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RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 7:54:06 PM   
Pulpsmack


Posts: 394
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From: Louisiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Really, of all the reasons to oppose a fat tax, this has to be one of the weakest.  We should allow fast-food corporations to continue to avoid responsibility for America's obesity epidemic merely because they employ people?  By that argument, we should allow tobacco companies to continue to sell cigarettes without any warning labels.  Let them advertise on TV again, too.  Or why not just let them mass-produce and distribute cocaine while we're at it?  That would certainly create jobs.

If corporations actually took American jobs seriously, I might even be sympathetic to what you're saying.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Casie

I agree that this would affect fast food places more than anyone. But does anyone realize the effects of that, a lot of people would lose jobs.



Maybe she decided to add yet another point since everybody chimed in with the obvious ones beforehand.

As for your criticism about the fast food industry, are you kidding me? What is this "obligation" the fast food chains have that you speak of? They are required to make the basic ingredients and the nutritional information available to the public, which they have. Now they have to hold the consumer's hand and make dietary choices for them? America (in particular and the industrial West in general) has an obesity problem because 1. the lifestyle of the latter 20th/early 21st century American promotes obesity and 2. the masses are too lazy and/or stupid to adapt. 

I agree, we should allow cigarette companies to do away with warning labels, and advertise them on TV. First of all, the hypocrisy is staggering how cigarettes are the Devil incarnate, but alcohol, which has its own harmful properties to human health doesn't have the same warning requirements, AND they are free to advertise on television. If you want to promote alcohol worship on one hand, then you can shut your mouth about those who want to shove flaming sticks in their faces on the other (so long as the smoke is not unleashed upon you). Or, go ahead and vilify cigarettes and call a spade a spade in terms of ALL drugs, including caffeine and alcohol.

Second of all, if you (John/Jane Citizen) are so damn stupid that you do not understand that Big Macs make you fat, cigs & booze pose health risks, the muzzle end of a gun should not be pointed at your face, or that coffee is hot WITHOUT a warning label informing you of this "news", you need to do society a favor and die, preferably before reproducing.

This whole "everybody (with deep pockets) is responsible for what idiots do to themselves" has got to stop. Responsibility belongs to the individual: not the individual's choice of fast food chain, not the government... THE INDIVIDUAL.  Unbelievable.

< Message edited by Pulpsmack -- 7/13/2007 8:08:34 PM >

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 9:30:14 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		You know, at first I was actually going to respond to this, but your tone is so fucking hateful that I'm just going to ignore you.

(in reply to Pulpsmack)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 9:37:14 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
I pay two taxes every time I flush my toilet.


FOS tax?  

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 9:43:03 PM   
lilsubl


Posts: 4595
Joined: 2/6/2006
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quote:

Organic produce is healthier. But why does it cost so damn much more than "regular" produce??? At least half again as much, often double or more the price. You don't have the added expense of buying numerous chemicals to treat the crops, you don't have the added expense of the time and labor involved to treat the fields, yet organic will "always" cost you more.


one of the reasons that "Organic" produce is more expensive is that less is produced in the same space...in other words, more of the apples on that "Organic" tree do get eaten by the worms...then you have the smaller end products due to lack of the chemical fertilizers & other goodies used to make the "regular" produce, ummmm, produce...so the farmer has less to sell from his acreage...then there are the outbreaks of e.coli from the manure used to naturally fertilize, or from the water used to irrigate it...some farmers have to plow under entire crops due to things like this...

the reason that i put "Organic" into quotes for the purpose of this post is that very little that we get in the marketplace is actually chemical free, because the chemicals used at the "regular" farm are spread through the water table & the air to the "Organic" farm.....


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RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 9:49:20 PM   
Invictus754


Posts: 521
Joined: 12/16/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pulpsmack
Second of all, if you (John/Jane Citizen) are so damn stupid that you do not understand that Big Macs make you fat, cigs & booze pose health risks, the muzzle end of a gun should not be pointed at your face, or that coffee is hot WITHOUT a warning label informing you of this "news", you need to do society a favor and die, preferably before reproducing.

This whole "everybody (with deep pockets) is responsible for what idiots do to themselves" has got to stop. Responsibility belongs to the individual: not the individual's choice of fast food chain, not the government... THE INDIVIDUAL.  Unbelievable.


Well said!
L&M, I don't think this was hateful, but passionate.  I have to admit that as the education system in America falters, we are turning into a "victim" society.

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(in reply to Pulpsmack)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 9:50:14 PM   
lilsubl


Posts: 4595
Joined: 2/6/2006
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quote:

Second of all, if you (John/Jane Citizen) are so damn stupid that you do not understand that Big Macs make you fat, cigs & booze pose health risks, the muzzle end of a gun should not be pointed at your face, or that coffee is hot WITHOUT a warning label informing you of this "news", you need to do society a favor and die, preferably before reproducing.


HEAR!!  HEAR!!  i'm all for the general public going back to taking responsibility for their own bad choices!!


_____________________________

Linea, collarded pet of the evil Sir Max & his lovely & equally evil wife


it's no fun unless you're scared

if you can't be brave, be determined & you'll get to the same place

wannabe member of the subbi mafia

(in reply to Pulpsmack)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 9:56:17 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		It was both.  If someone says that anyone who disagrees with him should just die without reproducing, I'll call the conversation off.

Pearls before swine, you know.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Invictus754

L&M, I don't think this was hateful, but passionate.

(in reply to Invictus754)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 10:06:01 PM   
Pulpsmack


Posts: 394
Joined: 4/15/2004
From: Louisiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

You know, at first I was actually going to respond to this, but your tone is so fucking hateful that I'm just going to ignore you.



Good idea, posturing like that gives you the appearance of taking the moral high ground, and it saves you the effort of making yourself looking more ridiculous arguing against what I said. That's probably the best way you can save face in this case.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 10:12:29 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Yes, I agree that I'd look ridiculous arguing with someone who says that anyone who disagrees with him should just die.

And this pissing contest is officially over.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pulpsmack

Good idea, posturing like that gives you the appearance of taking the moral high ground, and it saves you the effort of making yourself looking more ridiculous arguing against what I said. That's probably the best way you can save face in this case.

(in reply to Pulpsmack)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 10:15:26 PM   
rook42


Posts: 110
Joined: 10/2/2005
Status: offline 		*chuckle* Agreed, agreed, on most points. On the other hand.... 190 degree coffee ( Not even possible in most coffee makers- test it and you'll see home coffee comes out at 135 degrees(1)) and "fingerprint-proof" guns(to avoid depreciation due to fingerprints? Come on) are not exactly reasonable risks to expect in a society.


Slight tangent, but I am amazed by the number of people that get their information on these events from the media. I have heard SOOO much erroneous data on litigation that can be easily checked via public records.


(1) On the note of superheated liquids... It's rather fun to play with. Microwave some coffee a couple times. Adding the sugar will cause it to essentially "explode" from the stored energy- would be a great practical joke if it wasnt so dangerous.
On the note of mcdonalds coffee.... The legal argument for having had molten hot lava for coffee is that customers don't drink it as is- they are theoretically to drink it after arriving at home and cooling it. Is this a reasonable argument? It should be noted that McDonalds coffee is now a (more) reasonable temperature- don't use the temperature of "normal" coffee as a guide. Also note that 190 degrees is DARN hot- hot enough to cause skin to melt pretty darn quickly.

"A normal-looking firecracker that has been implanted with the power of a C4 charge is a reasonable risk. After all, firecrackers are known to explode"

(in reply to lilsubl)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 10:15:42 PM   
uwinceismile


Posts: 365
Joined: 5/29/2007
Status: offline 		LOL...
the ever popular,,il quit while I'm not too far behind approach,,,,,,,
rofl

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 10:16:20 PM   
Pulpsmack


Posts: 394
Joined: 4/15/2004
From: Louisiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

It was both.  If someone says that anyone who disagrees with him should just die without reproducing, I'll call the conversation off.

Pearls before swine, you know.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Invictus754

L&M, I don't think this was hateful, but passionate.



It was indeed both.

But I do suggest you re-examine what you thought you comprehended while reading my post before taking the moral high ground and "calling the conversation off" (which I have noticed in past threads is a curious tactic you perform when you are "on the ropes" in an argument). Nowhere in my post did I write that "anybody who disagrees with me should just die without reproducing". I said "anybody too stupid to live life without potentially fatal injury from a lack of warning labels stating that guns should not be pointed at their heads, or coffee is HOT would be doing society a favor by taking themselves out of the gene pool".

Maybe you should re-read what I said, and then read it again. Then you can grace the "swine" with these pearls you claim to withhold, or at least you can take issue with a haughty, arrogant tone under the operative facts of the post, instead of the ones you choose to read into it yourself.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 10:30:21 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pulpsmack
<clip> ... or that coffee is hot WITHOUT a warning label informing you of this "news", ...


You might want to look more closely at the details surrounding these lawsuits, before using them to support your views. Using this is actually ruining your entire point, to anyone that has looked at these cases in detail. 
 
Just a suggestion.

_____________________________

I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

(in reply to Pulpsmack)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 10:50:46 PM   
Pulpsmack


Posts: 394
Joined: 4/15/2004
From: Louisiana
Status: offline 		Actually, here is an interesting Q&A style read about the coffee lawsuit that doesn't seem to undermine my point at all: http://www.overlawyered.com/2005/10/urban_legends_and_stella_liebe.html

Even if you were to establish a line of facts that the restaurant served coffee unreasonably hotter than the industry standard however, it does nothing to remove the "victim's" culpability of sitting there with sweatclothes steeped in the piping hot brew for well over a minute, nor does a subsequent addition of a "Caution, HOT!" warning quantify the danger to the next consumer (which would likely be the next trial lawyer tactic in a subsequent case).  

Nevertheless, I would be perfectly amenable to throw the coffee issue out of the argument altogether. It was just another issue in my mind where the consumer is portrayed as the innocent victim, regardless of that individual's negligence (if not, comparative negligence). There are still more than enough of these examples out there to illustrate the point without the coffee issue.

< Message edited by Pulpsmack -- 7/13/2007 10:58:13 PM >

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 11:01:12 PM   
lilsubl


Posts: 4595
Joined: 2/6/2006
Status: offline 		ok, in the case of the superheated coffee, there was an unreasonable risk...what the media did with that lawsuit made many people feel that they were owed something for injuries that they incurred from simple clumsiness on their own part, or engaging in risky behavior where they were fully aware of the risks...

a case in point:  i have a friend who rode an ATV around a dirt track with hills & all kinds of fun stuff in a vacant lot...he knew the woman who owned the lot & had her permission to ride there...he was fully aware of all the risks of riding there...he had an accident & nearly lost his leg...he sued the woman's insurance company because there were no signs on the property that said he shouldn't be riding there...he did this with the property owner's encouragement...he received over $1,000,000....instead of taking responsibility for his own actions, he sued because there was no warning sign...and freakin won!!!

i had my semi in a shop in Colorado...they said it was going to take some time to fix, so i left the truck, walked across the shop & into the main building...when i came back, i walked back into the shop, in spite of the signs that said i wasn't allowed there, walked across a sidewalk that was hatched in yellow & stumbled off a curb that was also painted bright yellow...i broke my hand & was off work for 9 months...when they realized i was hurt there were all sorts of management types surrounding me, writing down every word i said...the first words out of my mouth were:  "i'm not going to sue, cause i believe you don't get to sue for being stupid!!"  i have been told numerous times that i should sue people because i have fallen on their property...i was having a physical problem:  i was falling!!  that was my fault, not theirs....

so much money is now spent on warning signs that half the time i was unable to find the signs telling me where to back my trailer in at customers due to all the warning signs...& most of them are warnings about common sense things...but without the warning signs, people who have no common sense would be able to sue these companies & win, because they weren't warned....i was even told at one company that putting up directional signs for the truckdrivers was cost-prohibitive...i'm looking at all the warning signs lining the inside & the outside of the building & thinking if they didn't have to put all those up, they could afford the signs that would keep me from getting my tractor & trailer into a mess i might not be able to get out of......


< Message edited by lilsubl -- 7/13/2007 11:02:49 PM >

_____________________________

Linea, collarded pet of the evil Sir Max & his lovely & equally evil wife


it's no fun unless you're scared

if you can't be brave, be determined & you'll get to the same place

wannabe member of the subbi mafia

(in reply to rook42)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 11:25:44 PM   
Pulpsmack


Posts: 394
Joined: 4/15/2004
From: Louisiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rook42

*chuckle* Agreed, agreed, on most points. On the other hand.... 190 degree coffee ( Not even possible in most coffee makers- test it and you'll see home coffee comes out at 135 degrees(1)) and "fingerprint-proof" guns(to avoid depreciation due to fingerprints? Come on) are not exactly reasonable risks to expect in a society.


Whoa, I missed this. "Fingerprint-proof guns" are essentially a myth. There is always ability to take prints from the surfaces of parts when dissassembled as the user would to clean and lubricate, as well as the casings from the ammunition itself. Any surfaces that could come close to being "fingerprint proof" would be the treated external surface, which would be easily wiped with a T-shirt or rag in seconds anyway. While frequent and proper maintenance is the best practice to put in place, most people have no idea how destructive salt from sweat and oils from skin can be to the finish of a firearm, and as such it is certainly a reasonable feature to explore and promote.

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/13/2007 11:35:12 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		OK, did anybody really have an epiphany when they went irrovokably insane?   I know I didn't get any kind of heads up on how do you go from 190 degree coffee to a treatise on guns without fingerprints?  Am I the only one? Is it just me?

Have I been obsoleted by some fine young turk? Am I the problem out here?

Lewis Black




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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/14/2007 6:41:07 AM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		It's possible to find good and accurate information on the Internet ... but the link you posted, isn't one of those times. 

_____________________________

I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/14/2007 12:24:10 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
You might want to look more closely at the details surrounding these lawsuits, before using them to support your views. Using this is actually ruining your entire point, to anyone that has looked at these cases in detail.


Yeah, but he also made other idiot points about product labelling being unnecessary for some reason.

I think product labelling is very necessary.

I don't even feel the need to defend something so obviously correct. I'll just let the idea stand as self-evident.

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: The Fat Tax - 7/14/2007 12:36:51 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		It's not my place to decide what is an idiot point and what isn't. Those points were his opinion. I might not agree with them, but to assume that anything I don't agree with is an idiot point, takes me to a place I really don't want to go.
 
The coffee case on the other hand, is just not an accurate point, as it leaves out very important details about that case, that make it rather obvious why the courts ruled like they did. There is also some clearly false information, such as the reason why several courts wouldn't hear this case.

_____________________________

I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

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Profile   Post #: 60
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