread.... just look around.

Also.... of course that is not to say there is not some incredible stuff from alot of different people....

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 279
RE: Punching your sub/slave? - 7/6/2007 7:06:42 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		I know what you mean. Think its just irritating me a bit more as of late.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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