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RE: The Fat Tax - 7/12/2007 11:31:24 PM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

LONDON - A “fat tax” on salty, sugary and fatty foods could save thousands of lives each year, according to a study published on Thursday.

Researchers at Oxford University say that charging Value Added Tax (VAT) at 17.5 percent on foods deemed to be unhealthy would cut consumer demand and reduce the number of heart attacks and strokes.

The purchase tax is already levied on a small number of products such as potato crisps, ice cream, confectionery and chocolate biscuits, but most food is exempt.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19726781


Oh I wouldn't worry too much about that happening in the U.S.
"Fat Al" Gore would just have another "Crusade."
"THE PLANET HAS THE MUNCHIES!"

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RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 1:51:56 AM   
SubinMaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: SubinMaine

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

I think it is a fantastic idea!!!  Eating healthy is very expensive and it shouldn’t be…


i have to agree with this 100%.  Trying to eat healthier raises my monthly shopping bill $100-$150.  It shouldn't cost *more* to eat healthy.



Eating healthy cut my food bill to 1/3 of what it was before.

Non-processed food, cooking for myself, fresh ingredients, etc., are so much more inexpensive than prepared garbage labelled "Health Food."

Sinergy


i want to shop where you live then because up here, fruits and veggies, anything low/reduced or fat free, they're all at least 20% higher in price than the junk food or full fat counterparts :(

*edited because it's too early and i can't type worth a damn*

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RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 1:58:17 AM   
SubinMaine


Posts: 1888
Joined: 1/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

I think it is a fantastic idea!!!  Eating healthy is very expensive and it shouldn’t be…


How would a tax on unhealthy food make "healthy" food cheaper?





myself, i don't think it should be cheaper one way or the other, but at least the same pricing...it's just disheartening to know that if you want to eat better, lots of fruits/veggies and lower carbs/fat that those products are more expensive than the junk...

At least, that's the way it is "here"...as Sinergy pointed out, it's not the case where they are...or maybe i'm just shopping all "wrong" lol


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RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 6:23:21 AM   
petdave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SubinMaine

myself, i don't think it should be cheaper one way or the other, but at least the same pricing...it's just disheartening to know that if you want to eat better, lots of fruits/veggies and lower carbs/fat that those products are more expensive than the junk...

At least, that's the way it is "here"...as Sinergy pointed out, it's not the case where they are...or maybe i'm just shopping all "wrong" lol



Depends where you shop and what you want to eat. If you shop at a "health food store" or "organic foods boutique", you're gonna pay more. They're for yuppies. Trying to "eat out" for lunches and stay healthy is a killer- deep-fried foods are generally much cheaper than salads, grilled sandwiches, etc.

But ice cream is $5 for a half-gallon. Bananas, grapes, apples in season can be had for $1/pound if you shop well. The rub is that it's very hard to eat fresh without going to the store every couple of days, and it's getting harder and harder for the average person to find time for that... and then there's the gas money if it's not on the way home. Meanwhile, frozen pizzas, hot dogs, TV dinners, etc., can be bought by the case and stored for years.

Give me convenience, or give me death!

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RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 7:20:52 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		As pointed out, if you shop the health food section, or a specialty store for health food, you are going to pay more. I am not sure about other areas of the US, but here in the SE US, it is best to go to the "Farmers Market" and buy your veggies. You can shop around and also, alot of small farmers use this as a distribution point. There are a few things to make the veggies last longer, such as slicing/cutting them, putting them into seperate zip lock bags and freezing them. Try doing some of your own on the stove canning and buy some of your veggies in bulk.

"
Overweight and obese individuals are at increased risk for many diseases and health conditions, including the following:
  • Hypertension (high blood pressure)
  • Osteoarthritis (a degeneration of cartilage and its underlying bone within a joint)
  • Dyslipidemia (for example, high total cholesterol or high levels of triglycerides)
  • Type 2 diabetes
  • Coronary heart disease
  • Stroke
  • Gallbladder disease
  • Sleep apnea and respiratory problems
  • Some cancers (endometrial, breast, and colon) "

Source: http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/dnpa/obesity/consequences.htm

This is the fuel that moves the government to protect us from ourselves. We are reaping the consequences of our own actions. We need to take that responsibility back.

Education is really the key here, and it takes parents educating themselves, and then passing this down to their children. A well balanced diet is the best for good health, but it must be combined with activity. Fast food and such, should be a rarity, just as it was when that industry began, but somewhere along the way parents started using it as the main course.

Orion

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RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 8:35:01 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		a fat tax?  heck- most Americans are overweight INCLUDING bush!!!

my advice- drink water. enjoy life in moderation.   avoid all you can eat food troffs. humans are meant to "graze" not eat till they burst.

BTW- margarine is 1 chemical away from plastic; isnt that convenient. 60% of folks i know are on lipitor.

the curruprt food industry loves it!

MSG? hell that is a drug that enhances teh taste buds so u eat MORE.

dring water now hydrate golare. you also could use a colon clense!!! dont just sit thre!!!!''

your own your body???/ the corporation, or YOU!

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RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 9:38:41 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		PaHunk, that's true about hydration.
Someone in here said that when people eat they should be drinking water instead as the body is dehydrated and it gets confused with eating and drinking or something like that.
It was a Nurse who said it but I probably didn't describe that correctly.

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RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 10:32:35 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

PaHunk, that's true about hydration.
Someone in here said that when people eat they should be drinking water instead as the body is dehydrated and it gets confused with eating and drinking or something like that.
It was a Nurse who said it but I probably didn't describe that correctly.


BINGO!  think of the old people you knew in your life. they had their stoic ways. 70 years ago- we knew this. a consumption society has most programmed to reach for a coke or pepsi.
[soda contains a mix of stuff that really doesnt quench thirst...nor hydrate]

i KNOW this works. you can almost say i grew up on the i80 Chicago to New York roadway. so i know it like the back of my hand. my past trip- after a few months of proper hydration; was a wizz. i did not have to stop as often. i had better stamina on this 12 hour drive [PA]. i was amazed at just how impacted i was.  while others were salivating over processed foods- and paying tollway prices- i did simple things- was outa there- and to my destination; better stamina.  :-)

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RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 10:37:33 AM   
Pulpsmack


Posts: 394
Joined: 4/15/2004
From: Louisiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

I think it is a fantastic idea!!!  Eating healthy is very expensive and it shouldn’t be…


How would a tax on unhealthy food make "healthy" food cheaper?



Glad to see I'm not the only "slow" one who doesn't catch on.

It seems it is only going to raise demand on the healthier items to the point where people go back to eating the taxed crap, so in effect, you have the poor and fat still eating crap, and you have the health-conscious having an even harder time affording healthy food. As usual, such bullshit legislation helps nobody but the government. 

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RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 10:43:37 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Well, real soda water does quench your thirst, but almost no one drinks it anymore.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

[soda contains a mix of stuff that really doesnt quench thirst...nor hydrate]

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RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 1:29:08 PM   
Zensee


Posts: 1564
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline 		I think a Fat Tax is a grand idea. How much of my excess weight do I remit and where do I send it?


Z.


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RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 3:12:49 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		 
A pint of chili in a can costs something like $2.29.

Veggies, beans, meat, chili powder (for the 2 tbsp), sherry, etc., costs perhaps $10.00 to make 5 gallons in my crock pot.  I then freeze this in 20 pint bags.  A pint of chili then costs $0.50.

I do this with almost everything.  Do the math :)

Sinergy

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RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 3:36:45 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		ewwwwwwww canned chili or anything canned. 

i think this "fat tax" is ridiculous. As someone pointed out healthy foods are more expensive and now fast foods will be.  What about the weight proportioned people who indulge every now and then and don't have a weight problem? Why should they be penalized?  What will they do next, have scales with charts and before you purchase food you have to stand on the scale and be in a certain range or else you pay more?  Will there be different percentage of tax depending on where you are on the scale?  i think SS people should pay more then just obese people, and just overweight even less.

Why stop there - how about higher tolls for larger cars?  Make the obese pay 2 air fares because they cannot fit in the sardine can seats?  Let's ban anyone who has ever been in a detox unit or rehab from life insurance, throw in smokers too - let's make cig's 10 bucks a pack.  i mean the list could be endless. 

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RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 3:38:14 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		When I was growing up, all the Northern villages in England had their own allotments (huge gardens) where people had their own hens and produced their own vegetables. Add to this that people caught their own rabbits, bread pigeons etc - rabbit and pigeon pie. People were almost self-sustaining and joints of other meat were bought from the butchers shop, not some god-awful supermarket. You could feed yourself for virtually nothing. Catch a rabbit, and put it in a pot with a load of home grown vegetables - bang it in the oven....easy as pie, as the saying goes. In the last 20 years, here, this supermarket idea has just exploded - I'm not sure where it has been imported from, I've always assumed it was an American or French idea.

As for the fat tax, well, it sounds pretty much like a beer tax. The government state it will reduce consumption, but we all know it won't because alcohol is a huge industry, here, and the industry can apply the pressure to make sure any increased tax is balanced by new avenues for beer revenue - licencing laws, advertising etc. 'Same goes for unhealthy food.

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 7/13/2007 3:39:54 PM >

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RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 4:10:34 PM   
Griswold


Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline 		I've only read a few of the responses but my response is...

"Uhuh!!!!"

It's basic fucking salmon food.

You (nor I) aren't going to quit eating shit that ain't good for us.

It ain't fucking rocket science people.

Feed the guppies.

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RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 5:51:51 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Does that mean "yes" or "no"?  I can't tell.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

I've only read a few of the responses but my response is...

"Uhuh!!!!"

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RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 6:00:00 PM   
LadyTeazer


Posts: 225
Joined: 4/1/2007
Status: offline 		I agree with those who have pointed out that "healthy" food  IS more expensive.  If it is "low" in something (fat, carbs, calories, etc), read that as meaning it will be "higher" in price. 

And just because fruits and veggies are "fresh",  please do *NOT*  assume that that means they are healthy for you!   Yes, the produce may be "fresh" from the field, being sold by the farmer who grew it, in his roadside stand.   BUT!!  How heavily laden is it with  ~chemicals~  (pesticides, fungicides, fertilizers, etc)  that are sooo not healthy for you??   Think of it this way -- if the pesticides on your sweet, juicy,  "fresh from the orchard 'cause I just bought it at the farmer's market"  apple can kill the worms in it, what are those chemicals doing to 'your' body over time?    Fresh may taste better, but it doesn't necessarily mean it is healthy.

Organic produce is healthier.  But why does it cost so damn much more than "regular" produce???   At least half again as much, often double  or more the price.  You don't have the added expense of buying numerous chemicals to treat the crops, you don't have the added expense of the time and labor involved to treat the fields, yet organic will  "always"  cost you more.    Go figure.....  A good rule of thumb for organic vs regular is if the produce has an outer skin that you do not eat (like a banana, or an orange), then regular is OK.  If it does have an outer skin that you eat, or no skin at all (like tomatoes, spinach, or broccoli), then it is better to get organic.

And don't even get Me started on red meat (beef)!!

I have not eaten red meat in over 15 years.  For ethical and for health reasons. (yes,  I am a member of PETA, and other groups as well)   I never liked the taste of beef, and I don't miss it.  Think of all the chemicals pumped into cattle -- growth hormones, antibiotics, and what not.  What do you think happens to all of those chemicals when the cow is slaughtered?  They do not "magically" disappear.  They all end up in your body.   Think it has no effect on you, because it is "safe" to use in cattle?  Think again.  How many 8 and 9 year old girls have you seen that have breasts already?  It's not because kids are "naturally" maturing faster (physically) than they used to.  It's because of the growth hormones pumped into the beef and other foods they eat.   Logic tells Me that if they are hitting puberty way too early, then they might very well age faster and die younger than they should, and probably have more medical problems along the way to boot.

Since I do not eat red meat, I eat "veggie burgers" instead.  Tried different brands, and Morningstar Farms is the best. But they are ridiculously expensive!!   An 8 to 10 ounce box of  four burgers runs between $3.50 and $4.00!!    Ground beef can be as cheap as 99 cents a pound, maybe up to $2.00.   How expensive is it to make a veggie burger?  You plant the soybeans, wait a few months, harvest them, process them, and *poof*, there's your veggie burger.  Yet with beef, you have to feed the cattle every day (for months, even years), buy chemicals to fatten them up faster and keep them healthy, pay to ship them to a slaughter-house, pay to have them slaughtered,  pay a butcher to process and package the carcass, then pay to have it shipped to a supermarket.  Allllllll this added expense, and it is  *still*  cheaper to buy a pound of hamburger than a pound of veggie burger?????    I don't get it.  I just don't get it..... 

So, yeah.  Eating healthy *IS* more expensive.  Makes no sense, but it is.

Hey!!!  I just had a terrific idea!   A completely unexplored and apparently limitless source of tax revenue......    Forget the Fat Tax.  Forget the cigarette tax.  Why not just tax people for being stupid??  Or for not having any common sense?   See?  An  ~unlimited~  source of tax income!    (can I patent/copyright this idea, so I can make some money off of it??)

My favorite quote.........   "Only two things are infinite -- the Universe, and human stupidity.  And I'm not so sure about the Universe."    ~Albert Einstein~


Sorry if this turned into a mini-rant.  But things that are illogical just drive Me nuts.....
Thank you for reading this post.  We now return you to our regularly scheduled Forum thread.




LadyTeazer ---- definitely a WOW -- Wonderful Older Woman  

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 6:13:34 PM   
Casie


Posts: 450
Joined: 1/5/2006
Status: offline 		This is ridiculous. A nice way for governments to become even bigger and control even more and make more money while they are at it. I agree that this would affect fast food places more than anyone. But does anyone realize the effects of that, a lot of people would lose jobs. Lame legislation.

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RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 6:19:19 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyTeazer

Think it has no effect on you, because it is "safe" to use in cattle?  Think again.  How many 8 and 9 year old girls have you seen that have breasts already?  It's not because kids are "naturally" maturing faster (physically) than they used to.  It's because of the growth hormones pumped into the beef and other foods they eat.   Logic tells Me that if they are hitting puberty way too early, then they might very well age faster and die younger than they should, and probably have more medical problems along the way to boot.



None, but I did see a girl with udders walking down the street the other day. 'Didn't make the connection until now.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 7:23:22 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Really, of all the reasons to oppose a fat tax, this has to be one of the weakest.  We should allow fast-food corporations to continue to avoid responsibility for America's obesity epidemic merely because they employ people?  By that argument, we should allow tobacco companies to continue to sell cigarettes without any warning labels.  Let them advertise on TV again, too.  Or why not just let them mass-produce and distribute cocaine while we're at it?  That would certainly create jobs.

If corporations actually took American jobs seriously, I might even be sympathetic to what you're saying.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Casie

I agree that this would affect fast food places more than anyone. But does anyone realize the effects of that, a lot of people would lose jobs.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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