Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Bartering business for service


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress >> RE: Bartering business for service Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Bartering business for service - 7/18/2007 5:59:55 PM   
HCWT1


Posts: 161
Joined: 7/7/2005
Status: offline 		Iv'e spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours making furniture for,buying toys ect for Ms that iv'e known or served.For mine its not about money,but gaining the apreciation and respect,even love of ones i admire and want to partner or serve.Yes sometimes it can be a hartless experience.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Bartering business for service - 7/18/2007 6:03:38 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nikkicd10

It has been both, people have seen my ads and asked for free furniture and some I have offered to build in exchange of services.

Though when I offer an exchange I am offered the least in exchanged value, (that being what they charge per hour verses the cost of the




Then don't trade with those people.

Becoming a master carpenter is a long process involving training, aprpenticeships, journeyman status and then finally master status -- my grandfather was one and so is one of my nephews so I know a bit about it. My father is damned good making things of this nature but can claim no status because he didn't go through what is basically a guild process.

Your work is high caliber if you have earned that rank. You should never except less than what your work is worth.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to nikkicd10)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Bartering business for service - 7/18/2007 6:18:51 PM   
PairOfDimes


Posts: 324
Joined: 7/20/2006
Status: offline 		What's fair? Fairness is relative here--it's a matter of market value. It's whatever the buyer is willing to pay and you're willing to accept. If I want you to build a deck in my backyard, and in exchange I offer two hours of playtime, and you say no, you want five hours, since it's an awfully nice deck and you're awfully skilled, and I say okay, three hours, because, you know, I'm pretty skilled too, and you agree to that, then that's fair. Negotiation is intrinsic to barter, I think, even more so than in cash transactions.

It's also worth mentioning that the above opinion applies regardless of whether BDSM and sex are involved. BDSM and sex just tend to command higher prices than many more innocuous services (like cooking, or massage) because of a certain rarity, or intimacy--I'm not sure which.

(in reply to nikkicd10)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Bartering business for service - 7/19/2007 8:07:11 AM   
MistressDolly


Posts: 917
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

No offense taken..... i`m used to getting told off.....


lol, awwww sub53 ... that's only because you ran into them on one of their sleep deprived days...

:p

_____________________________

m i s t r e s s d o l l y . c o m

m y s p a c e


(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Bartering business for service - 7/19/2007 9:18:00 AM   
MsKatHouston


Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline 		What you will accept is up to you.  However, if you are offering your wares and trying to get an "equal" exchange, I bet not a lot of Mistresses would go for that.  I have a submissive friend who does this type of work.  We are not in a relationship per se but do play on occasion.  I would pay for materials if I wanted a custom whatever but not for his time.  I would imagine if I was a pro domme I would work similarly.  If materials were $300 and I charged $300.00 per hour, he'd get a one hour session.  Someone approaching me with a barter situation for my time (as a non pro) had better have a few things going for them.  First, I must like them to begin with and would ordinarily play with them without any such barter.  Also, it had better be in my benefit to where I am getting something I want/need/like for time I am spending without it feeling like a complete burden to me.

Really, though, it is up to you.  If you don't like the terms, you don't have to build it.  You don't have to play.  Perhaps if you can not get a good solution, you simply pay for your session at the going rate and the Mistress pays your going rate for your wares if she wants them. 



_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Bartering business for service - 7/20/2007 5:27:14 AM   
MordSithLover


Posts: 48
Joined: 2/20/2007
From: Your deepest darkest fantasy
Status: offline 		I guess you would have to speak to each individual and find out what their personal pov is on it. Some subs that approach Me and want to apply think I should simply serve their demands (erm, yeah, I know what is with that) and provide a Mistress charity when it actually is quite tiring sometimes and the ones who want Me for nothing are the ones that are the most work simply becuase they do not understand that if I provide something for them then it is only polite to at least offer something in return (apart from their flesh, which I mean, is NOT a fair exchange in My book lol). However a true submissive then bought Me a domain simply becuase we were discussing it. So yeah I would say depends on the person. Some are jerks. Some are nice. like in everything x JMO dont shoot me lol

_____________________________

Mord-Sith are chosen at a young age. Only the most gentle and caring girls are chosen, as it is believed the most innocent and loving are capable of the most torture and cruelty.

(in reply to MsKatHouston)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Bartering business for service - 7/20/2007 8:04:09 AM   
WyckedMystress


Posts: 118
Joined: 6/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

i wasnt in the wrong place. Its a public forum. There is no ask a male submissive section, more is the pity. You should see how pissy they got when i replied in the Gorean section...lol


Im going to follow you around now politesub and see how many you can piss off   hehehe

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Bartering business for service - 7/20/2007 10:40:24 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WyckedMystress

quote:

i wasnt in the wrong place. Its a public forum. There is no ask a male submissive section, more is the pity. You should see how pissy they got when i replied in the Gorean section...lol


Im going to follow you around now politesub and see how many you can piss off   hehehe


Guess who`s next Ma`am......... Smirks a tad !

(in reply to WyckedMystress)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Bartering business for service - 7/20/2007 12:32:01 PM   
ElanSubdued


Posts: 1511
Status: offline
quote:

HCWT1:  I've spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours making furniture for, buying toys etc. for Ms that I've known or served.  For mine, its not about money, but gaining the appreciation and respect, even love, of ones I admire and want to partner or serve.  Yes sometimes it can be a heartless experience.


I'll underline HCWT1's last statement :  "it can be a heartless experience".  Yes, it sure can.

I refuse to buy affection.  Affection is either given freely of the giver's desire or otherwise I don't want it.  Likewise, the whole barter thing is kind of beyond me.  My time is worth money.  My skills are worth money.  The tools, materials, and things I do are worth money.  None of these are worth any less than the corresponding efforts of a mistress, but this isn't my point.  My point is that I give these things to my partner both to show affection and because I want to.  Any mistress who is my partner gives of herself (to me) for the same reason.  Money, bartering, tributes, and "negotiating a favorable position" aren't concerns as these are business transactions, not the stuff that partners who love and support one another tend to think about.

So... lets talk about business for a minute.  In my opinion, there is a huge incongruence between the attitudes of submissives and mistresses who ask for money, gifts, and other forms of tribute.  What we have here are business transactions.  A lot of mistresses seem to think that submissive's are lucky to tribute or that bartering is a way to get sweeter deals for themselves.  In business, as far as I'm concerned, the fact that I'm submissive is irrelevant.  What is relevant is that when I pay for something (be this with money, my time, or my services), I'm going to make sure the value exchanged is at least 50/50 and preferably tilted more for my benefit.  This is just good business sense.  I'll shop around for the most appropriate deal that fits my needs and make a purchase.  Once I've made a purchase, I expect to get what I paid for.  It's that simple.  When paying a mistress to top me, I don't consider her dominant in the situation any more.  This is because I'm ultimately leading the scene.  I'm the customer and I've specified what I want.  If the dominant doesn't meet my needs, I won't hire her again.  As before, this is just good business sense.

Personally, I like to keep my business dealings and BDSM relationships separate.  I don't want relationship partners to become business associates because this takes away any desire I have to do things purely for the sake of giving affection.  This is why I don't hire professional mistresses and why I never understand the debates that go on about tributes and bartering.  It seems rather straightforward that if you treat partners as a business they will treat you as a business.  No business person I know is concerned about negotiating their supplier a better deal.  It's a dog eat dog world out there when you get into this domain.  Thus, call me a romantic fool or not, but by removing business from my BDSM relationships, the issues of money, bartering, and tribute disappear entirely.  I kind of like it this way.  It makes the playing field one of human values and genuine affection, and it also helps to avoid the "heartless experiences" that HCWT1 alludes to.

ElanSubdued.

(in reply to HCWT1)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Bartering business for service - 7/20/2007 12:44:57 PM   
nikkicd10


Posts: 91
Joined: 8/23/2006
Status: offline 		I think you nailed it on the head with your input.  There is a huge difference between a lifestyle Mistress and a Pro Domme in this sense.

When I have the pleasure of serving lifestyle Mistresses, some of which I have met off this site this problem does not exist.  I give because I want to, no reason to ask.

My interactions with some Pro Dommes has been one of shall we say perhaps they have placed to high a value with one being granted the honor of even emailing them.

There are other Pro Dommes who I have donated paddles to thier events, to shows, parties and even worked on their homes for free.  Not in exchange for services, but simply because they asked as an equal for some help, not demanding it because of their chosen profession.

(in reply to ElanSubdued)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Bartering business for service - 7/20/2007 1:23:41 PM   
ElanSubdued


Posts: 1511
Status: offline 		nikkicd10,

Thanks for your reply above. :-)  I'll get more on topic here and address the question in the OP.  Your question was:

quote:

nikkicd10:  In your mind (a Mistress) what is a fair exchange rate for bartering professional work for service time?


Granted, I'm not a mistress, but I'll try to give some perspective.  Before I continue, I want to repeat an important part of your OP as follows:

quote:

nikkicd10:  I am a Master Carpenter with over 20 years in building furniture and homes.  When I offer my services to Mistresses, they feel my skills as worthless, though they do need them (ed:  they think) I should offer them in their honor.


So here's my take on your question.

You are a trained professional with many years of experience.  Thus, I see no reason why you should discount your services.  If mistresses don't want to pay (or barter) fairly, then don't sell to them.  Unless you want to practice building a specific piece of BDSM furniture, I'd say you should charge a fair market rate and barter accordingly.  You might do better selling your wares at local events, shops, and play parties.  If you're determined to barter directly with mistresses and they won't give you what you want, I'd say get out of this business.  Surely you can spend your time building homes and/or more traditional pieces of furniture, and these can be sold to buyers willing to pay a reasonable price.

quote:

MsKatHouston:  I have a submissive friend who does this type of work.  We are not in a relationship per se but do play on occasion.  I would pay for materials if I wanted a custom whatever but not for his time.  I would imagine if I was a pro domme I would work similarly.  If materials were $300 and I charged $300.00 per hour, he'd get a one hour session.


If I were a builder like you nikkicd10, I'd want to be paid for my time.  Sure, if the customer was a friend, I might give a discount, but I would not work for free.  And as for covering the costs of time and materials, if I wasn't getting cash money, I'd want the session time exchanged to be far in excess of what I could purchase at regular rates.  I mean, if you're paying the normal rate, why barter?  There is no way I'd spend hours building furniture only to get a few hours of play time in return.  This just isn't a good business deal.  Now if a good friend asked me to build something for her and I just wanted to do this in friendship, yes, I'd only expect her to pay for the materials.  But I'll add this too:  I would not expect anything in return.  I'd just be doing a favor for a friend.

quote:

MsKatHouston:  Really, though, it is up to you.  If you don't like the terms, you don't have to build it.  You don't have to play.  Perhaps if you can not get a good solution, you simply pay for your session at the going rate and the Mistress pays your going rate for your wares if she wants them.


I think Ms. Kat is right on the money here.  If you don't like the terms, don't take the offer.  It seems far simpler (and more sensible) just to sell your BDSM furniture to those willing to pay a fair price.  Likewise, if you want to hire the services of a professional mistress, do this separately.  If you keep your business and play separate, you can seemingly make better decisions about each.  As a business person, I always avoid customers who are looking for a free ride.  In fact, I want the opposite.  I want people who recognize and value my skills, and who are willing to pay and/or barter accordingly.

Please keep in mind that while I'm a submissive, I'd give you this same advice if I were a mistress.  When it comes to making business desicions, I think it's a good idea to leave your BDSM disposition out of the equation.

quote:

nikkicd10:  My interactions with some Pro Dommes has been one of shall we say perhaps they have placed to high a value with one being granted the honor of even emailing them.


I don't think I've met a submissive who has not experienced this.  And of course, pro dommes have reciprocal stories of subs who waste their time.  I think the answer here is obvious.  If someone is offering something you don't want, just ignore them.

quote:

nikkicd10:  There are other Pro Dommes who I have donated paddles to their events, to shows, parties and even worked on their homes for free.  Not in exchange for services, but simply because they asked as an equal for some help, not demanding it because of their chosen profession.


I give you a big thumbs up here.  Volunteering your time and helping out neighbors and fellow kinksters is a nice thing to do.

ElanSubdued.

< Message edited by ElanSubdued -- 7/20/2007 1:51:54 PM >

(in reply to nikkicd10)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Bartering business for service - 7/20/2007 2:30:09 PM   
goddessAVA


Posts: 221
Joined: 11/2/2006
Status: offline 		based on your last response, it seems that you have revealed a motivation for this post other then getting honest feedback on the idea of bartering-voicing your disdain for certain pro-Dommes.  You start by stating that you approach AND are approached by pros for this type of arrangement.  Then you state they are approaching you, then you want nothing to do with them anyway because their attitude is to haughty.  I guess I am the only one who sees this everchanging stance-in your op you asked for opinions of said Dommes and when you got an answer you did not like, you changed your story.  I have never met an independent pro Domme who was not lifestyle-I am sure they exist but being pro does not exclude one from doing this for enjoyment.  This is a tired fight but I am not going to stop voicing my opinion.

_____________________________

Philadelphia's premier Enema Nurse
cleaning out America's assholes one at a time

(in reply to ElanSubdued)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Bartering business for service - 7/20/2007 2:33:46 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		One or two points here. Firstly some Pro Dommes are also Lifestylers. I said in another thread that many Pro Dommes, while fulfilling a fantasy for a client wont let the client dictate the scene. i know some will but just as many wont.
The reason i think batering may be a good idea came about in this way. i had asked what could a submissive do, if he wanted to visit a dungeon, yet found that the living costs made such visits far and few between. This isnt in anyway the same as paying for affection, it`s simply another way of paying for a service, and in many Countries trading in this manner is more common than a cash transaction. I`m not talking about a one sided transaction but something along the lines of that posted by MsKatHouston.
One thing to remember as well is that the hourly rate for a Pro Domme far excedes that of a tradesman. So if a Mistress earns £100 in an hour and i earn £50, then i would consider 2 hours of my time for one of Hers a fair deal.


(in reply to ElanSubdued)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Bartering business for service - 7/20/2007 2:47:32 PM   
goddessAVA


Posts: 221
Joined: 11/2/2006
Status: offline 		so you hire pros and do not feel dominated but do not play with pros because they are not lifestyle and you do not mix business with pleasure but have experience mixing business with pleasure and it is 50/50 except when it is a pro domina, then you are in charge.
hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Which top name pro Dommes have you played with?

Pro-Domination is more complex then you state, if you are just kinky many escorts offer spanking services strap-on play ect......there is no need to see a pro Domme.  When playing with someone it IS important that your desires match, pro or not.  I know Dommes who have told the client to go, just as I know clients who walk out before the session is over.  I just turned someone down today who wanted an all corporal spanking session for a discount no less, unless I can beat you till you bleed, that is BORING.  Both of our safety is on the line, and if you are in inescable bondage, you better hope you can trust the person you are playing with.  This is why it is not a simple business transaction, the top name pro Dommes, in Phila we have some of the BEST, can screen heavily, turn down anyone who is not interesting to them, and maintain a steady base of play partners whose D/s relationship change and grows as the play does.  They are highly experienced and will not do anything horribly dangerous.  ANY Mistress worth a salt will push your limits and make you bend to her will, but she will not use dirty faulty toys, let your limbs go numb, put you in unsafe suspension and she will thoroughly enjoy what is happenning, making your time together always memorable, hell there are sub/clients who claim they will take a bullet for certain Dommes(Ms. Renee) so close are the ties-this is NOT 50/50.

_____________________________

Philadelphia's premier Enema Nurse
cleaning out America's assholes one at a time

(in reply to ElanSubdued)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Bartering business for service - 7/20/2007 3:44:34 PM   
chislave4you


Posts: 13
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		Wow...

Well it seems those who have a problem with other people having value can't see past their own PR.

Well, for the first time I happen to know the person who posted the question, you can't find a person more willing to offer their talents to those actually need it. 

But enough about them, one does not have to look far to find people willing to steal/rip off someone offering help, or a fair trade of skills. 

For most people, we would never think of this, but a simple search of this site and 1 can find those demanding whatever because they breathe, you're dumb enough to respond you deserve what you get.

I'm thinking of adding a new signiture to my profile

I HAVE A COCK THAT FILLS EMPTY HOLES, FOLLOW MY RULES
 
 

(in reply to goddessAVA)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Bartering business for service - 7/20/2007 4:07:38 PM   
nikkicd10


Posts: 91
Joined: 8/23/2006
Status: offline 		Wow, ahhh ok, I was not looking for that kind of support, can someone pass thechips please

(in reply to chislave4you)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Bartering business for service - 7/20/2007 4:13:44 PM   
ElanSubdued


Posts: 1511
Status: offline
quote:

nikkicd10:  Wow, ahhh ok, I was not looking for that kind of support, can someone pass the chips please?


*passes nikkicd10 some chips*

Would you like something to drink with that?

ElanSubdued.

(in reply to nikkicd10)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Bartering business for service - 7/20/2007 4:18:18 PM   
ElanSubdued


Posts: 1511
Status: offline 		Ava,

quote:

so you hire pros and do not feel dominated but do not play with pros because they are not lifestyle and you do not mix business with pleasure but have experience mixing business with pleasure and it is 50/50 except when it is a pro domina, then you are in charge.


Whoa.  You read a lot into my words.  The short of it is that when money, tributes, and bartering are involved, I consider this a business transaction and as such, I'm going to negotiate something that is as close to a 50/50 arrangement as possible (or, as I stated previously, an arrangement that is in my favor).  This means that I'm getting fair market value for my money or that I'm giving fair market value in exchange for money being paid to me.

I do not hire professional dominas and I apologize if my post was inadvertently misleading in this regard.  None-the-less, I've considered this a few times and have negotiated with a few.  For me, something gets lost (in terms of romance and intimacy) when I have to get my pocketbook out.  That's the whole point.  I'm not looking for someone just to fulfill my kinks.  Rather, I'm looking for a romantic life partner.

I find it odd how you say the relationship between professional dominas and their clients isn't 50/50.  I suppose this is all how you look at things.  While I'm sure the domina has great experience and brings great skills to the table, she should because that's what she is getting paid for.  If I'm paying for service at rates equivalent to a high priced lawyer, I'm not going to hire an amateur.  Like I said, I want what I paid for.  This seems pretty much 50/50 to me.  And sure, as you alluded, sometimes a domina must turn down a client because her skills/desires and the client's needs are not well matched.  This is no different than any other business.  I do the same thing in my own business.  Sometimes people want to hire me, but I just don't feel that I'm the appropriate person for the job.

People pay me top dollar in my own profession because I know what I'm doing.  This doesn't somehow make me uber special and it doesn't change the fact that clients pay me and I render services.  And yes, my service changes as my clients grow with me as their needs change.  Still, it's a 50/50 deal.  The client pays me and I provide service.  When either of us stops fulfilling our business responsibilities, the relationship is over.  I'd expect this isn't much different with a professional domina and her clients.

One other thing I don't understand is why professional dominas get so riled up when people treat them as professionals.  On the one hand, they don't want to be considered (dare I say it) as prostitutes, but on the other hand they don't want to be seen as (somewhat homogeneous) professionals in a competitive market.  When a client buys services, that seems like a professional relationship to me.  I don't see any dominance and submission going on here at all.  Now sure, as a scene is going on, the illusion of dominance and submission may be very real to the domina and her client.  I can also see how clients might get addicted (or fall in love) and feel a strong sense of submission and loyalty to their professional dominas.  Still, the relationship is a professional one based on the exchange of money and this, to me, equates to something very different than the power exchange that occurs in long-term, non-professional BDSM relationships.

ElanSubdued.

(in reply to goddessAVA)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Bartering business for service - 7/20/2007 4:37:51 PM   
nikkicd10


Posts: 91
Joined: 8/23/2006
Status: offline 		Yea, looks like I'll need it, an ice cold Lablatt's Green/ale would be great

(in reply to ElanSubdued)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Bartering business for service - 7/20/2007 9:36:32 PM   
goddessAVA


Posts: 221
Joined: 11/2/2006
Status: offline 		oh aren't you witty-what pr having to do with me are you familiar with?  well none I'd guess.
as for the idea of ripping one off-are you not ass-u-mi-ng an awful lot?  I KNOW I do not approach people about getting toys in exchange for services, and as I stated most established pro's would not bother.  CM is not a site where most pros get business-dickie virgin. max fisch, domina ms., eros are sites real pros use, not that this excludes cm, it just tends to attract more fun partners.  I have actually been approached by furniture makers who wanted to barter and I told them no!  I would rather get an existing subbie to buy said furniture if I wanted it then some asshole stranger I never met.  This is not the way to ever approach a pro and since this was addressed to pros in part specifically, I choose to answer.  I am not going away nor am I interested in your pathetic male parts filling an empty hole.
out
peace

< Message edited by goddessAVA -- 7/20/2007 10:22:51 PM >

_____________________________

Philadelphia's premier Enema Nurse
cleaning out America's assholes one at a time

(in reply to chislave4you)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress >> RE: Bartering business for service Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109