RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom....

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Fullfilher -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/14/2007 6:48:51 PM)
quote: There is another D/s couple in our local area, the sub is a massage therapist who isn't really into pain, even though her Dom is a sadist. My hubby has some major muscle problems due to being dropped out of a helicopter..Every so often we go over there or they come over here and she gives my hubby massages while her Dom beats me. Works out well for everyone.... From the above, it seems to me you both are interested in different aspects of BDSM. I enjoy being a Dom, and enjoy playing rough when the time is right. However I still would have issues with with crossing certain lines, drawing blood or deep bruising. I'm just not what I would call a REAL sadist (although I did have fantasies about raping with a hot curling iron before I reached puberty). Assuming you are other wise happy in your marriage it seems you should follow the advice to obediently answer when asked and continue your play with others.

MySweetSubmssive -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/14/2007 7:15:17 PM)
Hello .... I think you can learn to nurture and express your dominant (or submissive) side or learn techniques, but I don't think you can learn yourself into the role. From what you said your OP, it sounds like he is a wonderful service top (heh - some of my favorite people!). He knows what pushes your buttons (sensation play) and seems to be happy to do it. Something like power exchange seems trickier -- if he doesn't want that, I doubt it will work for either of you for him to go through the motions. You mentioned being worked over by the massage therapist's spouse. Would you and your husband be open to you being dominated outside your relationship? As to submissives helping dominants learn, I think that is entirely possible. In the first months that I was "coming out," I was adroitly assisted by a few submissive men who were able to answer questions, assauge my concerns and who were empathetic enough to know when to suggest things, give me feedback about the play, and to have a sense when I knew what I wanted for myself (and therefore to hush up). As to people who say that orientation is innate -- LA and Girlwithboy -- I believe you both have expressed switch tendancies. If orienatation is innate, what does this mean? Or is switchiness innate, too? I know this contradicts the first paragraph, but please humor me, I'm curious. MSS

Grlwithboy -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/14/2007 8:07:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MySweetSubmssive Hello .... I think you can learn to nurture and express your dominant (or submissive) side or learn techniques, but I don't think you can learn yourself into the role. From what you said your OP, it sounds like he is a wonderful service top (heh - some of my favorite people!). He knows what pushes your buttons (sensation play) and seems to be happy to do it. Something like power exchange seems trickier -- if he doesn't want that, I doubt it will work for either of you for him to go through the motions. You mentioned being worked over by the massage therapist's spouse. Would you and your husband be open to you being dominated outside your relationship? As to submissives helping dominants learn, I think that is entirely possible. In the first months that I was "coming out," I was adroitly assisted by a few submissive men who were able to answer questions, assauge my concerns and who were empathetic enough to know when to suggest things, give me feedback about the play, and to have a sense when I knew what I wanted for myself (and therefore to hush up). As to people who say that orientation is innate -- LA and Girlwithboy -- I believe you both have expressed switch tendancies. If orienatation is innate, what does this mean? Or is switchiness innate, too? I know this contradicts the first paragraph, but please humor me, I'm curious. MSS I'm not really a power swtich, so all I can figure out from it is that my brain chemistry releases endorphins when whacked. I'm kind of picky about who I share my endorphins with, but I don't really get mileage out of serving or pleasing other than pleasing myself. :) For the record, I think MOST human brains will release endorphins when you whack the ass - it's people's hang ups about this interesting bit of biology that are where it all gets really interesting. I think the vast majority of people are not Kinsey 0's and 6's and so it is with D/s. What you choose to do about that is anyone's guess. I personally don't feel the need to identify as "a switch" because there is no omnipresent submissive or even bottom drive - I like it like I like skiing - if I miss a season or seven entirely I'm OK with that, but I have skiied and loved it. As a Dominant and an owner, I'm pretty free form and yet intense when I mean it - which dovetails with everything else about my personality (I'm a creative, neither a follower nor a born leader type, very relaxed about most things but exceptionally passionate and particular about the things I make myself.) The more I've matured and the more I've explored, the more my play and my MO has aligned with these fundamental observations about myself - so normally while I ascribe a LOT of importance to nurture and development, I can't completely throw out any and all essentialism entirely. I think essentialism is often over-emphasized though. I totally agree with what you said in the first paragraph. And I also think that much more balanced switching is an innate orientation, as is the elusive Kinsey 3.

Lordandmaster -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/14/2007 8:14:56 PM)
Archer, the point wasn't that you didn't specify clearly, but that I don't agree that watching other people is always helpful. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it isn't. quote: ORIGINAL: Archer LOL another instance of just not enough disclaimers to satisfy everyone, LOL. More a matter of stopping short of a complete reccomendation and leaving off some things I figured could be assumed. Sure not everyone is a great role model for everyone else, but they might also model behaviour that we dislike which is valuable also. The statement was ment to draw on the idea you stated "I think the real key is to look inside yourself, and have the courage to be what you know you are." Being around others who display dominant behaviour shouldn't be a mindless mimicry of their behaviours but examining their behaviours and modeling your own on what you see that you like and at the same time avoiding those behaviours you have seen others do that rankled your sense of "that just aint right". Seeing people who are comfortable within their dominance or submisiveness will certainly help most people to become more comfortable with their own in more cases than it does not. But certainly a valid point that I didn't specify clearly.

MadRabbit -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/14/2007 8:15:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy I think the vast majority of people are not Kinsey 0's and 6's and so it is with D/s. What? You are saying because someone has one experience that is in a context outside of those normally associated with their chosen identity they arent automatically a switch? You radical.

Grlwithboy -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/14/2007 8:18:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit quote: ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy I think the vast majority of people are not Kinsey 0's and 6's and so it is with D/s. What? You are saying because someone has one experience that is in a context outside of those normally associated with their chosen identity they arent automatically a switch? You radical. Why thank you! Although I guess for some people it's like that old joke -- "suck just ONE cock and...."

MadRabbit -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/14/2007 8:21:13 PM)
Yeah...its amazing how an open minded desire for new experiences and exploration automatically translates to a confusion or misunderstanding of their own little box they are supposed to be in.

Grlwithboy -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/14/2007 8:29:37 PM)
So how does one arrive at that box - the one you want to check? In my case it was a question of trying a lot of things and watching what fell away till whatever was left felt organic and right and true to myself. Is that the part that I had all along at the outset or is it the result of the experiences I had and their sum total, and could I not have arrived where I am any other way? I guess this isn't entirely a hijack - there are a lot of ways that Tops/Dominants/Masters and their corresponding counterparts arrive at a sense of who they are - the person you're with today may or may not look exactly the same in five years. Even within an orientation, people change a lot and learn and expand comfort zones a lot.

MadRabbit -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/14/2007 8:32:37 PM)
Oh I agree. I equate people who try and decide other people's identities based on past experiences with someone telling me that because I have drunk coffee for 5 years and one day discovered a new found love for hot tea, that I am in fact really a coffee drinker and just confused regarding my love for tea. Edited to Add : I think this is very material to the discussion. I disagree that these orientations people take on and what they mean are as clear cut as a simple desire for one type of gender over the other. This is why I call them pseudo orientations.

Grlwithboy -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/14/2007 8:51:08 PM)
The OP, if I'm not mistaken talked about being at a loss when her D makes her make decisions about things - but I find I do this with my guys. I delegate because there are some, no, a LOT of decisions that I'd rather not make. You can view letting someone else make your decision as deferring to them, but you can also see how having someone else make your decision is delegation. I have my travel arrangements made by my slave, and key decisions related to them, because it's something that stresses me. So decisiveness, interest in making decisions - yes, they're Dominant traits. I'm more of a macro person though, so relegating some of those mundane details I'm not so hot at to someone else is a perk - to me. I think my husband really chafes when I do that, but submits. He doesn't like making a choice about a lot of things, but realizes that that's something that makes me happy and that I recognize and acknowledge the fact that he's doing something he would rather not for me. It gains him some praise and stroking, and it keeps me sane and happy. What I'm saying is that we tend to have a whole host of human traits and we're often trying to look at all of them through the lens of who the person is. When you purport to serve someone, they're going to swerve some from your ideal - it's just natural. How much and in what ways and whether they swerve in radical and dealbreaking ways are the predictors of success or not.

Rover -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/14/2007 9:05:32 PM)
I'm often reminded of a line from a Rush song... "If I choose not to decide, I still have made a choice". I'm with you in that there are many things that simply do not matter to me. Feeling the need to make every decision in life, or in a power exchange relationship, smacks of "uber Dominant" from some fantasy fictional novel (or micromanagement to borrow from a previous thread). John

mastererobert -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/14/2007 9:28:32 PM)
Absolutely. Having a sub that is well trained enough to manage things within a pre-defined range of choices is one of the benefits of being a Dom in my mind. I want things MY way, but I would hate to always have to guide every movement like a puppeteer. quote: ORIGINAL: Rover I'm often reminded of a line from a Rush song... "If I choose not to decide, I still have made a choice". I'm with you in that there are many things that simply do not matter to me. Feeling the need to make every decision in life, or in a power exchange relationship, smacks of "uber Dominant" from some fantasy fictional novel (or micromanagement to borrow from a previous thread). John

mastererobert -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/14/2007 9:48:36 PM)
GA, As a new Dominant who just went through the transition from vanilla to Dominant, I really want to help out here with my experiences. However, it may be telling of the difficulty of communicating this type of thing effectively that I have rewritten this message three times already. :-) If my previous LTR partner had asked me to be Dominant, I don't think I would have known what to do (yes I could have figured out the tools, but not how to take control). I also am not sure that I could have made the transition within the context of our existing relationship. I am sure it is possible for some, but I had very rigid views of how the two of us "should" (god I hate that word now) interact and that would have been a major hinderance. Only after we broke up and purely by chance did I discover the seed of my Dom self within. Since then I have been unlearning many self-repressive behaivors. But the key to it all for me is that I get a genuine rush of positive feeling when I interact with someone in a P/E type situation. Yes, I am mildly sadistic and all that, but for me the P/E is key. Is this something you can discuss with your partner? Try to find out if he actually gets something out of P/E? Of course he may not be in touch with that feeling (yet) or want to deny it not to be the bad guy (I used to struggle with that kind of thing), but if he has the feeling, you have a lot to work with. At that point it may just be a matter of helping him learn that the feeling is ok to have and act upon and to unlearn blocking patterns (treat a woman such and such a way, etc.). I think this turned into a bit of a ramble. Let me know if you want me to clarify anything here.

robertolapiedra -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/15/2007 12:07:56 AM)
Hello welshwmn3. Being in a teaching role does not automatically equate to being dominant at the relationship level. A submissive can teach a dominant, and I do not think it is that uncommon outside relationships (munches, clubs, social events.) What I was referring to, is the submissive "driving" the car when she wants her dominant to drive. "Stop the car, and sit on the passenger side". The dominant must drive the car, Yes? It may not be to one's liking at first, but if he wants his sub as a driving teacher, she does not have to "top" him to give him the information he requires. You can still be in a submissive mode while doing this. I was just talking about not letting stereotypes bog down the process of building a dynamic. All dynamics are different. I have no way of knowing about the "natural" orientations of this couple. But I can suggest an approach that would help bring out whatever is there. At this stage, I just dont think the "servicing" aspect is the most important thing on the "building" agenda. Thanks for your experienced input, it is most appreciated. RL.

wwwkevinww -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/15/2007 3:17:34 AM)
I've seen alot of people in their profiles where either dom or submissive and then moved to the other spectrum. One woman was interested in any guy kinky, whether sub,switch, or dom. There are naturally born leaders, but you can also teach someone how to lead and have them do it effectively. Leading and dominance I think are similar.

chadra -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/16/2007 6:46:43 AM)
Sorry if I'm late to this thread. I read it with great interest - thanks to all who participated. For what it's worth, I've experienced (and continue to experience on... and off... and on...) a similar exploration in my own relationship. I would say the following quotes are very true and said better than I could say them myself. quote: I think orientation is innate too, but I think the immense adaptability and ability to understand things that people have is often taken for granted. The wall you may find yourself bumping against is wanting him to WANT to do x y or z. Altogether human, altogether frustrating, but not always surmountable IME. Sometimes he'll never want to take charge of the things you'd like him to take charge of as much as you'd like, you will have to ask for it, he won't reach that conclusion out of the blue as readily as someone who is innately D might. The overall value the relationship has to you will cause you to find a middle ground you can live with happily, or eventually cause a rift. It depends on the couple. quote: Alot of times it is hard for me to sit back and say, "teaching him does not equal topping from the bottom". definantly a hard thing to get my mind around but I agree it will definantly help things in the long run quote: You will need to be patient, and work through the times when he 'backslides'. But if he really wants to do it, the payoff can be wonderful. :) And, unfortunately, I suspect the following is also true... quote: You can learn the "moves" and how to make sounds like a Dom.. but if it is not your heart, you never will "be ...But you know, that's okay. Or it can be if you let it. It's not to say that the person can't make a wonderful partner. I believe if the relationship is close enough and strong enough, people can make it work out. In my own experience, I would say that if both people are willing and able to meet each others needs and are ready to recognize the difference between reality and fantasy land... it can be highly rewarding. It just takes a little more work from both people if it isn't there "naturally". Just mho.

SimplyMichael -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/16/2007 10:04:16 AM)
Considering how many men and even women start out as dominants and turn into submissives and how many submissives turn into dominants, I find the notion that you can "tell" where a person is on the spectrum when they are new a bit silly, especially when they are not strongly identified one way or the other. Take any skill, you can teach people to drive fast, cops, paramedics, fireman, bodyguards, and racing fans all learn to drive fast. Most people never move past that advanced skill level, very very few ever move to the top. It is easy to teach a great deal of a skill but one cannot teach the art of it, you either have it or find it but you can't buy it. That said there is a fundamental difference between racing and doing BDSM. In racing, everyone is driving a similar car on the same track. If you are doing BDSM right, you are "driving" a unique partner on a custom track unique to your relationship. Which means that the art of doing it in SOME ways is less important and is definetly not as narrowly defined. When I was a fluffy dom I had women who loved that, I am now a bit darker and more sadistic and I have a woman who loves that but wouldn't have wanted me when I was more fluffy. Same goes on the back side of what you "enjoy" or "need". Just like being educated about wine or a sport increases your enjoyment and interest in it, I think being educated and becoming more skillful as a top increases your enjoyment of dominating if you have an inclination in that direction. In an attempt to not sound so preachy, I think that being dominant isn't as "special" as some want to make it out to be. What I do isn't magical in the sense that I pull it out of my ass. Instead it is a group of skills learned over time which is why I am better now than I was ten years ago. Dominance is a learned skill.

GhitaAmati -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/16/2007 10:16:42 AM)
Thank you Michael ghita~

chadra -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/16/2007 10:49:51 AM)
quote: Dominance is a learned skill. By this do you mean the act of dominance, or the orientation of dominance? That is an honest question. It's a fine point, but to me there is a distinction.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Can you "learn" to be a Dom.... (7/16/2007 11:19:40 AM)
quote: While he can obviouly learn how to use a multitude of toys, floggers, whips, paddles, and more, and learn how to safely use bondage techniques, is it possible to "learn" the mindset behind it? why not? same goes for "learning" to be a sub or slave or whatever other label one cares to interject. some folks report being "inspired" to it by another single individual, or feel it is an important part of their internal "balance" to have learned to embrace what they perceive to be both sides of themselves. it hasn't been this slave's personal experience, but it surely isn't this slave's place to go about saying it isn't possible or healthy. "learn", however, is not going to necessarily equate with "enjoy", "feel comfortable with", "want to continue" or "be good at", though. this slave has been put through various "Dom" training scenarios, the longest of which lasted for years and seemed like an eternity. to enjoy it, or feel it needed to be a necessary part of this slave's life ran so hard against the grain of her nature she can't imagine striving for it on a personal level---it almost sucked the life right out of this slave, to have to play that dominant role. sometimes a "role" is just that, and this slave has met some very convincing actors, others...not so much.[:)] good luck!!!

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