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RE: Collaring for Subs Only? - 7/18/2007 1:38:48 PM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Unless the OP has a dominant like mine. Then she may very well be his equal, save that her role is different. My role is to obey, but I am his equal.

I like to think of Dominant and submissive as equal partners in a balanced relationship (ie: one cannot take more than the other is willing/able to give, and one cannot give more than the other is willing/able to take).

Again I disagree. Pay attention to the forum names..."Person above me"...the implications are enormous. Things are not equal...that implies 50/50 and that just isn't the way D/s works...it's more like 90/10. and that 10 is GOLDEN. That's all I need. And hell yeah I can give more than She wants to take...it's pointless and won't be received but I sure as hell can.

The person above me thread has nothing to do with the d/s dynamic. The power exchange in the relationship between Valyraen and I is not equal, but I am his equal. You said "You are not equals" which simply is not true of all relationships.

Edited after checking: Yup. The "person above me" thread is just a thread where you make a comment about the person who posted last, the person "above you" in the posting order.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 7/18/2007 1:41:54 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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RE: Collaring for Subs Only? - 7/18/2007 2:22:48 PM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Unless the OP has a dominant like mine. Then she may very well be his equal, save that her role is different. My role is to obey, but I am his equal.

I like to think of Dominant and submissive as equal partners in a balanced relationship (ie: one cannot take more than the other is willing/able to give, and one cannot give more than the other is willing/able to take).

Again I disagree. Pay attention to the forum names..."Person above me"...the implications are enormous. Things are not equal...that implies 50/50 and that just isn't the way D/s works...it's more like 90/10. and that 10 is GOLDEN. That's all I need. And hell yeah I can give more than She wants to take...it's pointless and won't be received but I sure as hell can.

Help me to better understand your position.... what exactly *is* the 90 and what *is* the 10 you're talking about? Is that effort, responsibility, time... what?

John

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"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

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RE: Collaring for Subs Only? - 7/18/2007 2:28:21 PM

slavegirljoy

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Hi BDsbabygirl, First off, i would just like to say that it sounds as though the two of you have a very solid and honest relationship with each other and, i believe, that as long as you communicate your feelings and desires with each other, honestly and openly, you can reach whatever balance you both need to maintain a healthy and happy relationship, both in the bedroom and out. Secondly, i believe, trying to "get over this desire to feel".....________ (fill in the blank with anything), isn't a really healthy thing for anyone or their relationship. You just feel what you feel and it's not a "right" or "wrong" issue. It just is. As long as you make your Dom/significant other/soul mate/partner/etc. aware of how you're feeling, i don't see why the two of you can't work this issue out so that you both feel comfortable about it. The main thing is to talk with him about what you're feeling. Holding your feelings in, disregarding them, or trying to change them just to go along with and please him, isn't what i consider to be a healthy way to live a happy life. Having any feelings of resentment, i believe, is very harmful to yourself and your relationship. Finally, as far as "showing the world who belongs to whom", (and this is strictly from my personal perspective and not meant to be suggestive that you or anyone else should feel this way), i don't feel and have never felt, with any man that i was involved with, in a BDSM relationship or not, that He belongs to me. i have always felt a need to belong to a man, but i have never wanted or expected Him to belong to me. Also, i have never, in any of my relationships, been "shown to the world" to belong to anyone. It's just never been an issue for me. i know who it is i belong to and He knows it and that's all that matters to Uus. Even when i was married, (and it was a D/s, BDSM-based relationship and marriage) i never had a ring and neither did He. When He asked me about a ring, i said i didn't need one and so i was never given one. But, like i said, this is just me and it's just been a nonissue in all of my relationships. Wishing you the best of luck in finding a solution to your concerns and continued happiness, slave joyOwned property of Master David "Commitment transforms a promise into a reality."

quote:

ORIGINAL: BDsbabygirl

I am fairly new to this and fell into it quite by accident; my Dom and I met as just friends in a vanilla world but after a while we fell into a romantic relationship. As he has been into BDSM for most of his adult life, he recognized certain qualities in me and we have been greatly enjoying exploring those traits.

Now, this is where it gets more complex; outside of sex, we are basically equals. It's in me to defer to him on certain things and that's how I did it in my two vanilla marriages so I don't think of that as being a sub, especially since I actually abhor being told what to do and can only suspend that hatred for the bedroom.

I went into this long preface so you can see my mindset; I think as a vanilla person except in the bed.

Now, my Dom wants to collar me and while I thrill at just the idea of such a thing, there's the vanilla part of me that wonders why HE doesn't have something to show he's "taken"; the last time I was married, I actually stopped wearing my wedding ring because my husband wouldn't wear his and I didn't want to be the only one 'marked'.

How do I get over this desire to feel equal in terms of showing the world who belongs to whom? I am actually looking forward to being collared but I don't want it ruined because I resent that he has no 'mark' other than hickies (!)

Thank you to all who respond.

< Message edited by slavegirljoy -- 7/18/2007 2:30:53 PM >

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RE: Collaring for Subs Only? - 7/19/2007 12:41:16 PM

Lewcifer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
Unless the OP has a dominant like mine. Then she may very well be his equal, save that her role is different. My role is to obey, but I am his equal.

Yep... I know couples like that. They do it not out of compromise, but because they find that particular arrangement the most rewarding. My wife/slave and I have a similar arrangement, albeit much more limited in scope. I think that's key to getting along with someone long-term... exploring, establishing and living within a comfort zone (as opposed to continual compromise).

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I am fortunate... My wife is also My friend, lover and slave.

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RE: Collaring for Subs Only? - 7/19/2007 3:44:32 PM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lewcifer

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
Unless the OP has a dominant like mine. Then she may very well be his equal, save that her role is different. My role is to obey, but I am his equal.

Yep... I know couples like that. They do it not out of compromise, but because they find that particular arrangement the most rewarding. My wife/slave and I have a similar arrangement, albeit much more limited in scope. I think that's key to getting along with someone long-term... exploring, establishing and living within a comfort zone (as opposed to continual compromise).

That sounds about right for us. This lifestyle is very rewarding to me, but it also has a lot to do with the way Valyraen views ownership. He simply wouldn't have a lot of pride in owning any woman who considered herself to be inferior to him, and hence he wouldn't consider the relationship worth his time.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

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RE: Collaring for Subs Only? - 7/20/2007 12:13:32 AM

BoiJen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Help me to better understand your position.... what exactly *is* the 90 and what *is* the 10 you're talking about? Is that effort, responsibility, time... what?

John

equality...it's 90% all Her's and 10% mine. Not in terms of responsibility or effort the dycotomy of such makes my head hurt... What I'm saying is that there is balance. Not even vanilla relationships are between complete equals. I know it's a bad comaprison cinsidering those are based on romance and that's not always the case here. My point is that people are not made equally. People are made to complament and compare. That's why some people are better at things than others. So why wouldn't that apply directly in a D/s relationship? A power based relationship.

I apologize for the very short responce and I hope it's clearit's 3 am and I just got off work.

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RE: Collaring for Subs Only? - 7/20/2007 12:32:17 AM

slavegirljoy

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For what it's worth, i agree with your statement here, BoiJen, 100%. Well said.

In my relationship with my Master, Wwe both have the same amount of responsibility, in terms of taking care of each other and in keeping the relationship healthy and going strong. Wwe have balance in Oour relationship, even though the scales of power are tipped to His side.

Of course, every relationship is different and dependent on whatever works best for the people involved. Just like people have different tastes in how they take their coffee, for instance. Some like it to be100% coffee, with no cream, while others might like it 50% coffee and 50% cream. Then there are those who like 80% coffee, 10% cream, and 10% Irish whiskey.......it just varies according to individual desire and need.

slave joy
Owned property of Master David

"Commitment transforms a promise into a reality."

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen
equality...it's 90% all Her's and 10% mine. Not in terms of responsibility or effort the dycotomy of such makes my head hurt... What I'm saying is that there is balance. Not even vanilla relationships are between complete equals. I know it's a bad comaprison cinsidering those are based on romance and that's not always the case here. My point is that people are not made equally. People are made to complament and compare. That's why some people are better at things than others. So why wouldn't that apply directly in a D/s relationship? A power based relationship.

I apologize for the very short responce and I hope it's clearit's 3 am and I just got off work.

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RE: Collaring for Subs Only? - 7/20/2007 5:23:51 AM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Help me to better understand your position.... what exactly *is* the 90 and what *is* the 10 you're talking about? Is that effort, responsibility, time... what?

John

equality...it's 90% all Her's and 10% mine. Not in terms of responsibility or effort the dycotomy of such makes my head hurt... What I'm saying is that there is balance. Not even vanilla relationships are between complete equals. I know it's a bad comaprison cinsidering those are based on romance and that's not always the case here. My point is that people are not made equally. People are made to complament and compare. That's why some people are better at things than others. So why wouldn't that apply directly in a D/s relationship? A power based relationship.

I apologize for the very short responce and I hope it's clearit's 3 am and I just got off work.

I appreciate the reply, Jen. But it hasn't cleared anything up for me (though that may say more about me than you). The sense I get is that power exchange relationships don't "feel" equal to you (something most people agree with) because the control is not equally distributed nor exerted. But even control is balanced by an equal part of obedience, or it controls nothing.

Much of what we discuss about in BDSM on an intellectual level, particularly as it relates to power exchanges, conflicts with what we "feel" on the emotional level. We see that expressed in the various topics discussed in these threads (like limits vs. no limits, unconditional ownership vs. conditional ownership, etc.). The reality of things strips away the varnish of romance (yeah, this is the BDSM version of "romantic") that we (often) work very hard to apply.

John

< Message edited by Rover -- 7/20/2007 5:24:49 AM >

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RE: Collaring for Subs Only? - 7/20/2007 9:41:28 AM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Help me to better understand your position.... what exactly *is* the 90 and what *is* the 10 you're talking about? Is that effort, responsibility, time... what?

John

equality...it's 90% all Her's and 10% mine. Not in terms of responsibility or effort the dycotomy of such makes my head hurt... What I'm saying is that there is balance. Not even vanilla relationships are between complete equals. I know it's a bad comaprison cinsidering those are based on romance and that's not always the case here. My point is that people are not made equally. People are made to complament and compare. That's why some people are better at things than others. So why wouldn't that apply directly in a D/s relationship? A power based relationship.

I apologize for the very short responce and I hope it's clearit's 3 am and I just got off work.

So the power exchange in your relationshop is not equal and you don't feel all people are equal. Fair enough - except that still you can not assume that all submissives are inferior or lesser then their owners.

There are plenty of owners like mine who are willing to wait and be patient until they find a person who is their mental and emotional equal and personal complement. Or even someone who could be considered their "better". For those owners, anything less wouldn't be worth the time to train them.

What you have works for you and I'm glad. But just because the power exchange is unequal does not mean I am not his equal as a person.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

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RE: Collaring for Subs Only? - 7/20/2007 12:12:30 PM

masterdstar

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Whatever a collar means to T/those involved is fine but do remember the “importance” and “significance” of so-called collaring is a rather recently created ritual. Hope this below isn’t too long, a repost from My Blog at another site;

“Collar me, HURRY!

Ah yes the engagement ring, no I mean the moving in to the apartment together, no I mean the ring on the neck-chain given at the Dorm party, no I mean meeting the Mom and Dad dinner, wait I mean the “collaring; ah yes the sweetness and power of vanilla commitment!

I am not all that interested in “collaring” My slaves; collaring is mostly a child of the cyber-community. Oh piercing and tattoos have always been around, Ownership used to be more about arm bands or wrist bands than collars. A collar was just more equipment for when One went to “work” (sceneing).

Ah yes the proud whore masquerading as a slave who wears her collar everyday, all day no matter if at work or shopping or wherever needful in being out, “honest” about what she is.

I happen to prefer something less public not because I have ANY worries about that but rather because I want MY slave-animals to know what they really are. slave-animals.

So I use a harness, thin enough to wear under most clothing and frankly sometimes the obvious “showing” of it plays well into humiliation when that is required.

It goes around the waist with a strap attached and lockable up between the legs and has two points where plugs of various sizes and materials can be inserted along with other objects such as small bottles etc.

Now the slave is IN HARNESS as a genuine good slave should always be.

A collar is no more important than a set of nipple clamps or a flogger as to the symbology of Ownership in TPE life whereas in vanilla Sm/Ds it has much more value.”

Enjoy your wonder-filled day

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RE: Collaring for Subs Only? - 7/24/2007 7:00:50 AM

BoiJen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

So the power exchange in your relationshop is not equal and you don't feel all people are equal. Fair enough - except that still you can not assume that all submissives are inferior or lesser then their owners.

There are plenty of owners like mine who are willing to wait and be patient until they find a person who is their mental and emotional equal and personal complement. Or even someone who could be considered their "better". For those owners, anything less wouldn't be worth the time to train them.

What you have works for you and I'm glad. But just because the power exchange is unequal does not mean I am not his equal as a person.

I'm not talking about what I "feel" I know for a fact people are not built equally. It's life. I have not yet said the s-types are "inferior" I just said they aren't equal. As people they're not. Because you choose to "feel" that that has to be a bad thing isn't part of what's happening here. It also has not effect on the fact being that people are not equal. And trying to make them equal , especially in a power dynamic, isn't realistic.

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RE: Collaring for Subs Only? - 7/24/2007 7:10:31 AM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

So the power exchange in your relationshop is not equal and you don't feel all people are equal. Fair enough - except that still you can not assume that all submissives are inferior or lesser then their owners.

There are plenty of owners like mine who are willing to wait and be patient until they find a person who is their mental and emotional equal and personal complement. Or even someone who could be considered their "better". For those owners, anything less wouldn't be worth the time to train them.

What you have works for you and I'm glad. But just because the power exchange is unequal does not mean I am not his equal as a person.

I'm not talking about what I "feel" I know for a fact people are not built equally. It's life. I have not yet said the s-types are "inferior" I just said they aren't equal. As people they're not. Because you choose to "feel" that that has to be a bad thing isn't part of what's happening here. It also has not effect on the fact being that people are not equal. And trying to make them equal , especially in a power dynamic, isn't realistic.

You feel all s types are not equal. People are not made equally but that does not mean s types are all below all d types. You may believe yourself unequal to all d types but the plain fact is that some d types are below some s types in whatever thing you choose to measure by.

I am Valyraen's equal as person. He wouldn't have tolerence for anything inferior. That is simply the way it is. I am as smart, or even smarter than him. We have always acknowledged that due to my training, I could kill him if I wanted so physical is also out the window. You can apply your belief of all s-types being unequal to yourself and those who believe like you only.

In my relationships and in those around me in the real world, the only thing unequal is the power dynamic. It is not the way you choose to live your life, but it is the way many choose to live theirs. Best wishes,
Aqua

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 7/24/2007 7:11:50 AM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

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RE: Collaring for Subs Only? - 7/24/2007 7:24:14 AM

Twicehappy2x

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

I have not yet said the s-types are "inferior" I just said they aren't equal. As people they're not. It also has not effect on the fact being that people are not equal.

quote:

Original AquaticSub
In my relationships and in those around me in the real world, the only thing unequal is the power dynamic.

Aquatic, you answered that perfectly.

I have no idea where anybody got the idea that D types and s types are not equal as people.

We are all going to be better at some things than others but it appears to me (and i've been at this a good while) that the best relationships are between those who are fairly equally matched, at least on an intelligence level.

I mean who wants to own an inferior anything?

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