quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

............ he has to twist everything to promote his philosophy of socialized medicine. And this is absolutely typical of a far-left winger. They twist the facts to make their philosophies work. That is why when applied to the real world.....the systems fail.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

.. He said once on TV that everybody should be paying at least 60% of their income to the government. And he has said he supports redistribution of wealth.
This coming from an enormous fat man that has made his entire fortune off capitalism.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Michael Moore is about as far left as you can get. He's a borderline communist. Seriously... He said once on TV that everybody should be paying at least 60% of their income to the government. And he has said he supports redistribution of wealth.
This coming from an enormous fat man that has made his entire fortune off capitalism.

Moore again screwed up. Instead of making a true documentary about the real problems with the American healthcare system, he has to twist everything to promote his philosophy of socialized medicine. And this is absolutely typical of a far-left winger. They twist the facts to make their philosophies work. That is why when applied to the real world.....the systems fail.

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

.. He said once on TV that everybody should be paying at least 60% of their income to the government. And he has said he supports redistribution of wealth.
This coming from an enormous fat man that has made his entire fortune off capitalism.

Couldn't find it....Would you be kind enough to quote the source. Or is this another one of your made up facts?

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

.. He said once on TV that everybody should be paying at least 60% of their income to the government. And he has said he supports redistribution of wealth.
This coming from an enormous fat man that has made his entire fortune off capitalism.

Couldn't find it....Would you be kind enough to quote the source. Or is this another one of your made up facts?

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

I have worked in doctor offices, hospital business offices and insurance all my working life.  Collections, billing, admissions, assisting, health services advisory groups.
 
I saw the onset of the HMOs.  It was the result of people's crying that the medical facilities charged too much.  Well, it started off well enough.  Then the insurance companies decided THEY would decide what they would pay and not.  If the doctor or hospital signed up with them and played the game right..they got paid in a timely fashion if only a portion of their fee.  Goody goody! One for the little guy.. they got 'em.
 
But it didn't stop there.  The HMO came up with this great idea.  They would agree to pay the facilities so much per patient per year.  If the facility/Dr did not exceed his allotment per patient- he/she/they would be rewarded with the balance of his/her/their unused allotment directly to them/him/her.
 
This leads to maybe not recommending a surgery to fix a problem but prescribed an Rx to cover the symptoms.
 
Then you have the Medicare debacle.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Michael Moore is about as far left as you can get. He's a borderline communist. Seriously... He said once on TV that everybody should be paying at least 60% of their income to the government. And he has said he supports redistribution of wealth.
This coming from an enormous fat man that has made his entire fortune off capitalism.

Moore again screwed up. Instead of making a true documentary about the real problems with the American healthcare system, he has to twist everything to promote his philosophy of socialized medicine. And this is absolutely typical of a far-left winger. They twist the facts to make their philosophies work. That is why when applied to the real world.....the systems fail.

I`d bet money that neither of you has seen the film.It`s obvious.

I would recommend it to anyone who wants an alternative view,other then the one the drug and insurance companies present,along w/ their employees,the GOP.
Don`t be scared by the doom and glumers,or the uninformed.They`re the ones telling us in the US,that we must pay more for  drugs,then they do in other countries(the same drugs,same companies!!).The GOP even passed a law saying that the government"could NOT",use it`s buying power to negotiate the price lower on the drugs they buy?!?WTF? LOL Got $20 here,for anyone who can square that for me,with BSing.

Look at all the arguments and decide for yourself.
Moore documents , footnotes ,and vets everything he does.I think the problem some folks have, is that he`s to honest,and presents arguments they can`t compete with.So rather,they`ll attack his integrity(a laugh coming from a republican),or his looks,patriotism(again,a laugh,coming from a republican) or anything other then his positions.

Peace

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Much of what michael said is correct....We already have a health program in place for people over 65 and it is called medicare....Which pays for the majority of your hospital bills.  Why not bitch about all of the evils of medicare....See how many people over the age of 65 would tolerate it. 

Why not make the attempt to right the ship? There is something seriously wrong with this country when it comes to health care.....Whether you agree with Moore or not....He gets a dialogue started on a subject that is in dire need of overhaul.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

"Why is it that a fat man wearing a baseball cap has to ask the tough questions?"

"I demand an apology!"

"You're a liar"

Maybe these aren't the exact quotes, but fundamentally this is how Michael Moore presented himself on CNN appearing on Wolf Blitzer.

Link to interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpKoN40K7mA

I have no issue or problem with an opposing view. An educated, logical, presentation coming from that angle is challenging and educational. It's not the case with Michael Moore and his latest pseudo-documentary "Sicko".

He focused on one fact in his debate, whether the cost of universal health care in Cuba was $257 versus $251 dollars per person. Nice distraction coming from a place that has the highest suicide rate in the world
This is not exactly accurate. 
http://fathersforlife.org/health/who_suicide_rates.htm
This site is pretty informative also...guys like guns, girls like poison.
White guys do black guys don't.
http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html

and whose administration's immigration policy is focused on keeping citizens locked in versus keeping immigrants out. But that's another issue.

Mike's hypocrisy is more ironic. He wants the tough questions asked - as long as they aren't asked of him.

His response to challenge is not to debate the challenger with facts, but call him a liar. Name calling and profanity may someday be considered 'argument' if they become more frequently accepted and allowed, but for now - its a huge 'tell' that the person has no logical or intellectual response.

But the best is his pompous demand for an apology. Wow - how insecure is he? He not only needs his point of view accepted and viewed as fact, regardless of any contradictory information, but he wants to be above challenge.
The video you linked us to has him demanding an apology from CNN for inaccurate statements they made about his movie "Fahrenheit" in which his statements were right and CNN's were wrong.

Better yet, he wants all challenge to be seen as agenda based. In his mind, CNN gave 'Sicko' a poor review because they accepted advertisement from drug companies. Mike's paranoia is profound. I wonder what it takes to have such an ego centric view of the world?

The Doctor who debated him, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, had difficulty getting his points across and never got any answers from direct points of facts challenges from Mr. Moore. It's a fun watch and keeping Mike's own words in mind represent a dictionary definition of hypocrisy.
The video you linked was not a debate with Dr. Gupta but was an interview with Wolf Blitzer.

We already have a global warming messiah who, like Mike, discounts any challenge as agenda based and has formed a pseudo religion around his position. Now Mike wants to be the same "one true voice" for all things anti-establishment. If he had a profile on CM I imagine he would have "true" as part of his screen name.

Mike wants to be the "truth Messiah"; above questioning, above challenge, and as infallible as the Pope.

Here is the CNN report that caused him to take issue with CNN. Maybe he should have tried FOX? http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/06/28/sicko.fact.check/index.html
This report from CNN actually supports Mr. Moors position.  Pointing out only minor errors.  Moors position that the U.S. spends $7000 dollars per year per person and CNN says it was $6096 a relative  small difference while Cuba CNN claims spends only $229 per person.  What is instructive is that the U.S. comes in at #37 vs. Cuba at #39 in quality of care and patient satisfaction...a huge difference in the cost for a pretty close result.
You appear to be against Mr. Moor and his movie but the data you give to support your position seems to do just the opposite.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Much of what michael said is correct....We already have a health program in place for people over 65 and it is called medicare....Which pays for the majority of your hospital bills. Why not bitch about all of the evils of medicare....See how many people over the age of 65 would tolerate it.

Why not make the attempt to right the ship? There is something seriously wrong with this country when it comes to health care.....Whether you agree with Moore or not....He gets a dialogue started on a subject that is in dire need of overhaul.

And Medicare is slowly failing. And Medicare fraud is out of control. The government can't keep up on oversight on the claims it is already getting. So they are paying $50 for a bandaid.
You think the oversight will get better if the government adds 200 million people to that plan?

We have a rising population that is getting older with rising healthcare costs.
Since everyone here loves Michael Moore....we will use his numbers... If the average healthcare costs per person per year in Cuba is about $250, then that means for the government to take care of JUST the people without insurance right now, we would need at least $1.3 trillion dollars. But lests not stop there...the Democrats want to eliminate those evil HMOs. So we need to add all those people as well. Now we are looking at about $4 trillion a year.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Michael Moore is about as far left as you can get. He's a borderline communist. Seriously... He said once on TV that everybody should be paying at least 60% of their income to the government. And he has said he supports redistribution of wealth.
Are you suggesting that capitalism does not redistribute wealth?

This coming from an enormous fat man that has made his entire fortune off capitalism.
He appears to have made his money from the free enterprise system and not from capitalism.  You were aware that the two words are not synonymous,and in fact are actually antithetical to one another.

Moore again screwed up. Instead of making a true documentary about the real problems with the American healthcare system, he has to twist everything to promote his philosophy of socialized medicine. And this is absolutely typical of a far-left winger.
I find it difficult to believe that you actually spent money to go watch this movie.

They twist the facts to make their philosophies work. That is why when applied to the real world.....the systems fail.
This is more than a little inaccurate.  Socialism does and is working right here in the U.S. and you are a beneficiary of it. 
Perhaps you will give us your definition of Socialism that does not work.