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ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

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ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

Well it is apparent that she isnt at the point that you are, fact is you are older by a few years so it makes sence you are at different points. You cant expect her to change over night only to help lead her in a better direction, but this is a situation that no matter how Domly you are or how much you try to controll her she is going to resist and it is going to cause friction for you to try and pull power over it and tell her what to do. It will drive her away and you dont want that, show as much understanding as you can and eventualy she may get to where you are, maybe she wont she is a different person then you, I know at 23 I am in the same boat as your slave, my family is very importent to me and they have a lot of power over me, but lucky for me Master knows that power and is understanding of it and he has NEVER made me choose beetween him and them, Only one time has he ever told me to go against something my family wanted me to do and that was because doing so was not in my best interesnt and I didnt want to do it but was gunna because they wanted me to, the thing was I was in the middle of finals getting no sleep and SOOO stressed out he was pulling me off the walls every night and my mom wanted me to go to work with her (she owns her own busyness) I told her no because I needed to sleep some and couldnt get up to early to go to work with her and I couldnt lose the study time eather! but she was guilting me and I was about to crack untill Master ordered me not to go and because I really didnt want to go it made it much easier for me to stick to my no, but that is such an extreme sercomstance. he ordered me because he knew I didnt want to go and that in the long run it would be ok and my Mom would understand, and she did.

Magik's slave

Yeah that sucks, sorry to hear you're under pressure like that.  One thing I've seen in D/s, is people thrive by having someone to "order" them to do what they really want to do to begin with they just need to not have to feel like the blame is landing on them.  Like "forced feminization" being men who want to play at being fem but don't want to feel guilty so they get ordered to do what they really want to.  Well if my slave is answering to too many people, maybe I need to talk to her about it and see how she's handling it and how it's affecting her.  Obviously it now affects us both, and she can't do what I want her to if she can't do it period.  I have no problems being blamed "Do it and tell them it's my fault" is fine with me.

Answers turn up in the darndest places, thanks Magiks [:)]

Oh and the FYI, is I don't tend to discipline until those pesky feelings are talked out and understood and cared for, but it still seems important for consistancy to provide rules and consequences outside of the emotional ones.  As the dominant party, I feel I have the responsibility to provide consistancy and stability.  Rules that change from day to day, and sometimes breaking one gets you in trouble, sometimes it doesn't, well I don't think that would be responsible of me.  So I do want to nurture her and help her deal with things, but at the same time if my rules aren't followed that also must be dealt with.

The emotional stuff, I've gotten some clues for.  Any thoughts on what the discipline warranted might be?  I haven't written the 10,000 page book of Charles's law to look up what the appropriate remedy for this crime is, but for one idea I was thinking of making her copy this thread by hand and then reading it out loud to me.  The other thought is to confisticate her car keys in order to ground her for a time (week maybe).  She is between jobs, so it's not like it would be a hardship right now.

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ORIGINAL: LadyHeart

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ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

Let's step back a moment and look at what I was asking to begin with, or rephrase it.
1)  Is this a breakdown of the M/s dynamic?
2)  Is discipline indicated? 
3)  If discipline is indicated, what kind?

I think by talking about how we're all human beings with family (and ooooh it's a RELATIONSHIP and we all have these FEELINGS) sidesteps the issue that this is a serious M/s dymanic at stake.  If the military calls you to service, do you go party with your old grandpa?  The urgency of my needs versus hers isn't even the point to me here, it's accountability and dependability at stake.

Here's something to ponder.

Scenario One: Let's say in three months' time her grandfather dies, and she didn't go to his last birthday party because of you - how is she going to feel about you then? What will it do to her feelings of self worth? You don't have to be a rocket scientist to work out that she'll feel like crap and blame you.

Scenario Two: The situations are reversed. You miss your grandfather's last birthday party because she needed the use of your car. How would that make her look in your eyes? (Hint - would you think better or worse of someone who put you in that situation?)

Scenario Three: You swallow your disapppointment, take a deep breath, and talk to her like an adult. The conversation goes something like this: I'm feeling really disappointed about what happened. It shows us that we've got some things to sort out around how our D/s dynamic works when D/s conflicts with Life. What do we need to do here to make this right?

Which of those scenes reads best to you? To compare this situation with military call ups is stretching it - but even the military allows compassionate leave.

:))
LH

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ORIGINAL: akbarbarian
I wasn't invited to her grandpa's party

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Your point about communication style is good however.  I am fully willing to throw out any details about what I wanted her to do, because it's M/s, that shouldn't matter.  I wanted her to collect some pet rocks for me.  That's my perrogative.  Even if I invited her to overstate her obedience, it shouldn't be very overstatable due to the fact that she's expected to obey regardless

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When I talked about it, the point I made wasn't whether she would obey it was whether she would do it happily and without whining about my decision

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I never thought she would disobey at any point

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ORIGINAL: adoracat
yes its a relationship.  its just not a vanilla one.  the M/s colors every last bit of it, and that is what is offended at this point. 

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ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

More disobediance accures when there is more to obay and when things that you are expected to obay arent who you are!!!
Also when the Masters expectations of what can be obayed arent realsitic.

Food for thought!

Magik's slave

quote:

ORIGINAL: adoracat
and yeah, i HAVE gotten up from a family dinner and left because my now ex husband decided that i had to be home at a certain time, no matter what my family's wishes were.  it was either that or be beaten.  of the non-consentual type.

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ORIGINAL: adoracat
he had every right to tell her "plans were already made, no you arent going to the party."  he didnt.

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She had every right to tell her family "other plans were made, i need to leave here by X time."  she didnt.

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ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

Let's step back a moment and look at what I was asking to begin with, or rephrase it.
1)  Is this a breakdown of the M/s dynamic?
2)  Is discipline indicated? 
3)  If discipline is indicated, what kind?

I think by talking about how we're all human beings with family (and ooooh it's a RELATIONSHIP and we all have these FEELINGS) sidesteps the issue that this is a serious M/s dymanic at stake.  If the military calls you to service, do you go party with your old grandpa?  The urgency of my needs versus hers isn't even the point to me here, it's accountability and dependability at stake.

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ORIGINAL: MySweetSubmssive

Sorry, akbarbarian, what seems out of phase here is you. 

You ask her a questions that she *must* answer yes to without finding out if that's what she really meant.  You created that faulty dynamic. 

You have had a revelation about life, death, and how it can slip through our fingers.  Great, but that's *your* revelation.  You cannot have epiphanies for other people; wisdom (though I would put that word in quotes here) is not transferrable. 

You state, at one point, that she needs to cut the strings with her family, and that she is now an adult.  Pardon me here while I laugh heartily!  Guess what?  We deal with weird family dynamics throughout our lives.  Some people never iron that crap out.  In this case, with an old grandfather, I wouldn't say it was inappropriate to go to the birthday party.  You want to make this about M/s, but, as one other poster noted, would you be willing to deal with the responsibility of knowing you might have made her miss out on her grandfather's last birthday party?  Think long and hard about something like that. 

You state that part of the reason you wanted her to go to your party is because you have trouble with driving.  Her problem or yours?  What's your motivation for compelling her to go to your party?  Convenience?

Then you give the argument about military service.  Um ... are you her Master/boyfriend or her employer?  Those relationships confer different pleasures/rights/responsibilities.  I think comparing your commands to conscription are undercutting your credibility rather than adding to it.

If you are going to rule others, you need to be able to rule yourself first.  You're coming off here as immature.  As I like to say when I've gotten done with a particularly annoying customer at work, "The problem is you."  Communicate.  Be realistic about the demands of lives and families.  Just because she is yours doesn't mean she has no other responsibilities in her life.  Buy maps.  These things will go a ways in improving your authority and your dynamic.

And give yourself and each other a break.  You've been doing this for four months.  There will be mistakes and blunders on both sides, and if you can't acknowledge and adjust and learn together, you're going to have a tough time.

MSS 

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ORIGINAL: Masternslave07

It seems to me that the start and end times should have been coordinated better from the beginning. It seems strange that a party for a Grandfather would end so late, but it is possible.
She did disobey you. I would say she needs to pay for it. Being a Master is not always easy. Good luck.

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ORIGINAL: DrkJourney

Not sure if I'm understanding, so pardon me if I am getting this wrong.

She's supposed to be cleaning for a party, yet she had time to sign on to collarme, find your post and respond to you about it?

Really doesn't matter what the excuse is....she was supposed to do something and she didn't do it.  So me, myself...I would calm down till I was no longer angry.  Call her to your "saferoom" or where ever you two have frank discussions....talk this out...and when that is done, explain to her how what happened was wrong and why you must punish her.  This way she will know it is not ok, and hopefully that curbs the desire to "create" excuses in the future (not saying this wasn't real, but talking the future)  Give her your punishment, then let it all go and move on.

Just my opinion

good luck!

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ORIGINAL: akbarbarian
This is a M/s relationship that is approaching four months old.  What do I do in such a situation?  What would you think of it, as a Master, or as a slave?

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ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

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ORIGINAL: DrkJourney

Not sure if I'm understanding, so pardon me if I am getting this wrong.

She's supposed to be cleaning for a party, yet she had time to sign on to collarme, find your post and respond to you about it?

Really doesn't matter what the excuse is....she was supposed to do something and she didn't do it.  So me, myself...I would calm down till I was no longer angry.  Call her to your "saferoom" or where ever you two have frank discussions....talk this out...and when that is done, explain to her how what happened was wrong and why you must punish her.  This way she will know it is not ok, and hopefully that curbs the desire to "create" excuses in the future (not saying this wasn't real, but talking the future)  Give her your punishment, then let it all go and move on.

Just my opinion

good luck!

This sounds like a reasonable approach, I'm just trying to decide how to deal with said punishment given the sensitive situation.  I mean, what's the point of punishing her if she believes in what she did and would do it again?  Is there any point to that?  If it won't change what she does, it seems cruel.  I'm all for cruelty in sport, but not cruelty with sad faces.

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ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

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ORIGINAL: MySweetSubmssive

Sorry, akbarbarian, what seems out of phase here is you. 

You ask her a questions that she *must* answer yes to without finding out if that's what she really meant.  You created that faulty dynamic. 

You have had a revelation about life, death, and how it can slip through our fingers.  Great, but that's *your* revelation.  You cannot have epiphanies for other people; wisdom (though I would put that word in quotes here) is not transferrable. 

You state, at one point, that she needs to cut the strings with her family, and that she is now an adult.  Pardon me here while I laugh heartily!  Guess what?  We deal with weird family dynamics throughout our lives.  Some people never iron that crap out.  In this case, with an old grandfather, I wouldn't say it was inappropriate to go to the birthday party.  You want to make this about M/s, but, as one other poster noted, would you be willing to deal with the responsibility of knowing you might have made her miss out on her grandfather's last birthday party?  Think long and hard about something like that. 

You state that part of the reason you wanted her to go to your party is because you have trouble with driving.  Her problem or yours?  What's your motivation for compelling her to go to your party?  Convenience?

Then you give the argument about military service.  Um ... are you her Master/boyfriend or her employer?  Those relationships confer different pleasures/rights/responsibilities.  I think comparing your commands to conscription are undercutting your credibility rather than adding to it.

If you are going to rule others, you need to be able to rule yourself first.  You're coming off here as immature.  As I like to say when I've gotten done with a particularly annoying customer at work, "The problem is you."  Communicate.  Be realistic about the demands of lives and families.  Just because she is yours doesn't mean she has no other responsibilities in her life.  Buy maps.  These things will go a ways in improving your authority and your dynamic.

And give yourself and each other a break.  You've been doing this for four months.  There will be mistakes and blunders on both sides, and if you can't acknowledge and adjust and learn together, you're going to have a tough time.

MSS 

Well, as disappointed as I might have been in my slave's failure today, provided that I think "She could be MySweetSubmissive" I think I'll be doing a little better and it'll be easier to give her that smile.  Congratulations on a good deed, and I hope never to be your customer!

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ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

quote:

ORIGINAL: MySweetSubmssive

Sorry, akbarbarian, what seems out of phase here is you. 

You ask her a questions that she *must* answer yes to without finding out if that's what she really meant.  You created that faulty dynamic. 

You have had a revelation about life, death, and how it can slip through our fingers.  Great, but that's *your* revelation.  You cannot have epiphanies for other people; wisdom (though I would put that word in quotes here) is not transferrable. 

You state, at one point, that she needs to cut the strings with her family, and that she is now an adult.  Pardon me here while I laugh heartily!  Guess what?  We deal with weird family dynamics throughout our lives.  Some people never iron that crap out.  In this case, with an old grandfather, I wouldn't say it was inappropriate to go to the birthday party.  You want to make this about M/s, but, as one other poster noted, would you be willing to deal with the responsibility of knowing you might have made her miss out on her grandfather's last birthday party?  Think long and hard about something like that. 

You state that part of the reason you wanted her to go to your party is because you have trouble with driving.  Her problem or yours?  What's your motivation for compelling her to go to your party?  Convenience?

Then you give the argument about military service.  Um ... are you her Master/boyfriend or her employer?  Those relationships confer different pleasures/rights/responsibilities.  I think comparing your commands to conscription are undercutting your credibility rather than adding to it.

If you are going to rule others, you need to be able to rule yourself first.  You're coming off here as immature.  As I like to say when I've gotten done with a particularly annoying customer at work, "The problem is you."  Communicate.  Be realistic about the demands of lives and families.  Just because she is yours doesn't mean she has no other responsibilities in her life.  Buy maps.  These things will go a ways in improving your authority and your dynamic.

And give yourself and each other a break.  You've been doing this for four months.  There will be mistakes and blunders on both sides, and if you can't acknowledge and adjust and learn together, you're going to have a tough time.

MSS 

Well, as disappointed as I might have been in my slave's failure today, provided that I think "She could be MySweetSubmissive" I think I'll be doing a little better and it'll be easier to give her that smile.  Congratulations on a good deed, and I hope never to be your customer!

Now this was REAL Mature!!

Magik's slave