quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

In talking to Jack Rinella (A well known BDSM author) last night after his speaking engagement, he pretty much blew holes in the "natural dominant" bullshit adhered to by many.  My opinion is that dominance is a skill like any other, one can learn to do it even if you don't enjoy it.  How many of us become good at a job that they have to PAY us to do after all.  You can't teach someone to enjoy it and want to do it for free but it CAN be taught and learned.

Did Jay Wiseman have some conclusive randomized double blind study of dominance that I missed?

I'm trying to figure out how he blew holes in a theory without some conclusive proof.  Unless this is just an issue of differing theories, of one that you happen to ascribe to.

C~

Edited for typos.

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ORIGINAL: Rover

In point of fact, ghita, the vast majority of those in the armed forces are taught to follow orders.  Period.  Only a select few are chosen for leadership training.
 
John

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ORIGINAL: Archer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

In point of fact, ghita, the vast majority of those in the armed forces are taught to follow orders.  Period.  Only a select few are chosen for leadership training.
 
John

Actually to be promoted past E-4 you have to attend a leadership school according to current policy.
WLC leadership training for E-3's and E-4's
BNCO for E-4's 5's 6's
ANCO for E-6's and 7's
Command Seargent Major's School for E-8's and 9's.

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ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy

(general reply)
When I was professional, I came into contact with another pro. She had it all. The looks, the psychological insight, the cojones, the stamina, the compassion, the love of play, the love of submissive men - she had it all--

except any interest in doing it at home without being paid.

You can definitely be taught to be dominant.  You cannot be taught to be *A* dominant. I had nothing on her skills wise, or otherwise, but I *need* it at home and I need it in my life.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy

(general reply)
When I was professional, I came into contact with another pro. She had it all. The looks, the psychological insight, the cojones, the stamina, the compassion, the love of play, the love of submissive men - she had it all--

except any interest in doing it at home without being paid.

You can definitely be taught to be dominant. You cannot be taught to be *A* dominant. I had nothing on her skills wise, or otherwise, but I *need* it at home and I need it in my life.

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ORIGINAL: LadySeraphina

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ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy

(general reply)
When I was professional, I came into contact with another pro. She had it all. The looks, the psychological insight, the cojones, the stamina, the compassion, the love of play, the love of submissive men - she had it all--

except any interest in doing it at home without being paid.

You can definitely be taught to be dominant. You cannot be taught to be *A* dominant. I had nothing on her skills wise, or otherwise, but I *need* it at home and I need it in my life.

I think that's a lovely point, and many of my boys (read: clients) comment on that - what a difference it is to play with a lifestyler.

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ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

In point of fact, ghita, the vast majority of those in the armed forces are taught to follow orders.  Period.  Only a select few are chosen for leadership training.
 
John

Actually, this isn't true for the army or, at least wasn't true when i was serving.  i enlisted in 1974 and served until 1987.  Everyone, not just a few chosen ones, was required to attend and successfully graduate from the army's Primary Leadership Development Course (PLDC), in order to be promoted to sergeant.  It can be delayed for awhile, under certain circumstances (such as serving in a combat area) but, once redeployed and remaining in the service, attendance and completion of PLDC is required.  But, even prior to that, in Basic Training, we each had to spend at least a day being the squad leader and learning to march the squad and give commands to come to "attention", go to "at ease" or "parade rest", etc.   i never wanted to be in charge of anything, but when the army has a need, it fills it with whoever is available.  For one thing, if a squad is out in the field and the squad leader gets taken out, someone had better be able to step in and take charge of the rest of that unit or it will be a very messed-up situation and that wouldn't be good for those soldiers or the army.  They need to be able to carry-on, even when the designated leader is no longer able to lead.  That means that every person in that unit needs to be trained well enough to, at least, lead what's left of their unit, back to safe ground.  Being a soldier is a lot more than just being able to follow orders.  Soldiers are not a bunch of mindless robots.  They are (for the most part, with some exceptions) well trained, well disciplined, well motivated and well organized.  They learn to do a job.  Not all soldiers are trained to be snipers or machine gunners or "killers."  In fact, the vast majority of the army is trained in support roles, not combat roles.  For every infantryman, there are at least 6 other soldiers doing "desk jobs" to support him.  Every soldier has to learn and be qualified to fire an M-16 rifle, but that is as much for self defense as it is for assault purposes. When the female sergeant, who was the non-commissioned officer in charge (NCOIC) of the female barracks (yes, back when we were housed separately from the males), was transferred out of our unit, the First Sergeant informed me that i was the new NCOIC of the female barracks.  i didn't like that job.  It was a huge pain, to me.  But, i was the one put in charge and that's what i had to do.  When i was promoted to sergeant, i was also made the squad leader of 8 guys, (yes, all males) in my radio-teletype platoon.  i had to be in charge of them getting the work done or my ass was the one that would get chewed out. i never liked being in a leadership position, but i was put in that role and i did it.  It was just a part of my job requirement.  Neither the training nor the experience as a small unit leader, within the army, made me become a Dominant.  It never changed me from my submissiveness.  But, my submissive nature is and always has been a characteristic of my personality that is only relevant and apparent within my personal and intimate relationships, never in my work relationships. Just the perspective of this particular army veteran and submissive female. slave joyOwned property of Master David "Commitment transforms a promise into a reality."

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ORIGINAL: Archer

The capacity for dominance is then what is at issue rather than can it be taught at all.
Within a reasonably normal bell curve of personality you can certainly teach the skills it takes to be a leader.
Almost everyone in the military becomes an NCO Non commissioned officer leading a small group of younger less experienced members within a couple years. Fire team leader Squad leader Section Leader etc.

You cannot give somone the experience of what it is like and thus seperate the theory from the practice in most clasroom settings. This seems to apply across all disciplines. (I've lost count of the engineers who design things that a field tech knows won't flippin work in the real world) I also found much of the theoretical aspects of management classes to be dull and lack real world feasibility, but when the lessons can be applied, and tested against various situations the value is often found but rarely where they say it will be. Leadership reaction courses (likely 40 hrs total time) in the military taught me as much if not more than all the classroom hours combined.

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ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

I know didly squat about the military, but I can say with a bit of surity that I didn't find that management and/or leadership classes  actually prepare someone to be a leader or a manager (being a manager is vastly different than being a leader).  Like I said earlier, I think through walking through the fire you discover you are or you aren't.  And I think the same is true for dominance.  You can have things trigger it or catalysts for self-discovery, but if its not there its not there. 

C~