RE: Being loyal to your word

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akbarbarian -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/7/2007 11:31:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave Like I said discapline is teaching, I think what should be done here is talking lots and lots of talking there is no substitute for it, are you looking for an ok to punish her well that is a different thing and no i dont think punishment would do anything but make things worse spanking her grounding her putting her in the corner, will further any resenment she feels, your best recorse at this point is communication! You came here looking for us to agree with you that your slave was all wrong, but the truth is that isnt the case many people take the blaim here and you are one of them, I dont see why punishing her will do any good!! Magik's slave Well no, I didn't come here looking for or expecting that. We are hardly one people, one voice here. I agree, I want to change what's going on but I wonder if punishing would be unhelpful at this point and that's one reason I am here. I am not shy about talking to her directly, but she's still out, and this is me looking for answers. Communication is the norm, not the exception. Punishment with communication, communication a la carte, and so on. We talk till we're blue in the fact, but that's not what's lacking. What am I looking for? Well some people understood me, some didn't, and some gave helpful feedback. I would like to hear from people who have overcome similar situations, and aren't here to simply throw stones from their probably glass houses.

texancutie -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/7/2007 11:36:31 PM)
If you are a couple....why weren't you invited to go with her? Just asking because it would help to clarify things more.

akbarbarian -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/7/2007 11:40:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: akbarbarian This is a M/s relationship that is approaching four months old. What do I do in such a situation? What would you think of it, as a Master, or as a slave? I think you guys still suck at communicating without a lot of passive aggressive tug of war going on and not much listening without fear at all. I think making "promises" before hearing the whole situation is stupid. I think needing her assurance that she'll obey what you decide shows already that you've got serious stability issues still to work on, birthday parties are pretty much the least of your worries. Finally, I think she was wrong to refuse. She ATTENDED his birthday, she was there (though I'm surprised you didn't go with her). So she wasn't there for the cake and gifts??? So what. She saw him and was there to wish him well. That's more than a lot of people overseas get to do before they die. But this is obviously a very sensitive issue for her. My guess is that once again she was feeling confused and scared and pushed into a corner, and rather than being able to openly express them, she lashed out and pulled away. Now you're hurt and seeking justification. Kinda EXACTLY like what happened with the "going to bed"fight you had a few weeks ago. Work on the communication issues. You both suck at it right now and until you get those cleared up, you'll continue to have all these other fights and issues crop up. You might want to read the rest of the thread before you post. There are so many areas to correct, it's almost a rewrite. Regardless, who stuck a burr in your side tonight anyway? How do you know we are both passive aggressive, or do you mean just one of us? The not listening thing...just strikes me with irony at this very moment. The promises thing was explained earlier, it's not that I didn't think she'd obey, and I agreed that a better mode of expression seems helpful. The whole schedule was really screwy, and apparently she didn't get to even see him for the first 6 hours she was there. This hurts, but I'm seeking DIRECTION, not justification.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/7/2007 11:42:09 PM)
I did read it all before I posted. The fact that you're being so defensive right now makes this entire thing futile. You're not accepting any sort of responsibility for your own failures and issues and until you stop trying so hard to avoid all of that, no progress or understanding can be made.

akbarbarian -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/7/2007 11:42:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: texancutie If you are a couple....why weren't you invited to go with her? Just asking because it would help to clarify things more. Good question. I tried introducing myself and shaking his hand, but he shrank away and didn't say a word. I've met her brother, and he's the only member of the family that's ever spoken to me.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/7/2007 11:44:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: akbarbarian Good question. I tried introducing myself and shaking his hand, but he shrank away and didn't say a word. I've met her brother, and he's the only member of the family that's ever spoken to me. aka "Since I wasn't welcomed and made to feel wanted, I got pouty and instead of supporting my partner and working my way slowly into the bostom of her family which she obviously cares very deeply for and needs clear boundaries with, instead of going with her so that we'd both be together and I could easily make apologies and goodbyes for us both and take care of the situation and have us BOTH be at the car at all times...I just avoided the issue and sat pouting so that when I didn't get what I wanted and life didn't treat me well, I could come online and try and show how sucky everyone else is"

akbarbarian -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/7/2007 11:46:20 PM)
"Suck, passive aggressive, not listening, stupid, failures" these are just some of the words you've chosen to use. How can you advice me on communication skills when you choose to use words such as these to render advice? I may have problems, I can admit it. Presently though, I'd appreciate it if you take a good hard look in the mirror yourself.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/7/2007 11:48:40 PM)
Hmm yes, deflect it once again and say I am the one with the problem and that I can't give good advice- gee that's not the song you were singing a few weeks ago when you came here last time when you were having these same identical issues. I used those words in order to be harsh and in order to show you just how ridiculous it is. But you're still being defensive and avoiding your issues. I just got back from a fabulous party with my partner I've lived insanely happy with for a year. Exactly why am I the one who should look at things when I'm not the one who keeps making threads like these?

sublimelysensual -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/7/2007 11:49:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: akbarbarian quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave She lived with her granfather and it is apparent the he is importent to her Actually, she used to lock the door as soon as she'd get home simply to get away from her. She is being guilted into this by her mom. He used to go through all her belongings. I met him, he wouldn't even make eye contact, shake my hand, or introduce himself to me. quote: you said you have never even met this cousin!! , how is you telling her to leave the party when she doesnt even know how many more her grandfather will have the best desistion you can make for her??? Since when it being a Master about making the best decision for her? I thought it was about making the best decision for us as a Master/slave couple. It's not always easy following through with that. When she doesn't want to do somthing, or is in a tough spot, I'd love to be able to get out of that situation of having to decide what to do. If I allow her to get out of commitments to me, or to her role as a slave, time and time again, how does that even help her if being a slave is what she wants to be? It seems to me that it dishonors us both and what we say say we stand for as a couple. Okay, here's the thing..I can completely understand the intensity of your reaction. she made a promise to you, and didn't keep it. That being said, it was not a simple situation. If it was simply a friend and not a family member (much less one she had lived with), it would be a different story, I would agree with the punish her, she needs to learn a lesson mentality. But it sounds like she didn't know the situation was going to evolve the way it did. As for her taking the time to shoot you a message, clearly this is upsetting her, and i'm assuming she didn't have to leave the house to do so. It probably took her less than ten minutes total. With family, it doesn't matter if you dislike them and their actions 99% of the time, they're still family. Her mother sounds like a controlling individual (as mine is). Intellectually, i know that it doesn't matter what i do, it isn't going to please her. Emotionally, is an entirely different story, i do still want her approval and there's always this small place in my heart that thinks if i do the right thing, act the right way, etc, i could get it. Being involved in a relationship with a significant other and that type of family member... The thing is, in that type of situation you always know you're going to disappoint someone, and that isn't an easy thing to deal with. Her mom was there (physically speaking), and in that moment what was going through her head was probably that it was her mother's reactions she was going to have to deal with first. It's harder to deal with a person's reaction when they're right there in your face. i'm sure she knew you were going to be upset, but again.. in that moment, it was the lesser of two evils. i'm sure she's regretting what's happened, and not because she thinks she's going to be punished, but because she knows she let you down. i don't know if this helps you at all, but thought it might give you a view you hadn't considered. The relationship is about what's best for both of you, but sometimes you have to put things in perspective. Sit down calmly, talk to her about it, not just from the viewpoint that you're disappointed because she failed you in whatever ways, but also about what she thinks you could do to help prevent the family/Master type conflict in the future. i've been in that type of conflicting situation, and having support from my significant other helped immensely, whether it was a phone call, having him by my side, whatever. It's definitely not an easy thing to deal with, and i wish you both luck. Just my two cents, as always, take it for what it's worth... -a

subiugo -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/7/2007 11:52:50 PM)
From a (male) submissive's point of view... Being a good slave or submissive takes time. You say you are in a D/s-relationship for four months. i don't know if for your submissive this is the first D/s-relationship she entered. But four months isn't a long time to build up a relationship. Certainly not a D/s-relationship. So, maybe your submissive was wrong, but certainly it was a 'beginners fault'. And beginners faults must be corrected in another way than offenses made by an experienced submissive. It is your responsibiltiy to train your submissive, so you must see what happened as an opportunity to train her. In this case especially... your submissive chose (willingly) to be your slave. But everybody is a slave to so many things (unwillingly). (see my blog Independence day and the pursuit of happiness on this subject) And a lot of people are 'slave' to their family. It is a history of dependency that is playing in family relations. (And isn't it a general law in relationships, D/s-relationships included, that the family in law is most difficult to handle?) So apart from learning to be your slave, your submissive has to de-learn to be the slave of her family. And four months aren't a long time to de-learn the way you are 'programmed' from the first time your mother smiled to you when you were born...

akbarbarian -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/7/2007 11:53:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross I just avoided the issue and sat pouting so that when I didn't get what I wanted and life didn't treat me well, I could come online and try and show how sucky everyone else is" I hope you never spit this venom at anyone else who might actually listen and be chased away. You are a senior poster on this board, and help many people find answers. There might be some who need answers, try to find them here, and turn up empty handed. So ah...use your powers for good not evil ok?

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/7/2007 11:55:05 PM)
Yeah, I really shouldn't expect people who come to an adult forum asking relationship questions to be able to handle harsh criticism, should I? How silly of me.

BabyNyla -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/7/2007 11:56:50 PM)
Okies ... I got curious and had to go look up the bedtime forum ... and in that forum, from 6/15 ... you said you were only in a relationship for 2 months ... and now, 7/8 (not even a month later ... it's 4 months? Am I missing something?

charlotte12 -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/7/2007 11:58:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: akbarbarian I actually have met my cousin, but only once and only recently. What you are pointing out is true, that there are reprocussions or at least what sounds like guilt or threats to her not doing what her family wants. I don't think there should be reprocussions, and if there are, I think there are strings that ought to be cut. I'd like to see her have a relationship with her family where she doesn't have to do what they say, and they won't be offended or come down on her. I'd like to see her have more independance versus her family is what I'm getting at, and if she doesn't, well then it starts to look like a case where I can make plans as long as her family objects. Other people having veto rights versus your slave really sucks. I certainly haven't let my family come between me and someone I'm with, and I expect the same. Shouldn't I? I think it makes sense that you want your slave to learn to be more independent from her family, especially if they are manipulative (which i'm not saying they are or aren't). However, i do not believe she will learn to do this by learning to be dependent on you instead. I am speaking merely from my own perspective here but it takes a lot of time to break these ties that you say should be cut. I still have a hard time saying no to my mother and she still finds ways to manipulate me and it's something i am working on but it is only getting easier as i become more confident in myself and my ability to stand up for myself. I think that this is something you two will need to spend some time talking about. I think this topic might hit a little too close to home for me to give any kind of real advice except that there probably needed to be more and better communication. I would hope that if i was placed in the same situation i would have the presence of mind to explain exactly what was going on to my Master and how i felt about the situation and maybe even plead for him to reconsider but that i would still do as told if i had made the situation perfectly clear. It is the slaves duty to communicate clearly to her Master what is going on and i think you two were both put in a hard situation here. I do not believe that as a slave she should be allowed to obey only when she wants to but i also feel that i would have a hard time calling myself slave to someone who i did not feel was making an informed rational decision. Communication on both ends is the only way this can be done. I think that being forced to deal with the situation in the moment rather then having time to think it through made it even more difficult and i imagine when you two are back together and have both had a chance to release some of the stress that the situation obviously caused you two will be able to talk about it and figure out what happened. Good luck! ~charlotte

akbarbarian -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/7/2007 11:59:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross Hmm yes, deflect it once again and say I am the one with the problem and that I can't give good advice- gee that's not the song you were singing a few weeks ago when you came here last time when you were having these same identical issues. I used those words in order to be harsh and in order to show you just how ridiculous it is. But you're still being defensive and avoiding your issues. I just got back from a fabulous party with my partner I've lived insanely happy with for a year. Exactly why am I the one who should look at things when I'm not the one who keeps making threads like these? They say churches are for the sick of spirit, oh Reverend LuckyAlbatross, so here I am in the church of kink. You have been here for 12000+ posts, have you never had issues yourself to work out in all that time? I never claimed to be without issues. Why then do you claim I say am without flaw, and why also do you say one so flawed as I shouldn't question you especially in your criticism of me? I am not here to judge what I don't see in you, in your past, or off the screen, I'm not such a fool. I only judge what you said about me, and especially the language you used, on this forum, and it was what I would like to think is beneath you. That however, is for you to prove one way or the other.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/8/2007 12:02:25 AM)
Mostly because you're still here talking to me about justification and who's cool, while successfully avoiding ever saying "OK I see I need to work on X, Y and Z, and that WE should work more on G and H. Are there any specific suggestions on how we go about that" in this entire thread. Again I used that language on you because obviously the first go round my "nice language" didn't do any good. So now I'm trying the harsher tactic. And will wait to see what you post next month.

akbarbarian -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/8/2007 12:04:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sublimelysensual quote: ORIGINAL: akbarbarian quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave She lived with her granfather and it is apparent the he is importent to her Actually, she used to lock the door as soon as she'd get home simply to get away from her. She is being guilted into this by her mom. He used to go through all her belongings. I met him, he wouldn't even make eye contact, shake my hand, or introduce himself to me. quote: you said you have never even met this cousin!! , how is you telling her to leave the party when she doesnt even know how many more her grandfather will have the best desistion you can make for her??? Since when it being a Master about making the best decision for her? I thought it was about making the best decision for us as a Master/slave couple. It's not always easy following through with that. When she doesn't want to do somthing, or is in a tough spot, I'd love to be able to get out of that situation of having to decide what to do. If I allow her to get out of commitments to me, or to her role as a slave, time and time again, how does that even help her if being a slave is what she wants to be? It seems to me that it dishonors us both and what we say say we stand for as a couple. Okay, here's the thing..I can completely understand the intensity of your reaction. she made a promise to you, and didn't keep it. That being said, it was not a simple situation. If it was simply a friend and not a family member (much less one she had lived with), it would be a different story, I would agree with the punish her, she needs to learn a lesson mentality. But it sounds like she didn't know the situation was going to evolve the way it did. As for her taking the time to shoot you a message, clearly this is upsetting her, and i'm assuming she didn't have to leave the house to do so. It probably took her less than ten minutes total. With family, it doesn't matter if you dislike them and their actions 99% of the time, they're still family. Her mother sounds like a controlling individual (as mine is). Intellectually, i know that it doesn't matter what i do, it isn't going to please her. Emotionally, is an entirely different story, i do still want her approval and there's always this small place in my heart that thinks if i do the right thing, act the right way, etc, i could get it. Being involved in a relationship with a significant other and that type of family member... The thing is, in that type of situation you always know you're going to disappoint someone, and that isn't an easy thing to deal with. Her mom was there (physically speaking), and in that moment what was going through her head was probably that it was her mother's reactions she was going to have to deal with first. It's harder to deal with a person's reaction when they're right there in your face. i'm sure she knew you were going to be upset, but again.. in that moment, it was the lesser of two evils. i'm sure she's regretting what's happened, and not because she thinks she's going to be punished, but because she knows she let you down. i don't know if this helps you at all, but thought it might give you a view you hadn't considered. The relationship is about what's best for both of you, but sometimes you have to put things in perspective. Sit down calmly, talk to her about it, not just from the viewpoint that you're disappointed because she failed you in whatever ways, but also about what she thinks you could do to help prevent the family/Master type conflict in the future. i've been in that type of conflicting situation, and having support from my significant other helped immensely, whether it was a phone call, having him by my side, whatever. It's definitely not an easy thing to deal with, and i wish you both luck. Just my two cents, as always, take it for what it's worth... -a Thanks. I've gone through this from alot of angles, trying to understand what happened, why, and what is reasonable for me to expect. The fact that I know if she hadn't already been there in the town where her family lives, she would have been obedient, threw me off for awhile. I'm starting to come to terms with how I could expect obedience if she hadn't gone yet, but not expect obedience in returning to me if they want her to stay late. I'm sure I'll find out details soon when she returns home.

MySweetSubmssive -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/8/2007 12:05:54 AM)
Ditto. You asked for feedback. If you only got suggestions that completely agreed with your point of view, there would be nothing to challenge you, and nothing for you to learn from. Yes, criticism can sting (especially if it's acurate!). Man up! Even if it's not comfortable, try looking at it and seeing if there's something there. MSS

charlotte12 -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/8/2007 12:06:05 AM)
I wanted to add that i just saw what sublimelysensual said and that i completely agree. Intellectually i understand that i need to cut some ties to my mother but emotionally is a whole other story and in the moment she was there with her mother. I'm not saying that the fault is all on you or on her. Just adding that i can relate to that feeling which perhaps you might not have considered. Part of being in a relationship is understanding where someone is at, not just focusing on where you would like them to be. Again, good luck working it out

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Being loyal to your word (7/8/2007 12:06:08 AM)
Sounds like you're sitting and waiting to blast her into a whole guilt trip of not being a good slave.

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