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RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 12:10:53 PM   
MistressSassy66


Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		I am not big on Protocols,though I like to have some sometimes.
What I dont care for is being told I have to have a Protocol.

I tried having some set in place and I am just too free of a spirit to
feel tied down to a Protocol...if that makes sense.

_____________________________

Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

(in reply to Elorin)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 12:15:10 PM   
HardnRuff


Posts: 213
Joined: 3/17/2007
Status: offline 		without any protocol at all how can there be any type of structure in a Ds ??

(in reply to Elorin)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 12:23:12 PM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardnRuff
without any protocol at all how can there be any type of structure in a Ds ??

Who said structure is fundamental to D/s? Protocol helps build structure, certainly. Not everyone finds it fundamental.

I know a sub whose entire protocol is summed up by this "I say, you do." It was written on a post it note by her Dom. The only contract she was ever gonna get. And they have a lovely relationship.

_____________________________

'cause when i look down /i just miss all the good stuff / when i look up / i just trip over things

(in reply to HardnRuff)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 12:26:04 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardnRuff

without any protocol at all how can there be any type of structure in a Ds ??


Structure of my relationship: Valyraen is in charge. I'm not.

I don't need any protocol to remember that.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to HardnRuff)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 12:32:50 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		I can completely understand and appreciate that what irritates is the idea that there are "The Protocols" that have to be followed.  I see protocols as the way I do something and in my relationship they are the way in which I can do things for him that he finds pleasing.  From my perspective many protocols are personal and should be tailored to the relationship.

I also know that I have a very broad opinion of what protocols are and the vast majority are not related to kink in anyway.  The way I fold my towels, set the table, fold my clothes, etc. are all personal protocols that I have learned and adapted over the years.  Then there are the protocols that are reinforced by society, saying please, thank you, standing in lines (as someone else mentioned), etc.

Thank you for all the feedback.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 12:38:53 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		LOL personally I wish people would follow VANILLA protocols- men should take hats off inside, gloves need to be removed before eating, all of those manners/niceties/formalities/protocols I really place high in my life. 

So while I'm all for them in public social situations (and that have nothing to do with orientation or lifestyle choices) because they help me define my boundaries and keep things civil, when it comes to personal relationship choices, it's not for me.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 12:45:10 PM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Vanilla protocols are considered etiquette.
Protocols, etiquette, and ritual are terms that are sometimes used interchangeably but actually have distinct meanings.

If a group says "don't touch subs without their owner's permission" as a party rule, that's a group etiquette. But etiquette includes being able to follow the rules when they change with different areas. Which means accepting that if you take your sub to a party that is "all subs are free grope opportunities" that your sub will be groped (or not going if you don't want her to be). Not trying to force everyone at the party to leave your sub alone because your personal values differ from the group.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do - but Rome is where the Romans define the rules. Not when they are visiting Paris.

_____________________________

'cause when i look down /i just miss all the good stuff / when i look up / i just trip over things

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 12:53:45 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

men should take hats off inside,


For me it not so much taking the Hat off when inside... which generally I do...

But it is taking the hat off when sitting at the table.   I find it extremely annoying when I sit in a Restaurant and men are wearing ball caps the like at the table... regardless of the place.  I appreciate it's their right and I am not one to push this view on them.  However, it doesn't change the fact that If I had the authority.. the hats would be off.  This view actually orginates from my Dad.  Table manners are pretty important to him.  It didn't matter who the person was... you sat at his Table.. hats came off.  First time you where asked... second time.. he took it off!  NO one made that mistake twice!

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 7/9/2007 12:54:52 PM >

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 12:57:20 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		Most restaurants don't have hat check rooms anymore. A baseball cap can be stuffed into a pocket but an expensive 20X Western hat needs to be put someplace safe. Which doesn't mean on the floor.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 1:03:01 PM   
HardnRuff


Posts: 213
Joined: 3/17/2007
Status: offline 		For Me , in a Ms relation there definately has to be structure and consistency.. she has to have the structure  in the form of knowing what I expect from her on a daily basis .. And I have to be consistent in enforcing what My rules are .. If I were to let her get by with something one day and not the next then I see that as very confusing to her and she would def try to push Me harder to try and see just what all she could get by with.... again this goes back to the nothing is set in stone rule .. this is just what works for Me and Mine .. so I can see your point about it not being fundamental to all.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 1:11:57 PM   
Calandra


Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline 		I love the word and the ideals behind it. I wouldn't ever be able to accept someone (as a friend, lover, or sub/slave) who didn't at least respect My feelings about protocols.


_____________________________

Lady Kathryn
Athens, Ga.
House of Phoenix

"Nothing is ever final until you're dead - and even then I'm sure God negotiates" Anjelica Huston in Everafter

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 1:16:15 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardnRuff

For Me , in a Ms relation there definately has to be structure and consistency.. she has to have the structure  in the form of knowing what I expect from her on a daily basis .. And I have to be consistent in enforcing what My rules are .. If I were to let her get by with something one day and not the next then I see that as very confusing to her and she would def try to push Me harder to try and see just what all she could get by with.... again this goes back to the nothing is set in stone rule .. this is just what works for Me and Mine .. so I can see your point about it not being fundamental to all.


But what does structure and consistency have to do with protocol? I don't mean to be rude, I just don't see the connection.

Valyraen is always in charge and his rules don't change. The rewards and punishments for them only change if the situation requires it, ie. being rewarded more then usual if outside factors made a task more complex then it would be normally or being punished less if outside factors made the task I failed at much more difficult or impossible.

I suppose one could call making Valyraen's sandwich the way he likes it or his hot chocolate the way he likes a protocol. I just don't think of it that way.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 7/9/2007 1:26:25 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to HardnRuff)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 1:19:25 PM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline 		kyra,

I also note the negative comments re the subject. The ones that do not follow it or feel a need to do so just react that way.

For myself and those that relate to me, understand and practice protocols.

CP

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 1:37:44 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

Most restaurants don't have hat check rooms anymore. A baseball cap can be stuffed into a pocket but an expensive 20X Western hat needs to be put someplace safe. Which doesn't mean on the floor.


well... I often wear a Beaver Felt Fedora or my Leather Fedora and never have a problem finding a place to put it..... even if that means getting another chair just for the hat. 

Just because hat check doesn't exist is not a reason not to take off the hat.  If a person doesn't want to... well they say so.. and not give some lame excuse of no hat checks...  I can respect a person that is doing their own thing.. I can't respect lame excuses

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 1:56:24 PM   
HardnRuff


Posts: 213
Joined: 3/17/2007
Status: offline 		Acquatic sub .. I am just saying that the protocol I have set for her needs to be consistent .. if shes not to look into My eyes until given permission if shes not to  greet me until I greet her for example in protocol .. how can that be enforced with No consistency ???

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 2:01:52 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardnRuff

Acquatic sub .. I am just saying that the protocol I have set for her needs to be consistent .. if shes not to look into My eyes until given permission if shes not to  greet me until I greet her for example in protocol .. how can that be enforced with No consistency ???


Well yeah. No one is saying that protocol shouldn't be consistent if a couple chooses to use it.

I don't really have protocol, though I have rules and those things don't change. I guess I just wonder why you associated protocol with consistency and structure when you asked how you can have those things without protocol. You can very easily.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to HardnRuff)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 2:04:32 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

I don't really have protocol, though I have rules and those things don't change.


I'm sorry, but I don't understand how you distinguish between protocol and rules.  Would you mind explaining for me?
 
John

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"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 2:15:45 PM   
HardnRuff


Posts: 213
Joined: 3/17/2007
Status: offline 		I agree with John aka Rover here please explain your defintion of the two aquatic??.. Is the protocol that we have established not the rules that I have set for her ??

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 2:16:10 PM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
pro·to·col       (prō'tə-kôl', -kōl', -kŏl')  Pronunciation Key  n.  
  • The forms of ceremony and etiquette observed by diplomats and heads of state.
  • A code of correct conduct: safety protocols; academic protocol.
  • The first copy of a treaty or other such document before its ratification.
  • A preliminary draft or record of a transaction.
  • The plan for a course of medical treatment or for a scientific experiment.
  • Computer Science A standard procedure for regulating data transmission between computers.
      American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
      rule       (rōōl)  Pronunciation Key  n.  
    1. Governing power or its possession or use; authority.
    2. The duration of such power.
    3. An authoritative, prescribed direction for conduct, especially one of the regulations governing procedure in a legislative body or a regulation observed by the players in a game, sport, or contest.
    4. The body of regulations prescribed by the founder of a religious order for governing the conduct of its members.
    5. A court order limited in application to a specific case.
    6. A subordinate regulation governing a particular matter.
    7. An authoritative, prescribed direction for conduct, especially one of the regulations governing procedure in a legislative body or a regulation observed by the players in a game, sport, or contest.
    8. The body of regulations prescribed by the founder of a religious order for governing the conduct of its members.
    9. A court order limited in application to a specific case.
    10. A subordinate regulation governing a particular matter.
    11. A usual, customary, or generalized course of action or behavior: "The rule of life in the defense bar ordinarily is to go along and get along" (Scott Turow).
    12. A generalized statement that describes what is true in most or all cases: In this office, hard work is the rule, not the exception.
    13. Mathematics A standard method or procedure for solving a class of problems.
    14. Law
    15. A court order limited in application to a specific case.
    16. A subordinate regulation governing a particular matter.
       
      ~edited to get rid of whitespace~

      < Message edited by Elorin -- 7/9/2007 2:20:58 PM >

      _____________________________

      'cause when i look down /i just miss all the good stuff / when i look up / i just trip over things

      (in reply to Rover)
      17. Profile   Post #: 39
      RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 2:19:35 PM   
      Elorin


      Posts: 970
      Joined: 8/22/2004
      From: San Antonio, TX
      Status: offline       		I most always see "protocol" as a more formalized subset of rules.
      Sir's rules say "always shave before you see me on Wednesday and Saturdays." I don't have a protocol of shaving before I see him, as I might see him other than those "set" days. I do have a rule to follow.

      Sir's rules say "ask for permission before getting into M's bed." I don't have to ask permission before getting into bed, just his bed. I see that as a protocol.

      "Kneel when I say so." is a rule. So is "walk on the side of me that is farthest from traffic."
      "Kneel before entering my home" seems more like a protocol, as does "curtsy when meeting someone new."

      I see a distinction between the two, and I think I see Aquatic's point, but it's a fussy thing to distinguish between.


      _____________________________

      'cause when i look down /i just miss all the good stuff / when i look up / i just trip over things

      (in reply to Elorin)
      Profile   Post #: 40
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