RE: BDSM and the SCA (Full Version)

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Nosathro -> RE: BDSM and the SCA (7/12/2007 9:01:41 AM)

Okay..nothing is perfect.  I have my disagreements with SCA...they went to rattan rather than staying with live steel, which is why I am with Adria.  And there are some in SCA that really take the "Not Period" thing a bit too far.  But that is not to say I don't have friends in SCA, I still do.  I know some who met and married at SCA and Renaissance Faires.  After all the area was romantic, codes of Chivalry and Courtly love.   I am always amused in parades in my Ren Clothes as I bow to women who want to take my picture, blush.  At night in camp hearing the drum circle beat becomes hypnotic and women do get up and dance..and sing brawdy song only in my opinion, brings stronger desire amoung those attending.



bimbobethanie -> RE: BDSM and the SCA (7/12/2007 9:17:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: astro1347

quote:




I dunno, maybe there's a gamming store open late, Jenny Craig's might be good to...Comic-Con is here in a month or so, I know they're gonna be here in San Diego



SDCC is where I'll be in my pirate costume. I'm a pirate reenactor for renn faires and a member of a pirate reenactment troup. i will try to bring my cutlass.

If you see me say hi. red hair and mustache/goatee with green shirt and white pants and leather lace up boots.

bethanie



Alumbrado -> RE: BDSM and the SCA (7/12/2007 10:26:07 AM)

quote:

....And awfully full of yourself to think I was even responding to you.


Yeah, funny how that happens when you put my name in the quotes box, edit out half of what I said to change the meaning, and then pretend to rebut something  I never said.

.



Najakcharmer -> RE: BDSM and the SCA (7/12/2007 12:07:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: astro1347
That may all be well and good, if you want to pretend you're Shaharazad Queen of the Gypsies fine. My point, which maybe I didn't make clear, wasn't that they're just social mis-fits outta touch with reality, but that they rudely foist themselves on people that want nothing to do with them.


Who died and made you god of other people's fashion choices?

quote:

If you want to hear Speed Metal go to a Metal bar, if you want to wear leather and latex go to a BDSM bar, if you want to pretend you live in 16th century go to where ever it is others like you are. Just stay out of the Goth/BDSM bars.


I'm not a Goth (too much artsy death shit drama for me, thanks), but Goth bois in pretty clothes can be worth a second look.  The fashion choices of Goth culture do encompass medieval-esque fantasy, and the diversity of BDSM culture and fetish wear is something that should be encouraged rather than narrow-mindedly restricted to boring black leather of a single cut.

Now people who act like assholes and push their scenes in other people's faces are just assholes, whether they're dressed in drag, medieval gear, latex rubber or business suits.  But what someone wears on their own skin is very definitely their business.  Being the Fashion Police is just as assholish and rude as doing the elvish maiden dance in other people's personal space who don't want to play. 



ThinkingKitten -> RE: BDSM and the SCA (7/12/2007 2:31:18 PM)

Phew! My faith is minorly restored.
 
Wouldn't folks who like to present themselves as "Elven somethings" likely be LARP afficionados though, rather than SCA fans? 



Alumbrado -> RE: BDSM and the SCA (7/12/2007 2:58:31 PM)

At official SCA events the fantasy stuff is considered out of place.. at the parties, it isn't unheard of for the fake ears, or the floggers to come out.

And as mentioned above, there are groups such as Adrian Empire and Ampgaard who play by different rules... I suspect that some of the comments about Scadians are actually in reference to others.

And I've never seen any SCA event where cigarettes were considered 'not period' [;)]



astro1347 -> RE: BDSM and the SCA (7/12/2007 5:38:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: astro1347
That may all be well and good, if you want to pretend you're Shaharazad Queen of the Gypsies fine. My point, which maybe I didn't make clear, wasn't that they're just social mis-fits outta touch with reality, but that they rudely foist themselves on people that want nothing to do with them.


Who died and made you god of other people's fashion choices?

quote:

If you want to hear Speed Metal go to a Metal bar, if you want to wear leather and latex go to a BDSM bar, if you want to pretend you live in 16th century go to where ever it is others like you are. Just stay out of the Goth/BDSM bars.


I'm not a Goth (too much artsy death shit drama for me, thanks), but Goth bois in pretty clothes can be worth a second look.  The fashion choices of Goth culture do encompass medieval-esque fantasy, and the diversity of BDSM culture and fetish wear is something that should be encouraged rather than narrow-mindedly restricted to boring black leather of a single cut.

Now people who act like assholes and push their scenes in other people's faces are just assholes, whether they're dressed in drag, medieval gear, latex rubber or business suits.  But what someone wears on their own skin is very definitely their business.  Being the Fashion Police is just as assholish and rude as doing the elvish maiden dance in other people's personal space who don't want to play. 





Ok, maybe I'm stating the obvious but where in my entire silly rant did I ever say people shouldn't wear what they want? If you want to dress like a fucking 16th century idiot, fine, not my problem (of course don't complain when people treat you like a 21st century fucking idiot, and don't complain as others point and laugh). My problem was, and still is, the inappropriate attitude of the SCA folks that I've met time and time and time and time again showing up to BDSM clubs, acting like they own the place and treating everyone else at the club like they're invisible.

Inappropriate is inappropriate and this isn't a problem solely with the SCA people, it goes across the board as part of the dying culture of manners. It's as inappropriate to dress and play elvin maiden at a goth/BDSM club as it is to show up to a formal wedding in blue jeans, or a attend a funeral wearing shorts and flip flops, or show up to a business meeting in a soiled un-ironed shirt.

So again, you want to play D&D character, talk in a really bad English accent, go around saying "m'lord" and "forsooth" , show off you +2 flogger of submission and brag how you're a 7th level Dom with a ring of charms, fine knock yourself out, just take it somplace else.



Najakcharmer -> RE: BDSM and the SCA (7/12/2007 6:48:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: astro1347
Ok, maybe I'm stating the obvious but where in my entire silly rant did I ever say people shouldn't wear what they want?


When you appointed yourself Fashion Police of the goth/BDSM clubs. 


quote:

My problem was, and still is, the inappropriate attitude of the SCA folks that I've met time and time and time and time again showing up to BDSM clubs, acting like they own the place and treating everyone else at the club like they're invisible.


Asshole behavior is asshole behavior, no matter what someone is wearing.  But the behavior isn't necessarily attached to the clothing, though it can certainly be made more noticeable thereby.


quote:

It's as inappropriate to dress and play elvin maiden at a goth/BDSM club as it is to show up to a formal wedding in blue jeans, or a attend a funeral wearing shorts and flip flops, or show up to a business meeting in a soiled un-ironed shirt.


I think a lot of Goths might disagree with you about elvin maiden garb specifically.  Ever seen a Goth fashion website?  And I know a lot of BDSM folks don't agree with dress codes at events or feel that they are always appropriate.  At some events they are; at others they're really not, and diversity deserves to be respected. 

quote:

So again, you want to play D&D character, talk in a really bad English accent, go around saying "m'lord" and "forsooth" , show off you +2 flogger of submission and brag how you're a 7th level Dom with a ring of charms, fine knock yourself out, just take it somplace else.


Hmmf.  I'll have you know I'm a 10th level dominant with a +5 flogger and a cockring of charisma plus three.  [;)]



ThinkingKitten -> RE: BDSM and the SCA (7/12/2007 7:32:18 PM)

OK, would you cut me some slack if I say "m'lord" and "forsooth" or whatever, with a genuine English accent? [:)]



aidan -> RE: BDSM and the SCA (7/12/2007 9:31:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

Hmmf.  I'll have you know I'm a 10th level dominant with a +5 flogger and a cockring of charisma plus three.  [;)]


How many kobolds did you have to kill to find that? (Ha ha!...Table-top humor)

Anywho...

Somebody remind me...What is the prefered attire for a BDSM club now? Should I start leaving my kilt and my pirate fare at home? Dull monochromatic leather and rubber all around yes? And gods forbid it's in anything brighter than earth tones.

I participate in the BDSM world for the same reason I play Dungeons and Dragons, write, or do pretty much anything else...Because it's fun. Sometimes it's fun to wear nothing but a pair of tight leather shorts and a smile. Other times it's fun to dress as a cabin boy on a pirate ship. If I want to go as a damn swordsman (they make some awesome leather jerkins) or use my d20 dice in play, then I'll do that too. In fact, that dice thing sounds like a great idea.

I mean, there's only so much you can do with the "traditional" BDSM staples. Especially if you're a guy...Pants and shirt in rubber and leather? I was recently at Club Hades in London and saw people dressed in all kinds of outfits that didn't immediately say "kinky" but were wonderful in their creativity. One guy was dressed as a samurai, a woman as a pixie/fairy...Should they have been kicked out? It's obvious they put more effort into the thing than the creepy guy in brown leather pants with a black silk shirt.

Rude behavior and taking things too seriously, yes, that's annoying...But it's not like people in BDSM don't do that all the damn time as well. Ive always approached anything I've done - in BDSM, gaming, or other leisure activities - with the sense that it's not to be taken too seriously. I take work seriously, I take studying seriously. I don't want to be dour when I'm rolling dice or being spanked. The ideas of strict dress code in both arenas seems kinda silly to me, except maybe in a Ren-Faire where historical accuracy is the intent, but then I don't participate in those things, for the above reasons.

I guess what I'm trying to say is...

Can I play with your +3 CHA cockring, Najakcharmer? ;)



Najakcharmer -> RE: BDSM and the SCA (7/12/2007 9:44:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aidan
Can I play with your +3 CHA cockring, Najakcharmer? ;)


**evil grin**  Only if you wear that hawt male geisha outfit.



aidan -> RE: BDSM and the SCA (7/12/2007 10:18:21 PM)

*blushes* Oooh, I think we can work something out...

Gotta figure out how to walk in the geta, though [&:]



astro1347 -> RE: BDSM and the SCA (7/12/2007 11:08:31 PM)



quote:

When you appointed yourself Fashion Police of the goth/BDSM clubs.


So whatever you do don't have a strong opinion and voice it or you become a self apointed authority figure. Fuck that! By your standards critics of fashion, art and style should only say nice things or say nothing at all? Mr. Blackwell will be dissapointed.

quote:

I think a lot of Goths might disagree with you about elvin maiden garb specifically.  Ever seen a Goth fashion website?


I gotta call a big steaming pile of Bullshit here. I have never heard a single word of praise from a Goth in regards to the SCAers and/or their clothes. Just the opposite, contempt, ridicule and distain is what I've always heard. The fetishists that I've known tend to be the most diplomatic, but at best they're dismisive of these types.

quote:

And I know a lot of BDSM folks don't agree with dress codes at events or feel that they are always appropriate.  At some events they are; at others they're really not, and diversity deserves to be respected. 


(I think you made a typo here, did you mean "...that they aren't always appropriate."? I'm pretty sure that's what you meant so...)

Dress codes are always appropriate. "Normal" dance clubs have dress codes like no tennis shoes, t-shirts, or denim jeans in order to maintain an image and to weed out the people they don't want in their club. Now you can argue that it's not fair based on diversity but it doesn't matter, those clubs don't want bummy looking people in their clubs, they want people "dressed to impress" because, as the saying goes, birds of a feather...

If SCAers were turned away at the door of one of those clubs would that Club be unfair? It's gonna happen here in San Diego during Comi-Con next month. All these people (over 100,000) will be paking the streets of downtown dressed as superheros and stuff and not one high end club will let them in.

quote:

Hmmf.  I'll have you know I'm a 10th level dominant with a +5 flogger and a cockring of charisma plus three.  [;)]


Ok, now you're scaring me (or is it a chub?)



Alumbrado -> RE: BDSM and the SCA (7/13/2007 9:13:43 AM)

quote:

I think a lot of Goths might disagree with you about elvin maiden garb specifically.  Ever seen a Goth fashion website?



Errrmmm... I think those are supposed to be dead elvin maidens...

http://www.themissionboutique.com/xcart/product_image.php?imageid=47



astro1347 -> RE: BDSM and the SCA (7/13/2007 9:46:45 AM)


quote:

Errrmmm... I think those are supposed to be dead elvin maidens...




*SNORT*!

Good one!



Najakcharmer -> RE: BDSM and the SCA (7/13/2007 10:20:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: astro1347
I have never heard a single word of praise from a Goth in regards to the SCAers and/or their clothes. Just the opposite, contempt, ridicule and distain is what I've always heard. The fetishists that I've known tend to be the most diplomatic, but at best they're dismisive of these types.


Don't listen to them - look at them.  The overlap is considerable.  A good many professional costumers sell to both markets simply because the fabrics, the fashions and the designs are the same in both markets. 

quote:


(I think you made a typo here, did you mean "...that they aren't always appropriate."? I'm pretty sure that's what you meant so...)


No typo; read the sentence carefully.  BDSM folks don't always feel that dress codes are appropriate in all situations, and they really are not. 

quote:

Dress codes are always appropriate. "Normal" dance clubs have dress codes like no tennis shoes, t-shirts, or denim jeans in order to maintain an image and to weed out the people they don't want in their club.


You seem to be talking only about private establishments here rather than community events.  A private event can set any code it wants, including the need for attendees to wear an Order of the Moose Lodge horned hat.  A public community event is a whole different ball of wax, since it is put on by and for a community which respects diversity.


quote:

Ok, now you're scaring me (or is it a chub?)


Hey, mine can always be as big as I want it to be.  And I can leave it in the sink when I'm done using it.  [8D]



kossack -> RE: BDSM and the SCA (7/13/2007 1:49:35 PM)

It's funny--I did SCA when I was 12-15, before I even knew that I was kinky, and while I had plenty of opportunities to get laid (often by helpful men in their 20s and 30s), I wasn't ever aware of the kink going on in tents; intense! 

I also think all those bodice rippers and Anne Rice books have a tiny underlying milieu that seems at home with SCA.  I also think the sense of fighting tournaments and for the favors of ladies lends itself well to that sort of power play.  I think there may be some sort of correlation in that it encourages you to let go of societal expectations, in some ways good and in some ways not so good. 

For example, when I was in the SCA, at 13, I was aggressively courted, by a 35 year old man, who explained that 'some people think you aren't mature enough to know what you want.  They don't trust you to make your own decisions, but I know you are mature enough to make your own decisions' (and the underlying message--prove your grown up--fuck me).  Now he was a creepy letch, and while he didn't get in my bodice, he did get in the skirts of 3 of my girlfriends!  What creeps me out in retrospect is that everyone in this community knew what was going on and no one said a thing because sex is cool and sex is good.  I too believe sex is cool and sex is good (for grown ups), and I appreciate open-minded people who also have a good sense of boundaries (if that isn't an oxymoron).  SCA seems to have little boundaries, but I haven't been in it for 20 years, so I could be totally wrong.



onegoodgirl -> RE: BDSM and the SCA (7/23/2007 6:11:30 AM)



[/quote]

Yep, when I was 18 I had a girlfriend who loved going to ren fair thing and then through a friend found out that she could work at one of these SCA fairs. Her friend told her about all the stuff that went on and that they would camp out over the weekend there at the fair and all. She thought it would be a lot of fun so she signed up and went out and bought the costume that they told her to get, she then went to an orientation and was shown how a person of her 'lower class' was to act to someone of a different 'higher class', she really put a lot of time into it and was really having a good time.

Then the fair came along and the first day she went there and talked in a really bad Cockney accent, bowed to the queen when she past, used middle english (poorly) and all in all had a great time. Then after the fair closed and all the participants went to the camp site and started partying she started wandering around to all the different campsites to meet the people that she had been working with that day. She discovered pretty quickly though that as a member of the 'peasant' class she wasn't allowed into the campsites of the higher classes, and shouldn't even speak to those of the royal class. This is, just to make it clear, after the public had gone home and most people had changed into their 20th century clothes.

She found the whole group so pretentious, arrogant and fake that she went home that night.

[/quote]

There are no lower or upper class campsites.. everyone is the SCA is assume to have some level of nobility. There are "household" groups that restrict camping to members of thier specific groups but I'm confused about this snobbish dynamic you're talking about.. as it seems completely alien to me! I would even go so far as to suspect you're talking about the Faire groups.. as people in fairy costumes would be VERY out of place at an SCA event. SCA events are not spectator events - often people who work the faires are SCA members as well.. but what you're describing does not sound like any SCA event to which I've ever been.

I have been going to SCA events for 7 years without bothering to strive for a title... just for FUN. I attend Gulf Wars and usually 50% of all local events.. If people are interested, I would encourage them to check it out. It's not everybody's cup of tea - true.. but some of us really enjoy the SCA... don't take someone's word for it who has never been there.. check it out for yourself.



GhitaAmati -> RE: BDSM and the SCA (7/23/2007 6:43:17 AM)

onegoodgirl,

I admit, alot of the complaints I have been hearing on this thread seem to be directed more towards the LARP and ren-faire crowds......most of what they are complaining about I have never seen at an SCA event, and I try to make at least 2 a month!

and see ya at Gulf War!!



szobras -> RE: BDSM and the SCA (7/23/2007 6:50:01 AM)

Not into SCA, and my involvement in medievel fairs is a business avenue, relative to my work. I do enjoy the atmosphere, though as far as BDSM, and a crossover, one had nothing to do with leading to the other.



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