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LadyHugs -> RE: how old? (7/8/2007 11:42:06 PM)
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Dear Rover, SlaveTrainer2007, Ladies and Gentlemen;
It makes me sad to witness another exchange where insults and personal attacks occur, instead of staying on topic and or on the issues. I don't enjoy being insulted or seeing others insulted, that is why I offer these thoughts.
There can be many references to historical 'points' to which then would be under different terms and or different languages. Sometimes things are skewed in translation.
Early terms, from what I have read on historical veins as to what we identify today as BDSM was often referred to 'debauchery.' One also has to read the types of torture as to gather the elements as to identify old incidents of torture and techniques into what would be BDSM as we see it in modern terms. Consent is rather veiled, as consent can be freely given to by threat or such, and everything in between. The conditions of civilization, social and judical law change frequently depending on the ruler(s) and or government at the time.
I prefer to think, that we (in general terms) borrow from military, civilian, Imperial and or religion the elements of authority and respect for such; to which at times; through the examples of the Inquisition was as political as it was for religious --but, in all things with any slave, prisoner and or society -- control was the focus and punishment to thwart any efforts to 'challenge it.' I have written on elements of this whole exchange once before with Rover and should be in Collarme.com's archives on posts.
It is fact, that a portrait was created in the 1700's portraying Aristotle being on all fours, with his Mistress Phyllis riding his back, with a whip in motion, holding reins in her hands. I would say this is a pictorial documentation of 'pony play' if there was ever one to be that is untainted by today's heated debates of how 'old' what we do--is. In addition, the Inquisition period documented and a recent PBS series "The Secret Files of the Inquisition" supports the post by SlaveTrainer2007; that the rack, the ovens that are much like what the Nazi's used, where used only women, children and infants were thrown into the flames alive--burned alive. It is documented many times how prisoners were controlled and they had to be controlled some way, form or fashioned --to include the words describing in the Bible, how Jesus was bound, scourged and crucified. How Joseph was sold into bondage by his jealous brothers. It was the times--not only in a religious vein but, the civilization/times of the day. Other documentations have been made so--have museums dedicated to crime and punishment; which show cuffs, racks and other means to torture and most often a lingering death.
Vi Johnson will have her Leather Library and Archives at the 2007 Master-slave conference. I will add I contributed somethings myself. A picture of a distant relative with an English Disciplinary Cane that dates to the early 1900's last year. One of her most prized books was written long ago -- I cannot remember if it was 1700's or 1800's. But, I can say there is history that can be touched, read and researched in her section.
I can remember a time, when I would play as a child and tie up another, tickle torture or spank and or pinch someone, as they would do in kind; be it playing Cowboys and Indians or War in our little forts and go yard to yard capturing, restraining, torturing each other--yet, not to the death. Our minds did not wrap around BDSM as we did not know anything that was adult in nature--we did it because it was fun. We do the same things now but, we have terms and labels to them now. We can be most serious and we too often forget the fun.
Just some thoughts.
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs
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