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Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... - 7/14/2007 11:07:09 AM   
GhitaAmati


Posts: 3263
Joined: 5/30/2007
Status: offline 		or is it something you just naturally "are"?

Level made me think of something because of his "are you happy?" thread. I had been in the lifestyle for 7 years when I married a vanilla man. I had taken a break from this lifestyle and decided I didnt "need" is because of some bad experiances. I am glad I took that break because I met the most wonderul man. As time has gone by though, I realized I was only fooling myself back when I decided I didnt need this lifestyle anymore. Even though at the time I had been honest with him about my involvement in the lifestyle, I promised him that I didnt want that type of a relationship anymore. For almost 4 years now we have had a perfect vanilla relationship. About a year ago though, I realized how much I missed the D/s dynamics and he has been wonderful about exploring this lifestyle with me. We bought all the basic BDSM beginner books, we searched out our local munched and play parties and community discussion groups. He's become a wonderful "Top" and is willing to go farther but I dont know if thats even possible. We talk all the time about what we both want out of this....we've decided that for us, D/s is going to be part time...we will still continue to have our equal marriage and family. I know that seems srtange to alot of people on this site but oh well, its what works for us. I dont want to force D/s into more of our time, but the time that we are in that "role" I'd like for it to be more intense. Right now its mainly physical, im admittedly a pain slut, and enjoy the scening at parties, but Id really like for there to be a more "mental" aspect to our play...While he can obviouly learn how to use a multitude of toys, floggers, whips, paddles, and more, and learn how to safely use bondage techniques, is it possible to "learn" the mindset behind it?

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I said I was a submissive, I never said I was a GOOD submissive.


Sex without love is a meaningless experience, but as far as meaningless experiences go its pretty damn good.
~Woody Allen
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RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... - 7/14/2007 11:09:50 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		IMO orientation is innate

Expression of orientation is learned

There's also a large difference between getting into kinky intense play and getting into authority dynamics.  I know some great masters out there who never have and never will get into kinky play- it's just not what they are into.

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

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RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... - 7/14/2007 11:18:36 AM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		I would say you cant conciously learn the desires.

I view dominance and submissive as loose pseudo orientations that categorize people based on natural desires they have.

Other people argue that its defined by actions, personality, choices, etc, but I can come up with good arguments that poke flaws in those definitions.

I've had experiences that have awakened my desires and made me come to understand myself better as to what kind of relationship I want.

I've "learned" the mindset in that I have come to better understand who I am, why I desire the things I do, and what dominance is.

I've changed myself in that I've come to understand and get accustomed to a dynamic that is very different then the vanilla relationships I have had.

But all this is just coming to understand something that was always present to a degree, but I just wasnt aware of.

However, whether these desires are innate like a sexual orientation or nurtured by my past history and enviroment is a question I cant answer.


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Advice for New Dominants
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Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

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RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... - 7/14/2007 11:21:40 AM   
Grlwithboy


Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline 		I think orientation is innate too, but I think the immense adaptability and ability to understand things that people have is often taken for granted. The wall you may find yourself bumping against is wanting him to WANT to do x y or z. Altogether human, altogether frustrating, but not always surmountable IME.  Sometimes he'll never want to take charge of the things you'd like him to take charge of as much as you'd like, you will have to ask for it, he won't reach that conclusion out of the blue as readily as someone who is innately D might. The overall value the relationship has to you will cause you to find a middle ground you can live with happily, or eventually cause a rift. It depends on the couple. 

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RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... - 7/14/2007 11:23:26 AM   
Lashra


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Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		It sounds to me like your asking for two different things from him. Firstly can he be more dominant? Well if he has a dominant personality to begin with, yes I am sure that he can. Perhaps he just needs guidance in ways to dominate you, which is good your reading books. Secondly you say your a painslut and that would mean he would have to be something of a sadist. As a sadist myself I can tell you it is something that comes from within and I am sure I was born this way (just like being dominant). I honestly do not think anyone can learn to be a sadist unless they were to experience some sort of a trauma. To enjoy another's pain is very taboo in our society and frankly unless your really into it, I do not think someone can teach it to you. I love to use my boy for my pleasure, I love the pain he takes for me and ohhh I really get off on humilating him. To know I have absolute control is a rush like no other.

This wasn't something that I learned, it just is a part of me. I perfected my technique over the years but I already had the desire to do this within me. But there is always hope and you can try.

Good luck to you,
~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






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RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... - 7/14/2007 11:34:17 AM   
GhitaAmati


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quote:

It sounds to me like your asking for two different things from him


Thank you for bringing this difference up...sadist and dominance...

As far as the pain play goes..I think we are OK with where we are at, no I dont think he is a sadist, but he knows I enjoy it and he actually enjoys the reaction he gets from me when he whips/flogs/pinches/whatever me. He doesnt intrisically enjoy giving pain, ie: he wouldnt do it just to do it, but he does enjoy giving me pain because he enjoys seeing my pleasure...i have no idea if any of that made sense.

So honestly, what I am asking about, is the authority dynamics...alot of times, I find him asking me what I would like to do next...which is immensly frustrating to me and can drag me out of what ever space im in compleatly. Personality wise, he is a dominant male...naturally he desires to be the "top" in anything he does..its the learning how to express that in a relationship, without the natural instict he has to go "oh god I cant hurt a woman this is all wrong" so hes constantly checking to make sure im OK with it all....

_____________________________

I said I was a submissive, I never said I was a GOOD submissive.


Sex without love is a meaningless experience, but as far as meaningless experiences go its pretty damn good.
~Woody Allen

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RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... - 7/14/2007 11:39:19 AM   
dvart


Posts: 110
Joined: 10/26/2006
Status: offline 		I find this the most interesting post I have seen for a long time.   I firmly believe that we KNOW a lot more about our partners than we realise.   Looking back on my life, I realise that a majority of my partners were naturally submissive. It's just that I didn't realise that I was naturally a Dom. and to a certain extent they didn't realise that they were submissive (less so).   So what I am saying is that either he is closet Dom. understands your needs and everything will be OK or he doesn't really understand you at all in which case your relationship is destined to fail. Your submission isn't just an "add on kink", it defines you as a person.   Many people put up with less than total empathy, but I suspect you are not one of them........

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RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... - 7/14/2007 11:39:40 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		How long have you actively been into it?

Think of it as your service to him- to help teach him to be a better dom.  Suffer some of your happy headspace so that in YEARS to come you'll go places together you never dreamed of.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... - 7/14/2007 11:42:24 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Some reflection of my view already here, there are many things about "being a dominant and being confortable with it" that can be learned.
I go a little further in that I beleive there is even some amount of learning to desire to be the dominant person in the relationship that can be "learned" for lack of a better word.

People adopt behaviours and such when they find tthe behaviour somehow works for them. If you learn you succeed in getting what you want and need through dominance more often than through submission, odds are good you will develope more talent for dominance. The problem comes with comfort if you succeed in getting what you want but are not comfortable with the way you achieved it then it counters the influence success had in how your personality developed.

That said most psycologists will tell you that almost 90% of your personality is set by the age of 5, so if you buy that then you know that we are only messing with less than 10% of our personality by the time we have a really good awareness of who we are.

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RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... - 7/14/2007 11:49:29 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		If none of domianance can be taught then decades of leadership development studies and training the military has been providing has gone for naught, LOL.
I don't believe that people learn the actual dominance as much as it is they learn how to be effective at it, and comfortable with it.




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RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... - 7/14/2007 11:49:40 AM   
GhitaAmati


Posts: 3263
Joined: 5/30/2007
Status: offline 		Me personally, I have been in this lifestyle my whole adult life (and part of my teenage life but thats another story)... I spent several years "really" active in that I was at fetish parties probably every weekend as part of a job for a gentleman who built dungeon furniture...so unforutunantly I am alot more experianced in "play" and public sceneing than I am in adding D/s to my own personal relationship. I have only had two Doms who I would say are more experianced than me. The hubby and I have only been active together for about 6 months. Alot of times it is hard for me to sit back and say, "teaching him does not equal topping from the bottom". definantly a hard thing to get my mind around but I agree it will definantly help things in the long run

_____________________________

I said I was a submissive, I never said I was a GOOD submissive.


Sex without love is a meaningless experience, but as far as meaningless experiences go its pretty damn good.
~Woody Allen

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RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... - 7/14/2007 11:54:08 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Simply being around Dominants who model dominant behaviour will do someone with untapped dominant potential alot of good.
Much of our resistance to being dominant or submissive is socialized baggage, seeing folks who express it openly in a manner that meets with our ethical beliefs will certainly help reduce the extra baggage.

(in reply to GhitaAmati)
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RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... - 7/14/2007 11:55:08 AM   
GhitaAmati


Posts: 3263
Joined: 5/30/2007
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quote:

  If none of domianance can be taught then decades of leadership development studies and training the military has been providing has gone for naught, LOL.


After 24 years in the Military, youd hope he'd know how to take control of a situation by now! lol!

Archer, I saw you were looking at this thread, and I was hoping to get your input on the matter..thank you.

I guess what I was hoping to hear...is that if I continue to "lead" from the bottom, teaching him and letting other Doms that I trust teach him...will it at some point get better?

_____________________________

I said I was a submissive, I never said I was a GOOD submissive.


Sex without love is a meaningless experience, but as far as meaningless experiences go its pretty damn good.
~Woody Allen

(in reply to Archer)
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RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... - 7/14/2007 11:55:45 AM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		Personally, I would say 'orientation is innate' is hoo-haw (and if you try to look it up in the dictionary, you'll see it next to 'malarkey').  But that's just me.

I've known since childhood I was kinky.  I rather learned the rest of it from there.  I like pleasing a partner, even if that means doing very little, or being very nasty.  When I entered the Lifestyle, I didn't say 'Oh, this is what I am'.  I filled whatever hole needed filling, and went from there.  I'm fairly certain I could be whatever it is I wanted to be.

There's a lot of interesting ways to fulfill another's desires.  Oddly enough, you can grow to like it.

Jeff

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Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

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RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... - 7/14/2007 11:57:38 AM   
GhitaAmati


Posts: 3263
Joined: 5/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Simply being around Dominants who model dominant behaviour will do someone with untapped dominant potential alot of good.
Much of our resistance to being dominant or submissive is socialized baggage, seeing folks who express it openly in a manner that meets with our ethical beliefs will certainly help reduce the extra baggage.


Thank you....so I take it me dragging him to FFW is a good idea then?...

_____________________________

I said I was a submissive, I never said I was a GOOD submissive.


Sex without love is a meaningless experience, but as far as meaningless experiences go its pretty damn good.
~Woody Allen

(in reply to Archer)
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RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... - 7/14/2007 12:04:37 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		LOL perspective GhitaAmati perspective, try not to confuse what may be seen as inactive as lacking controling what he feels the need to control.
One of the best lessons I ever learned about dominance was learned watching fur seals in Alaska.
The real "Beach Masters" the term for the top level breeding males, were never the loudest or the most active, they staked their claim to the little section of beach and what happened outside of it was largely ignored. The ones who openly expressed the loud "dominant" behaviour were the up and comming who had yet to establish themselves.

Odds are high I'd bet that it's a matter of him not feeling the need to control anything beyond ABCD and E.
Now it's just a matter of him working from the opposite end of the spectrum. maybe it's a matter of backing into controlled aspects rather than charging in and controling everything and then giving back what he really didn't want to control in the first place.

Can't say for sure obviously but it's a method I have seen work out often in longer term relationships.

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RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... - 7/14/2007 12:10:30 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Now you're making it tough, LOL.
Since I'm presenting classes and I know and love many of the other folks who will also be there, how can I impartially advise if comming down to FFW will be good for him, LOL.

I will say (noting obvious bias) that the weekend can help some folks to see what they already know in the deep recesses of their minds to be true.
One of my favorite quotes from a man I know and love is.
"I'm just a man selling water on the river bank."

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RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... - 7/14/2007 12:32:00 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

If none of domianance can be taught then decades of leadership development studies and training the military has been providing has gone for naught, LOL.
I don't believe that people learn the actual dominance as much as it is they learn how to be effective at it, and comfortable with it.



I agree. People who constantly pontificate about how they are a natural dominant and dont have to do anything more than "act naturally" have their heads in a very uncomfortable place in my opinion..

The desires are natural and the dominance itself is something that is learned.

If good leadership was as simple as "acting naturally", a lot of philosophers have wasted a lot of time in their writings.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to Archer)
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RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... - 7/14/2007 12:33:52 PM   
MasterPunishHer


Posts: 1
Joined: 2/9/2004
Status: offline 		My personal opinion is that one cannot learn to be Dominant, any more than one can learn to be submissive...you are either born with that particular personality trait or not.  That being said, I do believe one can learn to be a BETTER Dominant through ongoing, personal attention to the sub/slave's own needs in regards to service.  The sub/slave has an inborn need to serve and feels most complete when he/she knows they are serving Master/Mistress in every possible way desired.  One must always be aware of the nuances in any D/s or M/s relationship.  Throughout the course of this relationship, the Dominant must always be keenly aware of the sub/slave's need to serve....to please.  As in any relationship, vanilla or otherwise, certain signs, certain covert signals can be ascertained that tell you what the other person needs or wants.  If you feel you are unable to transmit these signals, or unable to pick up on them, a simple, frank, open dialog is the best option.  By completing the sub/slave, the Dominant completes Himself/Herself.

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RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... - 7/14/2007 12:37:22 PM   
Laura


Posts: 573
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline 		My ex would stop everything to ask me if I was mad at him or if I still wanted to do this. He was the one who insisted he was dominant. His stopping for approval and instructions broke the mood for me every time. Yet, if he said a few words just right I was all right and set to go again.

I think you could plan the instructions before you start. Have a game plan, to tell him what to do next and what to do if X happens and you would rather have Y instead. Just work it out before things start. Give him Cliff Notes he can refer to rather than asking you in the moment.

I do think most people can learn to be a Dom. Not just how to use the toys but the feelings and enjoyment behind it. Try different styles of D/s. Maybe you're a pain slut but he isn't really fitting into the slot as the guy who Doms the pain slut. Try other styles, Gorean being one extreme down to just bondage without any frills. Let him see how he fits into D/s. What style gets his engine heating? It may not rev the same way your engine does. But, if he is going to be a Dom you're going to have to be a sub, his in particular, not just a sub in general.


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