RE: cross-dressing (Full Version)

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DSwriter -> RE: cross-dressing (7/16/2007 6:28:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella40
DSwriter,. why are you picking on me?

Why are you using this analogy of a castration fantasy, or suggesting that I'm living in a fantasy world?

Why do you feel that you've got the right to probe into my private life and make negative assumptions as to who I am and my gender? Why do you feel the need to challenge me and my gender?

And why do you feel that I need to test my own conclusions?

I can assure you that I am not seeing a 'quack' - but am under the care of one of the top 20 UK specialists in gender reassignments at London's Charing Cross Hospital.

I posted what I did in good faith to help people. I don't see why this should lead to me being interrogated or there being some sort of inquisition.

But what is it with you DSwriter? Are you on a mission to expose 'fake' transsexuals or something?

You don't know me from Adam, I don't know you, I know who I am, I don't need you or anyone else to validate who I am.

And besides, there's such a thing as minding your own business.


Not picking on you Stella.  Nor am i on a mission.  What you do with your life is your business.

This thread has gone way beyond the relative frivolity of crossdressing into something very serious, into a realm where there more broken bodies and destroyed families than there are happy endings. 

The "inquisition" you feel i've put you under is nothing compared to what goes on out in the real world for transsexuals. Was just curious to hear why you think you are a female.

I'll be 'minding my own business' from this moment forward.  Have a wonderful life.




stella40 -> RE: cross-dressing (7/16/2007 11:50:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DSwriter

The "inquisition" you feel i've put you under is nothing compared to what goes on out in the real world for transsexuals. Was just curious to hear why you think you are a female.



Yeah, well DSwriter, maybe the reason why I don't have too many problems out in the 'real' world (and yes, I do live in the REAL world) is because I AM female and a GENUINE transsexual.

But I'm glad you touched on the point of 'something very serious, into a realm where there more broken bodies and destroyed families than there are happy endings'.

But this isn't just because that those who claim to be transsexuals and female later find out that they're not and abandon their transition, and it isn't just because of the minority - and yes, it really is a minority of transsexuals - who regret going through the whole gender reassignment process.

But it's also down to prejudice, predominantly out of ignorance, from people not knowing enough about or understanding the mindset of the transsexual. It comes from people seeing what they perceive to be a man 'trying to be a woman', it comes from thinking that person is mentally ill or emotionally disturbed, and much of the prejudice comes from people believing that the transsexual is 'choosing' to become a member of 'the opposite sex'. Some have prejudices because of religious beliefs. To many in society a man has a penis, a woman has a vagina, and they simply see things as being black and white.

And quite a lot of this prejudice comes from those who claim to have expert knowledge, whether it be from the Internet (quite often the 'basis' of their knowledge are the pornographic transsexual or 'chicks with dicks' websites), from knowing or contact with other transsexuals, or through going through a phase of thinking themselves to be a transsexual. It doesn't matter, because these people feel that, because they have something to compare someone else with, that they have 'better knowledge' and they assume that they know better than the person they're talking about, when in actual fact they don't. They quite often base their assumptions, and their arguments, on the appearance of the other person, and their life history, they draw their own conclusions and feel that they know better than that other person, despite not knowing much about the other person. They also have this mistaken belief that their opinion for some reason carries more weight than that of the person they're referring to.

It's very easy to attack a transsexual and accuse them of being deluded or thinking that they're not who they say they are because gender dysphoria doesn't have any physical symptoms, and it isn't easy to establish whether someone has gender dysphoria or not, which is what makes the whole process of gender reassignment so difficult and challenging. But the simple fact is that unless you have a very real and intimate knowledge of that person you do not know, and cannot say.

And it is precisely these prejudices, and a refusal to overcome these prejudices, from other people, which makes life so difficult and challenging for the transsexual, especially the pre-operative transsexual who is working to reestablish herself in her new identity in the outside world, to go through the gender reassignment process, and to make something of her life. This can be a vulnerable stage, especially in the earlier stages of gender reassignment.

Usually this is a very vulnerable stage because the hardest stage of the whole gender reassignment process is the coming out and the establishment of oneself in one's true gender and yes there are casualties - broken relationships, broken family ties, broken friendships, the loss of employment, the ending of careers, and even the loss of one's home, not to mention the estrangement from one's children. It isn't guaranteed that everyone will accept you in your new identity, irrespective of how long they have known you, and for most transsexuals it's the emotional loss and separations which ensue from coming out which becomes the most painful and difficult of the whole gender reassignment process. It leaves victims on both sides, not because people are out to deceive or hurt one another, but because the reinforcement of gender stereotypes is so strong that people can often feel deceived when that person they know to be Paul suddenly decides to become Paula.

However out in the real world the majority of people aren't really all that bothered, because people see you for who you are, how you present yourself and how you come across. The only people who are really that bothered are the people who have the prejudices but these are in the minority and you can pretty much live without them. Most people aren't that bothered, and some are even supportive and go out of their way to be helpful.

So DSwriter there's no need to preach to me how it is in the real world, I know how it is in the real world, and yes, I've been around the block a few times. Those that know me, my friends, the people I work with, my family, my Domme, my neighbours, and the many people I interact with don't really have an issue with me or my mindset, and neither do my doctors, the medical professions and my consultant who know my whole medical history and who strongly support me for gender reassignment.

Now can we please get back to the original subject of this thread which is about 'crossdressing'?




LadyPact -> RE: cross-dressing (7/16/2007 12:52:53 PM)

Around the world and back again for the thread, eh?  Not going to say it hasn't been an interesting trip.  Hope nobody minds if I do a bit of both as far as where it's been and where it's going.
 
Being one of the ignorant, and that is a phrase I don't mind using about Myself on the topic (We can't all possibly know everything about every subject on the planet, now can We?), I think the way the thread has spirialed does go back to My original thinking.  The thing is, I'm just not attracted to women.  I'm not saying that clothes change the person.  What I'm saying is perhaps even the facade of a woman ends My attraction for a man.  In that place, I don't see that person as a man, I see that person as a woman, and being straight, that does nothing for Me in a sexually arousing sense.
 
I hate to use Stella as the example here, but she's the one who's been the most active on the thread, so I'm going to do it anyway.  (My apologies in advance, Stella.  I hope you won't mind.)  Very much like she's said repeatedly, the genetalia doesn't have anything to do with it.  From My very limited contact here, My perspective is that she is a woman.  I see her as a woman, refer to her in the female, and in My mind, she just plain is female.  The thing is, I'm just not seeking a female submissive.
 
That doesn't mean that I would close a person out of My life?  No, but I would have that person in a different role in My life.  Friendships, shopping buddies, hell yeah!  Actually, from My limited exposure to males who dress, I find most of them have impeccable taste.  Also, they do happen to make great friends, which might go back to a lot of people who don't accept them in general.  Not to play therapist or evalute anyone, but it would make sense that, if they do run into such barriers of not being accepted, that when they find those that do even on friendship levels, they might want those that do accept them to stick around.
 
My thanks to those who are participating on this thread.  Nothing wrong with learning a little something.




DollysSissyGirl -> RE: cross-dressing (7/16/2007 5:56:48 PM)

That is great that you have something to be passionate about. The lifestyle, just as that in life itself, has many variations. I am living proof that you can find an absolutely perfect union with a domme to share both your passions as one. My domme does not always enjoy the same fetishes that excite me. In the same instance she is caring and loving enough to allow me to partake in avenues of the lifestyle that elate me. Do not worry, there will come a time when you will meet "the one" that fulfills your mind, heart, body and soul and shares with you in every passion most importantly that of understanding.





planomaid -> RE: cross-dressing (7/16/2007 6:25:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I have a follow up question to those who do cross dress and say it isn't a comment on women.

Could you be submissive if you were not crossed dressed or do you feel that you need the cross dressing to help you feel submissive?

If it helps you feel submissive can you then understand why some of us feel that it is a commentary on gender roles?


1) For me crossdressing and submission are both intertwined and seperate.  I can do one without the other, but invaribly they both lead back to the same place.  Like many other things, the accompanying feelings and emotions that are experienced by doing it vary with whatever else is going on at the time.  

2) Yes, I think I understand how women can see it as less than complimentary towards their gender.  I for one have never seen gender as the primary determining factor whether one is dominant or submissive.  I do believe that gender does play a role, though how large a role is debatable.  So many other things impact the forming and shaping of a person, its difficult to quantify which has the most impact.  

I think one also has to define (for the sake of a debate) how a person defines their submission.  Seeing a large muscled man kneeling in submission to a petite and overtly feminine woman might see same strange to some. How can it be, they ask, that this man who could snap this woman in two is submitting? Why isn't he the dominant? He's bigger, stronger, and can easily overpower and force the woman to do his bidding.  In such an example submission has nothing to do with gender, but the desired role that each person has chosen. Perhaps this man feels more comfortable wearing a tutu while the woman wears a ballgown.  Is the clothing defining their roles? (shrug) Perhaps. I think that the answer is best left up to the individuals.

I think it's fair to ask the ladies as well - do the trapping of feminity interfere with your being a domme?  Can you feel domme dressed in boxers and a wifebeater, no makeup and unshaved legs? Or does your desire and need to be dominant come from somewhere inside of you, and is not tied to your femaleness? Hmm, a androgynous dominant.

(yes, i oversimplified and generalized, but its an example).




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