RE: Bullies (Full Version)

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LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Bullies (7/16/2007 12:04:19 PM)

I think it's perfectly reasonable for someone who is maintaining the household to require some standard of behavior from its occupants.

10 pm might be weird, not giving one to a sibling might suck.

Oh well. 




BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: Bullies (7/16/2007 12:07:10 PM)

NO a good suggestion in my opinion.she can't follow rules at home just think what the military will bring on..recurits referred? I am a retired major and have yet to see a dime to those I refer..bounty




satyrsnymph28 -> RE: Bullies (7/16/2007 12:08:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I think it's perfectly reasonable for someone who is maintaining the household to require some standard of behavior from its occupants.

10 pm might be weird, not giving one to a sibling might suck.

Oh well. 


Except its not "oh well" to me...
its undue drama

and even beyond that... i have no support in that house at all...

my father is even trying to get me to quit my job right now because its not full time...
i think slightly more than part time is certainly better than no time at all...

"you've never spent more than three months at a job" is what he says... and now that i've been here for 8 months he's telling me to quit...

doesnt make much sense to me

and no, i dont have any intention of going into the military in any way, shape or form...




winterlight -> RE: Bullies (7/16/2007 12:14:27 PM)

anything u get at a place for free or even salvation army etc make sure u fumigate the furniture because they could be bedbugs in the furniture.
put a plastic bag over it and spay inside of the bag...

can u work as a camp counselor. are u near a ballpark? u might be able to get a job there..waitressing as mentioned before. it is attitude and aptitude that will help u
in the long run..




popeye1250 -> RE: Bullies (7/16/2007 12:14:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GhitaAmati

I agree with popeye...the Military is a great solution for alot of people....you dont have to actually make a decision now, but talk with a recruiter..see what they say. You might be pleasently surprised...and if you DO sign up....put my Sirs name down as who told you to go....retired military gets money for getting new people to sign up

ghita~


Ghita, true. Some people think that once they walk into a recruiter's office they have to go right then. Not true!
You can go in and talk to as many as you want as many times as you want.
They'll give you a lot of different tests to see what type of job you'd be good at and enjoy before you make a decision.
And if you decide you don't want to go in it didn't cost you a dime and you gained a lot of useful information!




winterlight -> RE: Bullies (7/16/2007 12:16:27 PM)

i don't like the suggestion of military. Although i have much praise for all the military men and women past and present. I really do NOT like the idea that they are exposed to a host of chemicals etc. We have seen it time and time again on the news about people getting sick.




lilsubl -> RE: Bullies (7/16/2007 12:18:01 PM)

quote:

Wow... My mom hasn't SAID that was why she adopted me... but I SOOOOO feel it sometimes...


LOL...i don't look like anybody in my family, so when we were small, people would comment on that fact & ask, "where did you get this one?"  my parents would joke about it & i thought i really was adopted & that's why she treated me so badly...then i thought it was because she was in labor with me for a week...& on & on...the reality was, she had a poor role model for parenting, she had untreated depression, & she flat out just never much liked kids...& as an adult it struck me that she never purposely set out to harm me, that she did the best that she could with the tools that she had......

we did all the housework...i ironed standing on a chair so i could reach...i started doing dishes when i was too small to reach, so they would set me on the counter to do it...after my sister & i had moved out & were on our own, she had to hire someone to clean the house for her...i'm sitting her smiling as i type this & i hope that someday you will look back on this & smile also...




GhitaAmati -> RE: Bullies (7/16/2007 12:19:49 PM)

quote:

NO a good suggestion in my opinion.she can't follow rules at home just think what the military will bring on..recurits referred? I am a retired major and have yet to see a dime to those I refer..bounty


I dont know Bounty, its something we just got in the mail a few weeks ago. Sir just retired from 24 years Marines/then Army a few months ago. We got this package telling us to refer people and get paid for it. I think its silly and I said it to her more as a joke than anything...but I digress

Yes I agree that the Military is definantly not for everyone, and if you balk at authority of any kind, it might not be for you, But I do agree that it was a good suggestion...and it seems to me that she isnt balking at authority, just at authority that is not the same for everyone...and Im sure you know that in the Miltary, they cuss at you all the same..lol...

I hope that she got more out of my post than just a suggestion to join the Military, I suggested it might be something to look into, but not a solution...my solution on how to cope is to keep telling herself that she is only putting up with hell to save money to give herself something better. Everytime something happens that sucks, remind herself that the longer she puts up with it, the more money she'll have when its time to move out.

ghita~




domiguy -> RE: Bullies (7/16/2007 12:24:28 PM)

Katie Holmes you are a cute girl...But enough is enough...Get the fuck away from these people who are making you so miserable....The more you rant the more it becomes probable that you are primarily the cause of all of your own problems....I'll throw you a bone...

http://www.roommateclick.com/roommates/roommate-needed/California-Modesto-95350.htm

Go on and search for roommates wanted in you area...You might be surprised at what you will find.

Get out...Good luck....And stop whining..




satyrsnymph28 -> RE: Bullies (7/16/2007 12:26:03 PM)

Katie Holmes is a new one for me, domiguy...

normally i get "you look like a fat christina ricci"

or

a young drew berrymore




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Bullies (7/16/2007 12:31:10 PM)

quote:

Except its not "oh well" to me...
its undue drama

Which you need to think of as "oh well."

The game I played with myself when I was getting stuck in places was to ask myself "If I were the perfect mature stable Me at age 28, what would I do?"  Then I'd envision it and go do that.

Try it.

You need to smile at everyone in your house, you need to rise above it, you need to suck it up and just accept that it is what it is.  THEY WILL NOT CHANGE.

You can only change your situation.  Once you are out of their direct control, in time you will be able to train them to treat you like the mature independent adult you are- only after you've actually been such for a few years.




SeeksOnlyOne -> RE: Bullies (7/16/2007 12:32:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: satyrsnymph28

quote:

ORIGINAL: GhitaAmati

To the OP: I dont know if I can tell you how to "deal" with your situation...But I can tell you I lived it for many years. My mother flat our told me the only reason she adopted me was to have someone help her with the housework.


Wow... My mom hasn't SAID that was why she adopted me... but I SOOOOO feel it sometimes... but my brother is adopted too...

i think the difference is, i met my bio mom and he hasn't and doesn't want to meet his...

maybe she feels some comfort in that...



i am adopted, and searched for my bio family when i got pregnant-my brother is adopted also-and has no desires to find his.....i have given talks to prospective adoptive parents, letting them know how i felt about it-that i was the only person without a choice at the time of my birth-and explain to them how my mom and dad were mom and dad-yet i needed to find out where i came from........

i left at 17, for reasons i cant even remember today-but at that time they seemed important to me.......when you are ready, you will leave....til then, deal with it.....i joined the army at 19-and it helped me in so many ways.........of course we werent having kids come home in body bags then, for something i totally disagree with, so ......

you can always get out-pay by the week motels, sleeping in your car, theres always an option....my son is 19 and still lives with me-and he better let me know where he is and when he is coming home.....he also better cut the grass when i tell him to and take out the trash......if i say to do it-he has a choice-do it or move out.......its that simple.........you have the same choice.......




popeye1250 -> RE: Bullies (7/16/2007 12:35:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: winterlight

i don't like the suggestion of military. Although i have much praise for all the military men and women past and present. I really do NOT like the idea that they are exposed to a host of chemicals etc. We have seen it time and time again on the news about people getting sick.


Winter, yeah, you're right, much better to slave away in a service sector job like a 7'11 for $9 an hour with no benefits and the chance of being shot in a robbery as you're scrubbing the floor or taking out the trash.
Then, you go to college nights for 8 years to get your degree and put yourself in debt for $100k but, you then go to the "Bigtime", a degree and $12 an hour at *Starbucks* where you can tell "college stories" with all your "colleagues" many of whom share a rented overpriced apartment because they'll never qualify financially to buy their own place. And they have a learning challenged kid who only got an "Associate's Degree" takes out the trash so you don't have to! Man, you have ARRIVED!
A few of your other "colleagues" still "at home with the parents" in their 30's.
Or, you could work in a department store and make $8 per hour but "dress nice."
When I got out of the Navy in 1974 I'd managed to save $9,000, a good chunk of money in those days.




KatyLied -> RE: Bullies (7/16/2007 12:41:44 PM)

I don't understand why you don't attempt to find a roommate and find a place and split the costs.  If you are near a college town you could probably find 3 or 4 roommates and split costs.  It's better to be proactive and take steps to remedy the situation than to whine about how your parents show favoritism toward your brother, how people eat your food, etc.  Who knows why your family does this stuff?  Could be that they are just mired in some dysfuction that runs deeply.  Take the high road.




Termyn8or -> RE: Bullies (7/16/2007 1:08:40 PM)

To the OP.

First of all be glad you got somewhere to stay. If you have a few chores, fine, but don't let it get ridiculous.

Point number one. The curfew, this must be solved. It is inappropriate except in some rare instances. You have two options. First of all do not bitch about having to do the dishes while goldenboy sits on his ass over there. If I could do dishes rather than make a house or rent payment every month I would deal with it. But I agree about the curfew, so there are two options.

First and best would be a second shift job, one that absolutely prevents you from getting home by 10 PM. Let the sparks fly. Handle it. IF they start this crap about don't come home of it isn't by 10 PM with you just say "Fine", see you tomorrow. Sleep in your car across town. DO NOT let them know where you are, and I would mention before you leave for work "If you move my shit out to the garage again it is staying there".

Absent the second shift job there is a secondary, less desirable plan. TELL them, DO NOT ASK them, that you are going to be late. See what happens. This will take a bit more ass and backbone, but when the shit hits the fan, expect the worst.

Now here are some questions you need to answer before any large amount of self assertion. Is your car in YOUR name ? Did you pay/or are paying for it ? Do you have your own insurance or are you on their policy ? If you are still on their policy are you paying them for your portion of the premium ? This is important. If that car is really your's it will be a great tool.

If they can be induced to excuse a cerfew violation because of your whim, they can remove the curfew altogether, so that is not a bad direction to take. Make sure if you do this that you assert that you will be hanging around with friends, this is your choice as an adult. They will probably say don't come home at all then, to which you reply "OK, see you tomorrow". Maybe.

Hopefully you have a bank account, time this right around payday. Get a motel room after a day or three, get a nice shower, perhaps if you can afford it buy a nice outfit, a tasteful one, nothing gawdy. Save that for the second time you have to assert yourself. Power hungry people do not change, so even if it all works to your advantage and you get some respect, don't expect it to last forever.

In my opinion, psychologically, for all concerned, the curfew issue is the first target. If your car is in their name, or perhaps they bought it for you a while back, and it's on their insurance, I am sure you can find someone to go out drinking with. Show up at 3 AM. Test their resolve. I mean it. That can go a long way for you, and I admit it could backfire.

But there is one thing very important to learn in life, you will never win of you are not willing to lose. If I had to do dishes and take out the garbage in lieu of rent I would be happy as a lark. I would complete my tasks cheerfully. What it would pay to just do that would never be enough to pay for this place. It's like when my boss bitches at me, a very rare occurrence. I think to myself "Well you are the fucker with the palatial estate and the 40' boat". This is all other bullshit. Do the dishes, that is not really the issue.

The first and foremost issue is the curfew. You see that, and I see that as an undermining of your supposed adulthood. I'm not going to tell you to get out like others. You have your reasons right now. It would be best, but you said it is simply not on the table right now.

So you have to gain their respect, and you can't win if you are not willing to lose. What is the punishment for breaking the curfew ? Do you get grounded ? If so do you have car keys ? Rebellion can be very effective when used properly. But you still need to be willing to lose.Even if you are not willing to walk out the door, you must make them think you are. I don't see any other way to cope with this. And that is what you asked so I will refrain from giving carreer advice. And my advice on that is just as radical, and to use it you need a marketable skill.

I assume that is what you want, go to school or something and eventually get a good job. All of these issues will seem to evaporate once you get some earning power. Things could change in a heartbeat, but you just want to make it better for now. Rebellion is your only tool. Use it wisely. I would not refuse to do a chore if I was living there rent free. But other things, well, you might just have to go find out how much they will miss you.

In either case, you need a life outside those walls. I doubt you could ever have friends over there, or want to, and that is a miserable existence. I agree, but the difference is I wouldn't stay. I have lived under a bush in front of a church on Detroit road in Lakewood Ohio. I would do it again faced with these circumstances.

I don't expect you to have the guts to do this, but I would stay away for a few days and not shower or bathe. I would show up and ask if my shit was in the garage yet, because I am going to take it and sell it so I can stay the fuck out of here. But that's me. I have been doing whatever I want whenever I want since I was 12. So the situation is not the same.

The thing to realize is that they care about you, at least a little bit. This has been a disadvantage to you, and although I am generally against it, in this case it might be time to use their concern against them. In my opinion it is justifiable.

I have lived with Parents, even Grandparents as an adult. They did not fuck with me like that. Of course I couldn't crank my 400 watt stereo, but whaddya want for nuthin ?

The ironic thing is that if you actually moved out it would change their attitude about you in a New York minute. One day you will see that. It will happen eventually, but for now just attack that curfew. It is like the fulcrum, the crux of the matter right now.

Next question : Do they ever say if you don't like it get the fuck out ? That affects how you need to handle this, it makes a difference.

Don't jump to do this, plan it very carefully. Later comes step two.

T




fadedlace -> RE: Bullies (7/16/2007 1:41:44 PM)

*edited to add , this was meant as reply to the OP...sighs @ my ineptitude about replying...*

I'm not very PC, and I'm a parent.

My adult offspring is staying with me and my little UM right now in my home.  (I'm a widow taking care of the house and bills and everything by myself and barely making ends get even close to meeting.)  She, in spite of her prior teenage MEMEMEMEMEME Life Is Not Fair years, fully realizes it's a FAVOR I'm doing for her to allow her to stay here rent-free and to pay nothing for her own food or upkeep past her personal expenses for her car.  I don't rub that favor in her face, and she doesn't go out of her way to irritate me.  She's working full-time and paying her past-due bills.  We both know when she gets back on her feet, she'll be on her own again.  Oddly, the few rules of conduct in the home that I required that set her off as a woebegotten teenager, she finds VERY lax now - I'm, according to her, "a cool mom."  I didn't change...SHE did...she grew up and realized the world did NOT revolve around her wants, her needs, and what she wanted to do.

From this side of the coin, I have to ask...have you considered that despite your curfew *I wonder what caused that unless maybe ? you upset the whole household by storming in, in the middle of the night? (some older people cannot get back to sleep when awakened like that)*, your brother getting preferential treatment *which is really irrelevant to YOUR life past the point of his eating your pizza and drinking your drinks*, your father wanting more for you than a part-time job *he's entitled to state his opinion in his home*...despite all these things they are...putting YOU through...how are YOUR PARENTS?????????????

Are they healthy?  Is their marriage intact?  Is your mother going through menopausal moodswings brought about by fluctuating hormones?  I know that as much as I adore my two, I had a premenopausal moodswing the other night and yelled at them for doing NOTHING unusual; it just hit a nerve and I acted inappropriately.  (I did apologize for yelling, though I told them what set me off and they apologized for playing the "we're so helpless you have to do it all for us" ploy...we're all crowded here and trying not to step all over each other's feelings and rights, and it IS hard sometimes to keep a level head or level playing field.)

Is your mother perhaps afraid your weight will "keep you from finding a man and moving out?"  Some women really believe that unless a woman has a great thin and fit body, no man will "have them."  Good fathers want their daughters to be able to fully take care of themselves so they don't have to "settle" with a man to survive or thrive financially.  If you're not uncomfortable with how much or what you eat, just smile at her commentary about it and say "I'm fine, thanks, Mom."

Please, take a few moments to stop focusing on YOU and how awful things are for YOU.

Picture yourself as a grown woman your mother's age, with a husband and two children (I don't remember if you said the brother was a minor or not) who are living at home with you during the years you perhaps had hoped to share mainly with the man in your life.  Add possible hormonal changes or financial pressures or an illness you may not wish to divulge to the children *of you or your husband* - and you have a LOT of stressors.  It appears on the surface that also, Mom may be terrified of "losing both her babies forever" once you DO move out, so she's making it difficult for you to do just that.

I didn't type this all out to upset you; but so much of what you've posted in this thread screams "it's ALL about ME and I'm NOT getting MY WAY in THEIR HOUSE when I PAY NO BILLS THERE and I have to do my OWN LAUNDRY." 

If you think you can't move right now, suck it up, smile at everything they say, and try to see things from their point of view.  The sooner you move out, the sooner you can do what you wish, when you wish, however you wish.

I wish you and your family well.




MistressT2you -> RE: Bullies (7/16/2007 2:03:13 PM)

My suggestion to you would be, do the chores, Before it's asked of you. If it's already done, they have nothing to bitch about.
Pay your own bills, if your part time job doesn't cover it, get another or extend your schooling goals if needed to get a full time job and go to classes at night. Pay your parents Reasonable rent, sign a contract ensuring Reasonable expectations from All of you. IE: Mom is not needed as an alarm clock. Hate to say it, but Money IS the Power in your situation, for gaining Some little Respect. You are over the legal age of taking control of your life. They Don't have to let you live there. They have been this way, all your life, so it's not like you don't know that they aren't going to change, so You must. Leave all childish behaviour behind you now, take responisibility for yourself. Also, by paying rent to them, you legally have a right to put a lock on your door. Be sure your contract states you are paying rent for the room, furnished as is. If this is not agreeable with your parents, and if your car and ins is all in your name, pack your clothes and what personal items of yours and leave them in your car. That way, if it comes down to it and they say leave, you're ready to go.
Many of what's been said here sounds harsh to you, yes, but for thought, on the flip side, I just had to kick out my oldest, after allowing her and her daughter to live here, rent free, bill free, free childcare, food, etc, except for a few times a yr she'd contribute, for 3 yrs, while she work'd full time, took online classes, quit jobs, took a trade school she disregarded as soon as she'd graduated, was allowed a lock on her door, ONLY sometimes cleaned up after herself or her daughter, cooked I think once a month, then left everything for another to clean..you see where this is going?> The final straw was her having no Respect for the house by inviting her b/f to stay over, yelling and arguing with all the rest in the house, slamming doors, and acting at 24 worse than her teenaged younger brother or her mentally handicapped sister. HAD she acted like an adult , within the reasonable expectations we ALL here adhere to, she'd still be here.

The next time your mother lashes out at you for something her aquaintance did, let her rant, then calmly give her a hug, tell her you are sorry she had such a shitty day, you'd love to stay and be her whipping child some more, but you have work, homework, etc..to do. Above all, be calm, courteous, as supportive as possible, while working your ass off to leave the nest so you can continue to grow. Adversity will kill you, or make you stronger. It's your choice which one.
Last piece, Life's a Bitch..learn to leash it or bite it back.




velvetears -> RE: Bullies (7/16/2007 4:13:09 PM)

It's been an interesting read.  Lot's of advice and ideas given to the OP.  Ultimately she will do what she feels most comfortable doing in the end.  i hear a lot of fear in her posts about leaving.  As much as it's hell to live there, it's the only life she's known so far.  When you grow up in a dysfunctional home it becomes normal to you, untill you grow up and realize other people live differently then you do.  Mother daughter relations are frought with so much tension and difficulty when daughters enter the teen years if you throw on top of that any kind of dysfunction or mental illness,  you have absolute misery. 

i think the op has valid feelings as far as thinking shes being treated unfairly - she is. What i see she needs to change is her attitude about it and reaction to it.  There is nothing she can do, say, be to make them change... at least not right now.  i wouldn't worry about the chores... just get them done, you'd have to do them anyway if you were on your own PLUS work a full time job. Trust me it gets harder when you throw in sore feet, tired bones, nagging hungry kids pulling at you every which way..... during those times you will whistfully think back on the easy years. Emotionally it might not be easy now, but if you can't leave just lay low, beat them to the punch and save save save!   Forget dorkboy brother - one day he will have to learn the hard way what it means to pay your way in life.  Till then it appears he has it great - he doesn't, they are not instilling any character in him by allowing him to do nothing to support himself, not even his own laundry.  He may not be going through the same amount of emotional stuff you are and he may think he's got it great but one day he will look back on this time in your lives and realize what an inconsiderate jerk he was, hopefully.  Worste case scenario for him will be finding a woman who will treat him just like mommy did until she wises up and divorces him after she's fed up enough with his "do for me" attitude.  He will loose so much valuable time learning the hard way what should be taught to him now. 

Your struggles and strife now will benefit you in ways you can't even fathom in future years.  Close your eyes and imagine actually being your brother... being treated like him, having things done for you, getting to watch your sister do everything... would you really honestly want or like that??  Maybe fun for a day or two but i think you realize, in the long run, it would become awfully boring and dull.  

In order to grow you have to let go.




Termyn8or -> RE: Bullies (7/16/2007 6:25:29 PM)

I'm baaaack.

I've got a little more perspective on this, having had time to think. I got a couple of buddies tell me all the time about inhumane or insane punishments they had to endure as a kid. At least in their eyes. Later they mention what they did to deserve such treatment and I said "Hell, I'd a kicked your ass too !" more than once. But that is not end of story.

There are many cases of Parents extending their authority  beyond the supposedly magical eighteen year mark. Most of them involve money. In fact once eighteen, their legal obligation is over, and they can require any performance they want for continued support. One very extreme case was in Texas. I will not comment on the morality of this isssue, it was their money and her choice.

A young Woman was forced to wear a chastity belt by her Parents throughout college. Her Mother chose the mastubation proof model by the way. The way it was, go ahead and cut it off, and you cut yourself off from the money tree. As far as I heard she complied. I read that whole thread, this was from a real person with some pretty decriptive entries. She even responded.

I think it was for real. I can't say for sure, but when someone says "It takes all kinds" don't you want to say "Yup, and we gotem". ?

Legal aspects of this were discussed ad nauseum, it boiled down to this, you want the money you wear the chastity belt. It was that simple.

Now from what I understand, she was living pretty well and had really burned up alot of money. They got her an apartment and credit cards, which she maxed out. She had been living beyond all her, errr, their means. Time came for the hammer to fall down. We don't know, the last few years of her education may have been financed by the family home, and if you EVER let your Parents do that for you you are scum. Not the fucking house, anything but, but not the house.

So perhaps knowing that she had a boyfriend they didn't want their investment rendered useless by an unwanted pregnancy, and maybe like me, they would not especially take to their grandkids being murdered, even in the womb.

How does it add up now ?

I can see a house curfew. I can see other restrictions, after all it is their house, but it goes too far. I think a nice fucking road trip for about a week for them to do their own chores would be a good idea too, and then some selective small rebellions after the big one to get rid of the curfew. Then you chop away from this one point at a time. Focus on one thing, think about how to get the idea across that you are not a doormat. Take it one issue at a time, and MORE importantly, choose that issue wisely.

Choose your battles carefully, you need the winnable ones, and there are very few there. But to find those and win them is important. By the time you do that you might be ready to move out.

Of course there is plan B. Plan B is to show up at like 2 AM and walk in, let them go off "You were supposed to be home by 10", you just say "It's ten oclock somewhere". That tells them you have decided not to take their shit anymore.Don't expect it to be pleasant.

And things only get worse. After that you may have to assert yourself with some roomies. The experience comes in handy.

Nobody can give you control over your life, you must take it.

T




LadyEllen -> RE: Bullies (7/17/2007 2:08:44 AM)

Hi SN

You said two very interesting things (to my mind, anyway). First that your current job is part time - with, I'm assuming a part time wage? A full time job pays a full time wage (in theory). I think I recall that youre studying too? Trade your course for one which will fit around your new full time job. And study something useful - honestly, it doesnt matter even if you end up doing the job of your dreams on the course youre on now, you'll be sick of it within a decade, trust me - so might as well be doing something lucrative.

Second you said you have a nice car. Is it yours? How much is it worth and can you do without it for a while? If so, sell it and use the money to move somewhere closer to the places you need to be, so you wont need transport quite so much. If its a really nice car and worth a bit more than you need, trade down to something cheaper and use the excess value of the car to move.

E





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