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RE: Love within Authority Dynamics - 7/9/2007 7:24:24 AM

Ayanaev717

Posts: 72
Status: offline

For me love is based on three conditions: intimacy, passion, and commitment. Can you have love without the three, sure, but I believe it would not be considered true love. It may be passionate, it may be practical love, or it may be fantasy.

In D/s, I think it is hard to really establish these three conditions without problems. The submissive who wants to serve and is in love may begin to have expectations of the relationship that the Dominant may not be willing to give. Especially if it is not in the "contract." Or the Dominant may find themselves lost within the confines of love and allowing the submissive to get away with things that they normally would not. This cause real problems in poly-homes such as jealousy, manipulation, and deviance.

However, I do think it is possible. I know couples who are into D/s and are happily married. But I believe from my knowledge, that they were either in the relationship first and moved in D/s or there was always an interest and the finally found the fit through D/s.

I do believe in self-awareness, self-concept, and self- actualization as well. As we become more intuned with ourselves, we also become more aware of our needs, our desires, and most definitely what we want in and out of a relationship. There's a saying, "you have truly lived until you loved, married, and divorced and done all three in that order." Meaning you learn so much about yourself through your trials that suddenly you start to understand who you are from where you are. That includes who you love as well.

Always,

A

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 21

RE: Love within Authority Dynamics - 7/9/2007 7:37:03 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wwwkevinww
and if you want to say you love them, but don't try to tell me you have romantic all consuming love and it grows every day with 3 women.......

I'm not trying to tell you, I AM telling you.

You can either tell me I'm wrong, lying to myself and my partners. Or that I know myself and my experiences of myself.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to wwwkevinww)

Post #: 22

RE: Love within Authority Dynamics - 7/9/2007 7:40:15 AM

wwwkevinww

Posts: 276
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather

quote:

ORIGINAL: wwwkevinww

I'm not talking generic bullshit, I'm talking pyschological fact

Psychological fact? I dont even begin to know what that means. Could you please explain?

quote:

you can love the person your with, but which one of 3 are you thinking about when you with just one of them, because the romantic type of love I was talking about is all consuming....

That's called "infatuation".

quote:

I don't have a problem with pologomy, and if you want to say you love them, but don't try to tell me you have romantic all consuming love and it grows every day with 3 women.......

Again, that's not love. That's infatuation. I think this comes down to a matter of definition, your definition of "love" being different than, well, everyone else who is posting here.

there is a difference between infatuation, love, & romantic love. there is a difference between being "In Love" and just loving someone.....there is a difference between conditional love and unconditional love..........

"In Love" implies romantic love....and almost always is conditional.....you do have some basic decisions on what you like and what you don't, what you find attractive and what you don't.....

some of what I have said is my opinion, its not all factual....really the only few facts I have stated are with regard to romantic love and the time frame it can last and maybe one other fact.

My memory on infatuation defnition and the romantic love is hazy at best, and I would hate to misquote something that I'm uncertain of. vaguely I can recall the article saying that the difference is only after the fact, you can try to say later that you really were just infatuated, not really "in love", or it was just puppy love.....

after the romantic love phase of a relationship you can move into unconditional love and other actually different type of feelings.

The article also said this is a good thing because the romantic love or "in love" really isn't a healthy state because your too "obsessed" about the other person and you sleep less and work less effectively while in this state....

I'm not saying the OP doens't have love (more like compassion) for his three women, but its not romantic love....at least not unless he has known one of them for less than 18 months.....

when he says he loves them more and more, I just don't get it, you are blowing smoke.....you can have unconditional love, and yes, you can love someone more than someone else.....but you can only love 100%, you can only work 100%, there are only so many hours in a day, and you logically are under self-delusion if you believe love grows over time limitlessly.....

(in reply to justheather)

Post #: 23

RE: Love within Authority Dynamics - 7/9/2007 7:45:40 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wwwkevinww
when he says he loves them more and more, I just don't get it, you are blowing smoke.....you can have unconditional love, and yes, you can love someone more than someone else.....but you can only love 100%, you can only work 100%, there are only so many hours in a day, and you logically are under self-delusion if you believe love grows over time limitlessly.....

I think you are confusing love with relationships.

All healthy relationships are conditional. That doesn't mean that love is.

Love isn't limited by time or space- only EXPRESSIONS of love. Love isn't a pie you dole out to one person at a time, or have to divvy up into slices.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to wwwkevinww)

Post #: 24

RE: Love within Authority Dynamics - 7/9/2007 7:49:24 AM

justheather

Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wwwkevinww

when he says he loves them more and more, I just don't get it, you are blowing smoke.....you can have unconditional love, and yes, you can love someone more than someone else.....but you can only love 100%, you can only work 100%, there are only so many hours in a day, and you logically are under self-delusion if you believe love grows over time limitlessly.....

Maybe you would be better served to stop the above sentence at "I just dont get it".

Love is not something that I am able to express in percentages, so you and I might have a conversation about love inwhich I say "I just dont get it"...and that would be ok. But to say "Your statements about love are false based on my experiences and understanding of love" well, that's not the same thing as saying "I dont understand your experience of love".

If the paradigm works for you, really works, well, so be it, but as for me, I imagine it would be awfully lonely to exist in a world where anyone who experiences and expresses abstract concepts differently than I do is delusional.

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to wwwkevinww)

Post #: 25

RE: Love within Authority Dynamics - 7/9/2007 7:49:28 AM

wwwkevinww

Posts: 276
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: wwwkevinww
and if you want to say you love them, but don't try to tell me you have romantic all consuming love and it grows every day with 3 women.......

I'm not trying to tell you, I AM telling you.

You can either tell me I'm wrong, lying to myself and my partners. Or that I know myself and my experiences of myself.

I'm not going to say your wrong. I'm going to say your deluding yourself and your definitions are wrong.....

people say stuff ( especially in forums) without really knowing what they are talking about...

you are in a timeshare with your feelings, switching between the next one are with at the time.....you might all get along and everything is hunky dorry, but you're kidding yourself if you think you have all encompassiing romantic love with more than one person......you might be giving each one 33%, but you cannot give each one 100%.....you can give your children all your love, and its not the same thing, you can have unconditional love for children and also with your lovers, loving them for who they are, but you cannot be in romantic love with more than one person at a time......its not possible....

theoretically its possible to love different people for different reasons ( they are different and not the same), but when you focus on the person and feel the emotion and actually focus on what you love about them, you are not focusing on the other people. (time sharing)......

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 26

RE: Love within Authority Dynamics - 7/9/2007 7:50:26 AM

justheather

Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wwwkevinww

people say stuff ( especially in forums) without really knowing what they are talking about...

Mmmhmmmm.
That, they do.

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to wwwkevinww)

Post #: 27

RE: Love within Authority Dynamics - 7/9/2007 7:51:31 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

people say stuff ( especially in forums) without really knowing what they are talking about...

Mmmhmmmm.
That, they do.

Ya think so?

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to justheather)

Post #: 28

RE: Love within Authority Dynamics - 7/9/2007 7:54:04 AM

wwwkevinww

Posts: 276
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather

quote:

ORIGINAL: wwwkevinww

when he says he loves them more and more, I just don't get it, you are blowing smoke.....you can have unconditional love, and yes, you can love someone more than someone else.....but you can only love 100%, you can only work 100%, there are only so many hours in a day, and you logically are under self-delusion if you believe love grows over time limitlessly.....

Maybe you would be better served to stop the above sentence at "I just dont get it".

Love is not something that I am able to express in percentages, so you and I might have a conversation about love inwhich I say "I just dont get it"...and that would be ok. But to say "Your statements about love are false based on my experiences and understanding of love" well, that's not the same thing as saying "I dont understand your experience of love".

If the paradigm works for you, really works, well, so be it, but as for me, I imagine it would be awfully lonely to exist in a world where anyone who experiences and expresses abstract concepts differently than I do is delusional.

I find it amusing that while someone is spouting about how they are trying to achieve self-actualization, and think they are loving more and more, you force me into saying this is delusional when I was trying to be more diplomatic.........

(in reply to justheather)

Post #: 29

RE: Love within Authority Dynamics - 7/9/2007 7:58:00 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wwwkevinww

when he says he loves them more and more, I just don't get it, you are blowing smoke.....you can have unconditional love, and yes, you can love someone more than someone else.....but you can only love 100%, you can only work 100%, there are only so many hours in a day, and you logically are under self-delusion if you believe love grows over time limitlessly.....

Of course you don't get it.. that is rather obvious...

But I am curious... do you have someone in your life? Do you have an intimate partner? Have you had one... two three? Just what exactly is your experience in maintaining and growing a loving relationship say 5 or 10 years.. or about 15 or maybe even 20 years that I am approaching with Alandra. And, what is your experience of actually Loving two people at once.. not brother or sister... but two individuals that your are deeply and romantically in love with. Been that way for me with Alandra and Kyra for over 2 years now... I think we past your 18 month line... Maybe I am freak....

Either way.. I have laugh that you are trying to refer to some Article that you vaguely remember. I think it rather obvious that you have but a vague understanding of the issues involved... I suggest that before you attempt to speak with authority on something that you vaguely know... you might want to do some deeper reading since it appears you have no actual experience to contribute. Unless you enjoy looking like a fool

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to wwwkevinww)

Post #: 30

RE: Love within Authority Dynamics - 7/9/2007 7:58:02 AM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline

KOM,

I enjoyed your discourse and agree with it. One question however, do they have exclusivity with you while you provide none with them? Or are you content with the group you have and no longer seek others? I've always been curious about that :)

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 31

RE: Love within Authority Dynamics - 7/9/2007 8:00:49 AM

justheather

Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wwwkevinww

you force me into saying this is delusional when I was trying to be more diplomatic.........

I forced you? How did I do that, exactly?
Am I topping you now?
And me without my patent leather corset and thigh high boots.

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to wwwkevinww)

Post #: 32

RE: Love within Authority Dynamics - 7/9/2007 8:01:59 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather

quote:

ORIGINAL: wwwkevinww

people say stuff ( especially in forums) without really knowing what they are talking about...

Mmmhmmmm.
That, they do.

What's amazing is they are not even Vaguely aware that they know nothing of what they are talking

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to justheather)

Post #: 33

RE: Love within Authority Dynamics - 7/9/2007 8:02:17 AM

sublizzie

Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline

I think it's a good thing that you are a couple of states away. Keeps the gene pool in this area a little clearer.

_____________________________

"cooking is my kink"

Collared June 19, 2008
(uncollared 12/21/09 with his death. RIP my Santa)

(in reply to wwwkevinww)

Post #: 34

RE: Love within Authority Dynamics - 7/9/2007 8:04:35 AM

dawntreader

Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline

Absolutely beautiful KoM

i have said it before and will again and again...You and yours have an incredible dynamic...

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 35

RE: Love within Authority Dynamics - 7/9/2007 8:07:54 AM

sublizzie

Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline

KoM,

I just hope I find something similar sometime.

_____________________________

"cooking is my kink"

Collared June 19, 2008
(uncollared 12/21/09 with his death. RIP my Santa)

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 36

RE: Love within Authority Dynamics - 7/9/2007 8:10:31 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

KOM,

I enjoyed your discourse and agree with it. One question however, do they have exclusivity with you while you provide none with them? Or are you content with the group you have and no longer seek others? I've always been curious about that :)

We three are One... the One being the Relationship of the three us together. Anyone that comes into our life will in effect have to jump over three hurdles to become a part of our inner life. Thou, we are all open to the possibility... the reality is that it's not going to happen. I think we have a better chance of winning the lottery than having a person come into our life and connect with the three of us to level I expect. Not to say the person is not out there.. but... since I am not fishing ever pond.. We are not likely to catch her.

Having said that.. I am very content and happy with my girls. We also build on a outter circle with our friends. In particular is Rob & Denika who is very close and apart of my lifestyle family. If there is a focus.. it will be building on this extended lifestyle.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 37

RE: Love within Authority Dynamics - 7/9/2007 8:12:22 AM

wwwkevinww

Posts: 276
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ayanaev717

For me love is based on three conditions: intimacy, passion, and commitment. Can you have love without the three, sure, but I believe it would not be considered true love. It may be passionate, it may be practical love, or it may be fantasy.

In D/s, I think it is hard to really establish these three conditions without problems. The submissive who wants to serve and is in love may begin to have expectations of the relationship that the Dominant may not be willing to give. Especially if it is not in the "contract." Or the Dominant may find themselves lost within the confines of love and allowing the submissive to get away with things that they normally would not. This cause real problems in poly-homes such as jealousy, manipulation, and deviance.

However, I do think it is possible. I know couples who are into D/s and are happily married. But I believe from my knowledge, that they were either in the relationship first and moved in D/s or there was always an interest and the finally found the fit through D/s.

I do believe in self-awareness, self-concept, and self- actualization as well. As we become more intuned with ourselves, we also become more aware of our needs, our desires, and most definitely what we want in and out of a relationship. There's a saying, "you have truly lived until you loved, married, and divorced and done all three in that order." Meaning you learn so much about yourself through your trials that suddenly you start to understand who you are from where you are. That includes who you love as well.

Always,

A

I agree with what your saying here. passion for me is a required component in any relationship. If I'm not involved in a serious commited relationship where trust and respect is mutual without the romantic component, I'm really just screwing around...passing the time.... Some people might prefer loveless no hugging or kissing, just beat the slave and throw them in a cage, but I'm not really a sadist and don't get pleasure in causing pain....I enjoy different sensations and mixxing pleasure and pain, because pain can add to pleasure (limited pain), but also don't think its healthy to over-do it, because pain slut training is possible to teach someone to enjoy pain as pleasure. Mix the two, increase pain, less pleasure, until they are trained to expect the pleasure and receive pleasure from the pain just like pavlov's dogs, behavior training with stimulus, ringing bell for food causes saliva....

(in reply to Ayanaev717)

Post #: 38

RE: Love within Authority Dynamics - 7/9/2007 8:57:31 AM

wwwkevinww

Posts: 276
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: wwwkevinww

when he says he loves them more and more, I just don't get it, you are blowing smoke.....you can have unconditional love, and yes, you can love someone more than someone else.....but you can only love 100%, you can only work 100%, there are only so many hours in a day, and you logically are under self-delusion if you believe love grows over time limitlessly.....

Of course you don't get it.. that is rather obvious...

But I am curious... do you have someone in your life? Do you have an intimate partner? Have you had one... two three? Just what exactly is your experience in maintaining and growing a loving relationship say 5 or 10 years.. or about 15 or maybe even 20 years that I am approaching with Alandra. And, what is your experience of actually Loving two people at once.. not brother or sister... but two individuals that your are deeply and romantically in love with. Been that way for me with Alandra and Kyra for over 2 years now... I think we past your 18 month line... Maybe I am freak....

Either way.. I have laugh that you are trying to refer to some Article that you vaguely remember. I think it rather obvious that you have but a vague understanding of the issues involved... I suggest that before you attempt to speak with authority on something that you vaguely know... you might want to do some deeper reading since it appears you have no actual experience to contribute. Unless you enjoy looking like a fool

before I attempt to speak from authority? lol I'm not talking opinion, I'm talking facts...alot of what you said has value, your pologomy dynamic you got going is wierd, but whatever....if you and the people your with is happy, more power to you. I'm not trying to judge. Whether your delusional or not it hardly matters if your happy....

I just don't really understand your entire point.....why bother posting about love within authority dynamic? the entire point? what is your main motivation behind it....and I question you.....trying to be critical of me....my experiences are irrelavant...my opinions are irrelevant....

Are you trying to share your experience or brag about your experience? You are hardly trying to know me as much as call me a fool for not fitting into you idea of what is the appropriate path to enlightenment or "self actualization".

I choose a path of being alone rather than sharing, to be a hermit rather than "compromise". If so, is this path show you I have less of a grasp on text book facts on what love is....

There are a few facts you have shared, and I accept them for face value...you want to say your self-actualized, and that you are in a loving relationship for x number of years with 2 different women, fine. you want to say you have particular experience with how your dynamic works and went into some details, fine.

you want to spout your delusional belief that your love grows over time (it does sound better though than reality), more power to you. your not hurting anyone, and it does promote the dynamic your in.

But the reality is you didn't share any real facts about how you achieved self-actualization, no real facts about how anyone else can aceheve what you have, your just sitting around bragging, talking about your dynamic....

you want to talk about authority, but ask yourself do I care? what do I care about? facts? your opinions? Do you have anything to talk about with regard with Love within authority dynamics that actually says anything of value? Have you really talked about how to show love while still showing authority.....

I think it becomes clear what you have said is your experience and rudimentary facts you believe are true, but you haven't really told me anything I care about, besides you like to brag.....

I guess people don't want to think, people are mostly sheep and want to believe there is only one type of love.......

you can think what I have said here makes me a fool, I don't care about you're opinion, in all honesty....if you want to talk about anything that is thought provoking or makes someone wonder....or facts that relate to anyone besides your personal experience (did I mention I don't care?)......I'm going to step out of the convo, because I have stated what I wanted to....

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 39

RE: Love within Authority Dynamics - 7/9/2007 9:04:00 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

I'm not talking opinion, I'm talking facts...alot of what you said has value

Uhhh you actually haven't presented a single fact- except the fact of your opinions.

quote:

I'm not trying to judge. Whether your delusional or not it hardly matters if your happy....

You don't see telling people they are delusional, that what they say is their experience is actually not at all what's actually going on, and that what they say exists is impossible to exist as NOT judging?

quote:

Are you trying to share your experience or brag about your experience? You are hardly trying to know me as much as call me a fool for not fitting into you idea of what is the appropriate path to enlightenment or "self actualization".

Uh no, they are calling you a fool because you're saying stuff you don't know anything really about and acting like you know the answers even to the point of telling others they are delusional.

We're actually all fairly pro-monogamy. It's just not who we are.

quote:

But the reality is you didn't share any real facts about how you achieved self-actualization, no real facts about how anyone else can aceheve what you have, your just sitting around bragging, talking about your dynamic....

Well for me it's not about acheiving anything. I mean, does a heterosexual really self actualize being a heterosexual? Is there much to achieve there?

Knight's post was discussing openly his feelings about love within the authority dynamic. The polyamorous perspective is actually fairly irrelevant and only part of this discussion because Knight himself is polyamorous.

quote:

you want to talk about authority, but ask yourself do I care? what do I care about? facts? your opinions? Do you have anything to talk about with regard with Love within authority dynamics that actually says anything of value? Have you really talked about how to show love while still showing authority.....

LOL so he should ask you if you care about a thread before deciding to start one? If you didn't care, then why did you start reading and replying?

quote:

I guess people don't want to think, people are mostly sheep and want to believe there is only one type of love.......

That kinda sounds like YOU. None of us have said that there is one type of love- only that love is not limited by numbers.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to wwwkevinww)

Post #: 40

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