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Rover -> RE: how old? (7/8/2007 9:48:07 PM)
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ORIGINAL: Slavetrainer2007
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Dominance & Submission: Completely unknown concept prior to the late 1960's.
Dominance and submission actually predate Homo sapiens, and in fact it could be supposed that shortly after the second species of life evolved, one began to dominate the other.[citation needed]
But our concern here is D/s of an erotic nature, which can be hard to document especially in cultures where one gender or another is presumed dominant. It can be hard to tell if one submits because it is pleasurable or for more practical reasons, such as food and shelter.
Still there are many writings from the ancient age through the modern that would clearly indicate a willingness to submit for purely romantic reasons.
Geoffrey Chaucer (1342 - 1400) describes in his work "The Canterbury Tales" a clearly D/s relationship with a female dominant in "The Wife of Bath's Tale".
Another medieval example is the literary convention of courtly love, an ideal which usually required a knight to serve his courtly lady (in "love service") with the same obedience and loyalty which he owed to his liege lord. This convention was submissive and sometimes fetishistic, with the knight performing acts of cross-dressing and self-flagellation. However, the relationship between the literary conventions and actual practices is unknown.
There are also accounts of prostitutes in most major cities that catered to male submissives, as well as masochists. In a male dominated world it was all too easy for a submissive woman to find a strict male dominant, but some women still found ways to leave husbands who were "too soft".
One of the most famous works in this area is Leopold von Sacher-Masoch's Venus im Pelz (Venus in Furs, 1869), in which the protagonist Severin persuades a woman, Wanda, to take him on as her slave, serves her and allows her to degrade him. The book has elements of both social and physical submission, and is the genesis of the term masochism coined by the 19th century psychiatrist Krafft-Ebing.
The Rolling Stones song "Under my Thumb" (M. Jagger, 1966) is supposedly about a D/s relationship.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominance/submission#History
Sources References:
- Gloria G. Brame, William D. Brame, and Jon Jacobs. Different Loving: An Exploration of the World of Sexual Dominance and Submission. New York: Villard Books, 1993. ISBN 0-679-40873-8.
- Jack Rinella, The Complete Slave: Creating and Living an Erotic Dominant/Submissive Lifestyle. Daedelus publishing Co, 2002. ISBN 1-881943-13-5.
- Jack Rinella, The Master's Manual: A Handbook of Erotic Dominance. Daedelus Publushing Co., 1994. ISBN 1-881943-03-8.
- Guy Baldwin, SlaveCraft: Roadmaps for Erotic Servitude — Principles, Skills and Tools. Daedelus Publishing Co, 2002. ISBN 1-881943-14-3.
- Claudia Varrin, Art of Sensual Female Dominance: A Guide for Women. Birch Lane Press, 2000. ISBN 0-8065-2089-2.
- Claudia Varrin, Erotic Surrender: The Sensual Joys of Female Submission. Citadel Press, 2003. ISBN 0-8065-2400-6.
- Philip Miller and Molly Devon, Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns: The Romance and Sexual Sorcery of Sadomasochism. Mystic Rose Books, 1995. ISBN 0-9645960-0-8.
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Bondage & Discipline: I'm not aware that it existed as a practice for pleasure/gratification prior to the mid 19th century, and really took on a recognizeable form in the mid to late 20th century. If you have any documentation beyond personal speculation, I'm always happy to learn something new.
Although some of the techniques of Japanese sexual bondage originated with the military restraint technique of Hojojutsu, sexual bondage techniques are far gentler, and great care is taken to avoid injury.
Many rope artists have derived their own flavor of Japanese-inspired bondage which often mixes some Shibari techniques with other forms of bondage.
Kinbaku is greatly influenced by the Sengoku period of Japan. One of Japan's darkest historical eras of torture and execution, it is still remembered for cruel means and methods that include the use of fire, knives, tattoos, rocks, boiling water, divining blocks and rocking horses[citation needed], etc.
Eventually (in 1742) the Tokugawa government created a foundation of crime laws, which included the seven different types of punishment (Labour, slavery, exile, death, etc) and the four kinds of torture (whip, pressing stone, constriction by rope, and hanging by rope).
According to several sources, bondage as a sexual activity first came to notice in Japan in the late Edo period. Generally recognized as "father of Kinbaku" is Ito Seiu, who started studying and researching Hojojutsu in 1908 and turned it into an art form. Kinbaku became widely popular in the 1950s in magazine form (some sources to some extent credit influence from John Willie with popularizing Kinbaku). In the 1960s, a tradition of bondage as a form of performance art developed in Japan.
In recent years Japanese style ropework has become popular in the western BDSM scene.
[edit] Technique
Traditional Kinbaku is based on fairly specific rope patterns, most of them derived from Hojojutsu ties. Of particular importance are the Ushiro Takatekote (a type of arm box tie), which forms the basis of most Kinbaku ties, and the Ebi, or "Shrimp", which was originally designed as a torture tie but today makes the bottom vulnerable for more pleasant forms of play.
Generally, traditional Kinbaku is practiced with ropes of 7 meters (23 feet) in length. Due to the generally different physique of Western bottoms, 8 meter (26 feet) ropes are commonly used in the West. The rope material is usually hemp or jute (neither sisal nor manila hemp are usually useful), prepared according to specific techniques to achieve a pleasantly soft yet sturdy rope. Other materials are also sometimes used, although most synthetic ropes tend to be too slippery for Shibari techniques.
For historic reasons, Kinbaku uses very few knots, sometimes none at all, or only a lark's head or an overhand knot. This requires rope with high friction. According to Sensei Nawa Yumio in his 1964 classic book on Torinawa, knots on a person was regarded as extremely disgraceful, something some would regard as worse than death. Restraints with no knots were not considered "bondage" and there was no shame in such; therefore, "wrappings" were used.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibari#History
Really i can do this all night with a mere encyclopedia
Same unpardonable sin, mistakenly portraying those sources as having contributed to the piece you pasted. They did not. You're continuing to fabricate your sources. Like you, I can do this all night.
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Still there are many writings from the ancient age through the modern that would clearly indicate a willingness to submit for purely romantic reasons.
Geoffrey Chaucer (1342 - 1400) describes in his work "The Canterbury Tales" a clearly D/s relationship with a female dominant in "The Wife of Bath's Tale".
So, now you're using fictional novels as proof of factual history? Does that mean that Gor really exists? Do you know how silly(er) you sound?
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Another medieval example is the literary convention of courtly love, an ideal which usually required a knight to serve his courtly lady (in "love service") with the same obedience and loyalty which he owed to his liege lord. This convention was submissive and sometimes fetishistic, with the knight performing acts of cross-dressing and self-flagellation. However, the relationship between the literary conventions and actual practices is unknown.
Relevant portion of that passage in red. You're trying to draw factual conclusions through the use of fictional literature. That dog won't hunt.
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There are also accounts of prostitutes in most major cities that catered to male submissives, as well as masochists. In a male dominated world it was all too easy for a submissive woman to find a strict male dominant, but some women still found ways to leave husbands who were "too soft".
I've already told you about S/M oriented European brothels. Remember, you learned that from me before you read it online. :)
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One of the most famous works in this area is Leopold von Sacher-Masoch's Venus im Pelz (Venus in Furs, 1869), in which the protagonist Severin persuades a woman, Wanda, to take him on as her slave, serves her and allows her to degrade him. The book has elements of both social and physical submission, and is the genesis of the term masochism coined by the 19th century psychiatrist Krafft-Ebing.
Leopold von Sacher-Masoch wrote often about his S/M oriented fantasies. So what factual conclusions do you want to draw from an author's fantasies as portrayed in fictional novels? If the substance of your support is wholly or primarily erotic fictional novels, then you'll have to prepare to live life under alien rule (I read that in a novel once, so it must be true).
I could not do half the job of discrediting you, as you have done for yourself.
John
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