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RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 4:23:20 PM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elorin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Don't protocols such as kneeling in front of a Dominant have a very practical purpose of reinforcing the power exchange?  Maybe even the practical purpose of assisting in the transition from the hectic workday, to a calmer head space associated with home and a fulfilling relationship?
 
Those seem like practical purposes to me.


I think that reinforcing the power exchange is a purpose but not a practical one in the way Najakcharmer mentioned, or the example I gave. The purposes you list are certainly purposes, and they are certainly clear cut purposes, but they are not practical in the way of the examples given.


How do you distinguish between practical and impractical?  It seems rather capricious and arbitrary.
 
John


It is rather arbitary, because what is practical for a person is rather personal.

It is not practical to have me kneel for extended periods of time because of my knees. It is practical to remove my shoes so that the carpet doesn't get muddy. It is not actually practical to have me come downstairs and get him a soda when he is on the couch, 10 feet from the fridge. It's a waste of energy from a techinical point of view, though one could say it enforces my submission.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 7/9/2007 4:27:55 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 4:27:55 PM   
Najakcharmer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover
Don't protocols such as kneeling in front of a Dominant have a very practical purpose of reinforcing the power exchange?  Maybe even the practical purpose of assisting in the transition from the hectic workday, to a calmer head space associated with home and a fulfilling relationship?
 
Those seem like practical purposes to me.


Some protocols can have more than one purpose, of course.  If part of the reason for establishing a protocol such as "the submissive will always kneel when s/he enters the dominant's bedroom" is to assist the transition away from hectic work mindset and into the calm embrace of a loving and secure D/s relationship, then it certainly is practical.  It also makes two people feel good in their relationship. 

I've noticed people mentioning the difference between rules and protocol, and I'm not really sure there is one that fits universally.  I've always internalized what I do personally as safety protocol rather than safety rules, because in my work environment, I'm actually the expert who gets to make those judgement calls.  I don't think of it as "rules" because I'm not answering to anyone but myself.  I do think of it as workplace safety protocol.  YMMV.



(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 4:39:56 PM   
Elorin


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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover
How do you distinguish between practical and impractical?  It seems rather capricious and arbitrary.

I think you'll find most things in relationships to be capricious and arbitrary.
When it comes to service, something practical is something I need done, which serves a purpose that can be measured, that isn't just luxury.
With rules it is something that has a reason that can be pointed to. I can't point to making myself feel more submissive or dominant.  I can point to a dirty carpet or an injury that was caused by not following a rule.
To me, protocols aren't "impractical" versus "practical", but rather "luxury" versus "practicality."

What is practical for you may be very different than what is practical for me. Why does it matter how I distinguish it? I'm not creating the protocols in  your life, I'm creating the ones in mine.

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 4:48:34 PM   
kyraofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Until this thread, I've never heard the term protocol being applied to anything other then dom/sub interactions


I think the first time that I attached the word protocol to required behavior was during 5 star dining when I had a catering job.  This was my first exposure to formal protocols of any kind. 

Once I associated the word with my behavior, I realized much in my life was a protocol.  Some were more formal than others but it was a way that I was supposed to behave given a certain circumstance.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 5:11:46 PM   
Rover


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elorin
Why does it matter how I distinguish it? I'm not creating the protocols in  your life, I'm creating the ones in mine.


Because if we didn't talk about the things we do differently, and share amongst ourselves, these boards would quickly degenerate into endless threads of "yeah, I agree" and "me too".  Some people may need that validation, but I suspect most would simply find it boring.
 
Thanks for your reply, I enjoyed reading it.
 
John

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Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Elorin)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 5:18:01 PM   
sublimelysensual


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I used to hate it, but then I had a really awesome mentor type friend in a neighorbing city realign my perspective one night during a conversation.

People automatically associate it with strict rules or military type structure or something confining.

I dont view it as any, but rather as something that is a tool to make my life easier as a dominant.

Protocols to me are simply how things are done in the relationships.

I like my coffee a certain way every morning. I dont want to have to tell my submissive or slave how to make it every single morning so I say "This is how I want my coffee every single morning."

Thats a protocol. Simple as that. We use protocols all the time, but most people just simply dont call what they are doing protocols.

Someone asked the difference between rules and protocols and rules to me are "what you are not going to do" while protocols are the "how you are going to do it"

If I say "You will not spill my coffee", thats a rule. If I say "You will make my coffee a certain way.", then thats a protocol.

Rules determine boundaries and protocols provide direction so I dont have to constantly stand over someone's shoulder every single day to get things according to my personal preference.


This echoes my thoughts. Great post, MadRabbit...
 
-a

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(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 5:20:13 PM   
salilus


Posts: 201
Joined: 5/18/2007
Status: offline 		The protocol Daddy requires from me is lovely.

Everyone else's protocol is just that: everyone else's protocol.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 5:44:52 PM   
HardnRuff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: salilus

The protocol Daddy requires from me is lovely.

Everyone else's protocol is just that: everyone else's protocol.

Again , a very nice statement indeed , I can only go by My protocol. I cant judge yours.

(in reply to salilus)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 5:54:27 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardnRuff

. I cant judge yours.


and why not?  what stops you? 

I think we judge others all the time.  I think it's absolutely ridiculus the the MooseHead Lodge Brothers Club have greeting protocal were they grab their groin turn around once and crow like a rooster.  That's my judgement! and I am sticking too it...

Of course that is my judgement as it would relate to applying it to my life.. and franky you want to look ridiculus.. join the Lodge and will defend your right to do so... even thou I think the whole thing is foolish.  I respect your right to make your own choices for you.  Infact... if you don't do it because of what others might think and this prevents you from enjoying your relationships.. then I will judge you as even a bigger idiot for not joing the lodge.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to HardnRuff)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 6:15:04 PM   
Elorin


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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover
Because if we didn't talk about the things we do differently, and share amongst ourselves, these boards would quickly degenerate into endless threads of "yeah, I agree" and "me too".  Some people may need that validation, but I suspect most would simply find it boring.

Please pardon my bitchy-semibitchy reply. I'm finding myself feeling judged and criticized when it isn't intended recently. When I read the line about arbitrariness I knee-jerked.

_____________________________

'cause when i look down /i just miss all the good stuff / when i look up / i just trip over things

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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 6:23:20 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		i enjoy protocal, ritual and rules.  They give me focus and when i perform them well i enjoy the way it pleases my dom.   It enhances the overall feeling of submission - certain rituals do anyway.  It feels good to know what's expected of you.  i get a secure and safe feeling from that.  i wouldn't want so much protocal that it was stifling but enough to keep me in that sublime state of mind

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 6:26:45 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

Whenever a thread is started asking about protocols there seems to be a negative reaction from many about this word.  To me a protocol is a particular behavior that is carried out given a particular set of circumstances.  An example from my life is that when he returns home he is met at the door and greeted. 

What is your gut reaction to this word?  Do you like it/hate it and why?

Knight's Kyra
I have not read the whole thread..however as a nurse I live by protocols..it simply is a given set of orders to be inacted in a given situation..not good nor bad..but I actually find it comforting in a lot of ways as it takes the guess work and angst out of a whole manner of things....Tempting

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I have greatly enjoyed the second blooming...suddenly you find at the age of 50, that a whole new life has opened before you.........Agatha Christie.

You must make tracks into the unknown~~Thoreau

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 6:31:25 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

I have not read the whole thread..however as a nurse I live by protocols..it simply is a given set of orders to be inacted in a given situation..not good nor bad..but I actually find it comforting in a lot of ways as it takes the guess work and angst out of a whole manner of things....Tempting


I feel comforted too.... hate to be having a heart attack and the nurse decides to give me an enema.  Rather she try something more appropriate

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 6:41:22 PM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		I uploaded an article I wrote 3 years ago on high protocol to my ~still under construction~ website if anyone would like to read it.
Upon reviewing portions of it (I didn't read it all just pasted it into the current template and uploaded), I find myself to be both pedantic and arrogant. Wow, if I seem that way to myself, three years ago to now, how did I come across then and how do I come across now?
Apologies for being a pedant...

~E

http://www.mselorin.com/protocol.html


_____________________________

'cause when i look down /i just miss all the good stuff / when i look up / i just trip over things

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 6:41:59 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

I have not read the whole thread..however as a nurse I live by protocols..it simply is a given set of orders to be inacted in a given situation..not good nor bad..but I actually find it comforting in a lot of ways as it takes the guess work and angst out of a whole manner of things....Tempting


I feel comforted too.... hate to be having a heart attack and the nurse decides to give me an enema.  Rather she try something more appropriate
LOL...sighs...cant we do both???...Tempting

_____________________________

I have greatly enjoyed the second blooming...suddenly you find at the age of 50, that a whole new life has opened before you.........Agatha Christie.

You must make tracks into the unknown~~Thoreau

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 7:01:53 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardnRuff

. I cant judge yours.


and why not?  what stops you? 

I think we judge others all the time.  I think it's absolutely ridiculus the the MooseHead Lodge Brothers Club have greeting protocal were they grab their groin turn around once and crow like a rooster.  That's my judgement! and I am sticking too it...

Of course that is my judgement as it would relate to applying it to my life.. and franky you want to look ridiculus.. join the Lodge and will defend your right to do so... even thou I think the whole thing is foolish.  I respect your right to make your own choices for you.  Infact... if you don't do it because of what others might think and this prevents you from enjoying your relationships.. then I will judge you as even a bigger idiot for not joing the lodge.


Several observations:
 
1.  Thank you for helping to dispell the idiotic notion that we should not judge!!  It's an utter fantasy.
 
2.  You were sworn to an oath secrecy by the MooseHead Lodge Brothers Club, and for revealing our traditional greeting see that you're tarred and feathered.
 
3.  Excellent point regarding the rejection of peer pressure.
 
John

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"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 7:04:05 PM   
Rover


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elorin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover
Because if we didn't talk about the things we do differently, and share amongst ourselves, these boards would quickly degenerate into endless threads of "yeah, I agree" and "me too".  Some people may need that validation, but I suspect most would simply find it boring.

Please pardon my bitchy-semibitchy reply. I'm finding myself feeling judged and criticized when it isn't intended recently. When I read the line about arbitrariness I knee-jerked.


It's perfectly acceptable to say that you do things that are arbitrary, based solely upon your personal pleasure.  See Knight's comments regarding the rejection of peer pressure.  Presumably we're all "in it" for our own gratification.
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Elorin)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 7:17:52 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

2.  You were sworn to an oath secrecy by the MooseHead Lodge Brothers Club, and for revealing our traditional greeting see that you're tarred and feathered.
 


SHIT

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Protocol - 7/9/2007 8:56:40 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardnRuff

Until this thread, I've never heard the term protocol being applied to anything other then dom/sub interactions, such as kneeling on rice..... that would be defined to Me as punishment for a given offense not protocol by far.


Not sure where you got your information from, but a couple of protocols from my life include the proper procedures for disposing of classified information AND hooking up a static bracelet to my arm before touching computer hardware.

Just me, etc.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to HardnRuff)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Protocol - 7/10/2007 4:20:04 PM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
Not sure where you got your information from, but a couple of protocols from my life include the proper procedures for disposing of classified information...


Sinergy, you can't fool me, you outed Valerie Plame :).

Now onto my serious points.

I alter my demand for protocol and the actual protocols depending on the stage the relationship is in. I embarked on a journey with Chain a few years ago and I had extensive rituals that I made her follow to establish my authority in a concrete way. Each time we met, she was required to kneel, face to the floor, put her forehead on my shoe and say a slave vow I had written for her. I always gave her a weekly hard six lashes with a crop before she was warmed up for play. A maintenance 6.

She may get many more than 6 these days, but it is not part of a ritual. The command I have over her is established and we both know she will take a merciless whipping if it is deserved. On the other hand, we smile, laugh and are very ordinary with hugs and kisses for greetings now.

In the beginning I considered it necessary to see her being my slave and I wanted to reinforce to her that she was my slave through extensive protocol. There were other things that escape me, but that is because they didn’t continue as the relationship became firm. These days I see her on weekends usually and I play heavily into Master/slave protocol only during the scene to take advantage of our time and to work on our dynamic.

Something I’ve talked about on here before is that I have always required her to drink with her left hand, no matter where she is. This is an everyday life ritual that has a calming influence. It is awkward enough for her to do that it lessens any negative influence that may be present by forcing her to concentrate.  It reminds her that she is a slave even at the most stressful business lunch.

We also follow the socially accepted mores of D/s around others in the lifestyle, whether in person or online. For instance we capitalize Master, Dom and Sir, etc. We simply enjoy doing that because we both are privately proud of our lifestyle and relationship. Those social protocols are beneficial to us and to those around us. 

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You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 80
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