Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: The Fat Tax


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: The Fat Tax Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/14/2007 12:39:25 PM   
lilsubl


Posts: 4595
Joined: 2/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

It's not my place to decide what is an idiot point and what isn't. Those points were his opinion. I might not agree with them, but to assume that anything I don't agree with is an idiot point, takes me to a place I really don't want to go.
 
The coffee case on the other hand, is just not an accurate point, as it leaves out very important details about that case, that make it rather obvious why the courts ruled like they did. There is also some clearly false information, such as the reason why several courts wouldn't hear this case.


because i love to learn things that might change my mind, can you provide any links to the info about this coffee case where i might become enlightened?  ~no sarcasm intended~


_____________________________

Linea, collarded pet of the evil Sir Max & his lovely & equally evil wife


it's no fun unless you're scared

if you can't be brave, be determined & you'll get to the same place

wannabe member of the subbi mafia

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/14/2007 12:49:05 PM   
ElectraGlide


Posts: 1246
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: Maryland
Status: offline
The state of Maryland has tried to start a Snack Tax in recent years. It has nothing to do with making people healthy. It is about the greed of the state of Maryland to rake more tax money out of us. We are almost surrounded by states with casinos, so we are getting our ass kicked on that. So they just look for more ways to get tax money.

_____________________________

www.starhillcreations.com

(in reply to lilsubl)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/14/2007 1:01:06 PM   
LadyTeazer


Posts: 225
Joined: 4/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyTeazer

Think it has no effect on you, because it is "safe" to use in cattle?  Think again.  How many 8 and 9 year old girls have you seen that have breasts already?  It's not because kids are "naturally" maturing faster (physically) than they used to.  It's because of the growth hormones pumped into the beef and other foods they eat.   Logic tells Me that if they are hitting puberty way too early, then they might very well age faster and die younger than they should, and probably have more medical problems along the way to boot.



None, but I did see a girl with udders walking down the street the other day. 'Didn't make the connection until now.





Did you find the sight of that girl to be 'udder-ly'  amazing?

And did you "moo-ve' over so that she could pass by you?

~~~giggles~~~



LadyTeazer ---- definitely a WOW -- Wonderful Older Woman

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/14/2007 1:08:52 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
It's not my place to decide what is an idiot point and what isn't.


Sure it is.

In what way is less information about something you might consume a good thing? In what way is receiving less information about a product a more intelligent approach?

As I said, "self-evident."

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/14/2007 1:23:07 PM   
Pulpsmack


Posts: 394
Joined: 4/15/2004
From: Louisiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
You might want to look more closely at the details surrounding these lawsuits, before using them to support your views. Using this is actually ruining your entire point, to anyone that has looked at these cases in detail.


Yeah, but he also made other idiot points about product labelling being unnecessary for some reason.

I think product labelling is very necessary.

I don't even feel the need to defend something so obviously correct. I'll just let the idea stand as self-evident.




Way to KO yourself there, champ. You will let the idea of idiot warnings being a good idea stand as a "self-evident" principle. How ironic.

Your absurd argument style aside, it seems you miss the point entirely. This was never about a campaign to blot warning labels from existence (like you misread, possibly from eyestrain while overreading whether or not you can eat your sun tan lotion). This was about the attitude society has taken about products liability, which has become so absurd that people will take advantage of a situation that common sense should have thwarted.  

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/14/2007 1:32:01 PM   
LadyTeazer


Posts: 225
Joined: 4/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lilsubl

quote:

Organic produce is healthier. But why does it cost so damn much more than "regular" produce??? At least half again as much, often double or more the price. You don't have the added expense of buying numerous chemicals to treat the crops, you don't have the added expense of the time and labor involved to treat the fields, yet organic will "always" cost you more.


one of the reasons that "Organic" produce is more expensive is that less is produced in the same space...in other words, more of the apples on that "Organic" tree do get eaten by the worms...then you have the smaller end products due to lack of the chemical fertilizers & other goodies used to make the "regular" produce, ummmm, produce...so the farmer has less to sell from his acreage...then there are the outbreaks of e.coli from the manure used to naturally fertilize, or from the water used to irrigate it...some farmers have to plow under entire crops due to things like this...

the reason that i put "Organic" into quotes for the purpose of this post is that very little that we get in the marketplace is actually chemical free, because the chemicals used at the "regular" farm are spread through the water table & the air to the "Organic" farm.....





I agree with what you have said, lilsubl.   I should have mentioned those points in My post, but it is difficult to capture 'all' of My thoughts, as My mind works 100 times faster than My fingers do!

Organic produce costs more because the total yield of the crop is less (than 'regular' produce), and the individual fruits and/or veggies are smaller, so the farmer has to try and recover as much of his original expenses as possible.  But still......

I also know that it is not possible for produce to be 100% organic, due to the contamination of the air and ground water.  And sometimes, an entire organic crop will be lost due to contamination, like run-off that carries e. coli  in it. 



LadyTeazer ---- definitely a WOW -- Wonderful Older Woman

(in reply to lilsubl)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/14/2007 1:52:31 PM   
LadyTeazer


Posts: 225
Joined: 4/1/2007
Status: offline
When I first heard about that "Hot Coffee Case", I was stunned.

I still cannot decide who was the biggest idiot -- the woman who decided to sue,  the lawyer who actually took the case,  or the judge who heard it (and did not just dismiss the case as "frivolous").   "Frivolous".  Is that the politically correct way to say "damn stupid"??

See?  See what I mean??   I had a ~brilliant~ idea in a previous post -- forget the Fat tax, the cigarette tax, the Snack tax.  Just tax people for being stupid, and/or for having no common sense!!!   Think of the gazillions of tax dollars that would generate!  A never-ending pool of citizens to be taxed.   Except for those who qualify for a 'Darwin Award', after they have been taxed for being stupid.....




LadyTeazer ---- definitely a WOW -- Wonderful Older Woman

(in reply to LadyTeazer)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/14/2007 1:57:10 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline
Well, a 'link' wouldn't educate you on anything, other than to give you the opinon of organizations like:
 
The Society for Protection from Evil Government Regulation
or
The Society for Protection from Large Corporations, Taking Us Without Condoms
 
I wrote a paper about this case once, and used the actual court documents as backup. I don't know if they are available online, and quite frankly if they were, I would check the source first.
 
I will say, that my interpretation of the important points is:
 
This chain store was involved in a "hottest coffee in town" marketing war, and had numerous warning about the heat of the coffee they were serving, including from their own corporate headquarters.
 
The woman involved, had never been involved in a lawsuit prior to this one. She originally was only asking to have the chain store in question, split her medical expenses. The woman was very seriously burned, including heavy scarring.
 
At the temperature the coffee was served, the plastic lid expanded to the point that it wouldn't stay on the cup. When you tried to drink it through the sip slot, the lid just came right off the cup.
 
That this case bounced from court to court, was largely the doing of the lawyers for the corporation in question.
 
The original award was excessive and high, and included a statement by the judge that he was shocked by the conduct of the corporation in question.
 
The award was later lowered to a level proper for the injury sustained, and removed the anger penalty of the original judgement.
 
An op-ed was written in this case, stating that the corporation spent ninty times in legal fees, what half the medical expenses would have been.

_____________________________

I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

(in reply to lilsubl)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/14/2007 2:08:18 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline
Fast Reply:


Facts:

McDonalds had over 700 other cases over the prior 10 years, that were settled by the corporation, and some of those injuries were 3rd degree burns as well.

McDonalds tried to say they had the temp so high because most customers did not drink it right away, but drank it at work. McDonalds own survey on this showed otherwise.

The plantive in the beginning asked for medical reimbursement and this was turned down by McDonalds.

During arbitration, the mediator, who was a former judge, recommended to McDonalds that the plantives request for medical reimbursement was reasonable and would be substantially less than what a jury would likely award.

The amount awarded was reduced somewhat (cannot remember the actual percentage but I believe it was 20%) because they did say the plantive did have some responsibility in this.


People should check facts before they open their mouths and show their ignorance. I know that it took me opening my mouth and proving my ignorance before I got online and did the research. I then apologized to the person I said was an idiot because it was a frivilous lawsuit.


Orion

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/14/2007 2:16:28 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline
In support of caitlyn's and OrionTheWolf's information:

-----

McFact No. 1: For years, McDonald's had known they had a problem with the way they make their coffee - that their coffee was served much hotter (at least 20 degrees more so) than at other restaurants.

McFact No. 2: McDonald's knew its coffee sometimes caused serious injuries - more than 700 incidents of scalding coffee burns in the past decade have been settled by the Corporation - and yet they never so much as consulted a burn expert regarding the issue.

McFact No. 3: The woman involved in this infamous case suffered very serious injuries - third degree burns on her groin, thighs and buttocks that required skin grafts and a seven-day hospital stay.

Source: http://lawandhelp.com/q298-2.htm

-----

Applying the principles of comparative liability, the jury found that McDonald's was 80% responsible for the incident and Liebeck was 20% at fault. Though there was a warning on the coffee cup, the jury decided that the warning was neither large enough nor sufficient. They awarded Liebeck US$200,000 in compensatory damages, which was then reduced by 20% to US$160,000. In addition, they awarded her US$2.7 million in punitive damages.

However, the judge reduced punitive damages to US$480,000; thus Liebeck was awarded US$640,000 in total. Both McDonald's and Liebeck appealed, and in December 1994, the two came to a confidential settlement, the amount of which is secret, but is believed to be approximately equal to the amount of the final judgment.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald's_coffee_case

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/14/2007 2:21:16 PM   
ThornBlood


Posts: 91
Joined: 3/5/2004
Status: offline
The whole "frivolous" lawsuit is an idea by the big corporations to get away with more than they already do. It's a lie perpetuated by their own advertising, and if you're sucker enough to fall for it, shame on you. These are the same companies that wouldn't put a 5 dollar part in the Ford Pinto, because they calculated that it was cheaper to fight the lawsuits of people that were killed by a known defect than to put the part in. Capitalism has no morals. After they get through raping your pension fund maybe you'll figure out that they are only looking out for themselves.

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/14/2007 2:27:33 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline
Stop holding back ... tell us how you really feel!!!

_____________________________

I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

(in reply to ThornBlood)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/14/2007 2:29:44 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline
You can go over the details of the McDonald's coffee case till your breath runs out; people who have made up their mind that it was all bullshit aren't going to listen or change their opinion.  It's been done several times right here on Collarme.

I don't quite understand the mindset of people who simply dismiss lawsuits without wanting to hear the details, but I've always suspected it was motivated, deep down, by black envy.  "Hey, I've been burned by coffee too--where the fuck is my million dollars?"  And if corporations really didn't believe in "frivolous lawsuits," they wouldn't be the biggest employers of attorneys on the planet.  A corporation will sue for ANYTHING if it thinks there's money to be made in legal action.

(in reply to ThornBlood)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/14/2007 2:35:04 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline
I too think that there is a strong bit of envy involved. "She wound up with loads of money... all because she spilled hot coffee on herself".
That is easier than researching the truth of the matter.

_____________________________


~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).




(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/14/2007 3:04:34 PM   
mastererobert


Posts: 13
Joined: 6/5/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyTeazer

quote:

ORIGINAL: lilsubl

quote:

Organic produce is healthier. But why does it cost so damn much more than "regular" produce??? At least half again as much, often double or more the price. You don't have the added expense of buying numerous chemicals to treat the crops, you don't have the added expense of the time and labor involved to treat the fields, yet organic will "always" cost you more.


one of the reasons that "Organic" produce is more expensive is that less is produced in the same space...in other words, more of the apples on that "Organic" tree do get eaten by the worms...then you have the smaller end products due to lack of the chemical fertilizers & other goodies used to make the "regular" produce, ummmm, produce...so the farmer has less to sell from his acreage...then there are the outbreaks of e.coli from the manure used to naturally fertilize, or from the water used to irrigate it...some farmers have to plow under entire crops due to things like this...

the reason that i put "Organic" into quotes for the purpose of this post is that very little that we get in the marketplace is actually chemical free, because the chemicals used at the "regular" farm are spread through the water table & the air to the "Organic" farm.....





I agree with what you have said, lilsubl.   I should have mentioned those points in My post, but it is difficult to capture 'all' of My thoughts, as My mind works 100 times faster than My fingers do!

Organic produce costs more because the total yield of the crop is less (than 'regular' produce), and the individual fruits and/or veggies are smaller, so the farmer has to try and recover as much of his original expenses as possible.  But still......

I also know that it is not possible for produce to be 100% organic, due to the contamination of the air and ground water.  And sometimes, an entire organic crop will be lost due to contamination, like run-off that carries e. coli  in it. 



LadyTeazer ---- definitely a WOW -- Wonderful Older Woman


I have also read that organic farming is more expensive because more of the actual cost of creating the end product (fruit, veggie, whatever) is passed on to the consumer compared to large-scale conventional farming.  Yes, there are large organic farms, but many more are small farms.  IIRC various tax breaks and subsidies from the government play a big role in determining the final cost at the supermarket and that smaller farms get less of these.  So yes, chemical treatment (pest reduction, size increase) and economies of scale play a role in the cost gap, but politics also appears to contribute to the higher cost of eating well.

So....can we redirect the tax on unhealthy stuff to support smaller organic farmers and help bring the cost of eating healthy down for everyone?  Also, while increased demand for organic/healthy food might increase costs temporarily, the industry is booming and costs should continue to come down long term as supply increases and production methods become more sophisticated/economies of scale kick in.

Last point before I cut this off to avoid ramlingpostitis, but recent research suggests that high soy product consumption might not be the best thing for you.  Considering that many mass market "health products" (e.g. veggie burgers from your previous post) are high in soy, this is another reason to stick with the true health foods (real fruits, veggies, grains, etc) rather than the processed stuff.

(in reply to LadyTeazer)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/14/2007 3:18:06 PM   
MercilessMarcy


Posts: 80
Joined: 11/12/2006
Status: offline
Get ready for the next round of lawsuits.   ta-da!  The people who brought you genetically engineered corn "Star-Link" which got from animal feed to people food (Taco Bell) have a new project!   Star-Link rice!  millions of tons of rice have been destroyed since finding the genetically engineered rice mixed in with it.   No, they can't tell you what it might do to humans, they haven't tested for that....and don't intend to.

(in reply to mastererobert)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/14/2007 5:30:39 PM   
lilsubl


Posts: 4595
Joined: 2/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

You can go over the details of the McDonald's coffee case till your breath runs out; people who have made up their mind that it was all bullshit aren't going to listen or change their opinion.


actually, i have requested more information so that i can learn those details...i had made up my mind that it was all bullshit, but having read the things that have been put forth here, i am in the process of changing my mind...

this reminds me of a time when i was 17 years old & having some heated discussions with my Granfather on a variety of subjects...i would say something that would change the way he was thinking about something, then something he said would get me to looking at that subject differently...at one point, he pounded his fist & yelled, "You can't teach anything new to anyone over the age of 16!!!"  i pointed out where i had taught him something new that day, we had a laugh & went on "discussing" more stuff....

my point??  i AM teachable...& if i am, so are others...never give up trying to teach someone.....


_____________________________

Linea, collarded pet of the evil Sir Max & his lovely & equally evil wife


it's no fun unless you're scared

if you can't be brave, be determined & you'll get to the same place

wannabe member of the subbi mafia

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/14/2007 5:32:14 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline
OK but like people are responsible for their own choices.  Don't punish the corporations!  They're just giving people what they want.  And anyway that might cost jobs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercilessMarcy

No, they can't tell you what it might do to humans, they haven't tested for that....and don't intend to.

(in reply to MercilessMarcy)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/14/2007 5:49:44 PM   
Pulpsmack


Posts: 394
Joined: 4/15/2004
From: Louisiana
Status: offline
Funny how the "discussion is over with a wave of Mighty Master's hand," because he would look ridiculous continuing on with such a discussion, yet we have this 3rd grade sarcastic snipe.

It is just as I thought... you feign indignation and take your bat and your ball to go home just as your argument crumbles around you, then you conveniently forget the moral high road you claim you take to deliver a sophomoric jab. Way to out yourself there, "L&M". See you next hissy fit!  

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/14/2007 8:11:14 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline
I guess you didn't see that I wasn't talking to you?  I was ignoring you.  I know that can be hard to take, but please, people who know how to speak English are higher on my list than you are.  So grab a number and maybe one day I just might get back to you.

Until then, go annoy someone else.

(in reply to Pulpsmack)
Profile   Post #: 80
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: The Fat Tax Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094