Lewcifer
Posts: 126
Joined: 5/22/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: teamnoir
... "manipulation" is one of those words like "violence" where there are two distinct but common testing criterion. For some people, "violence" is simply rapid movement. For others, "violence" distinctly means someone gets harmed along with the rapid movement.
When someone uses a word, I assume the commonly accepted dictionary definition for same unless they care to clarify that they're changing the meaning of the word for their own purpose. If they're changing the meaning of a word to suit their own purpose, then we have failed to establish a common "language" with which to exchange thoughts.
Manipulation has the common meaning of controlling someone else against their will. No, it doesn't always mean this. It might sometimes simply mean skillful movement. But in the context we're discussing, whether actions have moral and/or ethical status, I believe that the "against someone's will" meaning is more relevant.
The common meaning of manipulation can be found in the dictionary. There is no need to attempt to redefine the word here, based on perceptions or context - perceptions always vary, and the dictionary already takes care of context. I would rather not assume that "against someone's will" is a more relevant meaning for the word, when an authoritative source (the dictionary) is available online.
My personal belief is that manipulation is not wrong. Rather, manipulation is what happens to me when I'm not minding my own needs and boundaries very well. Hence, if I'm being manipulated, then it's primarily my responsibility to do something about that. And the way that I do that is by building a better relationship with the part of myself which was in collusion with the manipulation.
Manipulation happens to you, regardless of conscious or unconscious process. My response to you has manipulated your thoughts in ways that you understand, and ways that you don't understand. You can't help but be manipulated by me each time you read one of my responses... sometimes to the point where you find yourself agreeing with me.
I read the original poster as asking if the behaviors were wrong, by way of asking if they were manipulative. In my opinion, we don't know enough about the original situation to know whether they were manipulative. We need to know the experience of the second person to make that judgment.
Asking if behaviors are wrong is different than asking if behaviors are manipulative. One has nothing to do with the other, and there is no correlation to be made. I do not wish to automatically assume that the original poster thought manipulation, in and of itself, was a negative thing - as doing so might possibly amount to undermining the original poster's intelligence and ability to reason.
As to whether the actions were wrong... I'm going to waffle on the moral judgment. I personally wouldn't enjoy them and I probably wouldn't stand for them for long. But that's me and I'm unwilling to indict anyone on the basis of just this info.
I'll stand on my prior points... manipulation is neither inherently bad nor good. It is simply a process. Only humans can ascribe good or bad qualities to it, based on how they use it. To ask if manipulation is bad is like asking if a butter knife is bad. When used to stab someone, it might be bad. When used to spread butter, it is the tool that it was designed to be. And so it goes with processes as well... they are neither good nor bad.
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I am fortunate... My wife is also My friend, lover and slave.
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RE: Manipulation... - 
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