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Respect? - 7/19/2007 4:20:49 PM

SirDraco7

Posts: 108
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline

Ok I'm branching off from an earlier post of mine here, because it led me to an interesting question.

Yes Submission is and should be earned. I agree with that. I do not think a submissive should submit, listen to nor obey anyone unless and untill they desire to.

Trust as well. To paraphrase Warf from star Trek(if anyone knows the exact quote let me know I can't remember if this is it or not for sure lol) "Trust is something that must be earned, not given away" Fair enough. Well agreed and established.

Now the question. What about respect?
Is it instant? Must it be earned as well?

And yes. I understand and agree that there are levels of respect. To look someone in the eyes and listen when they speak is one. To call someone Sir or Ma'am(a friend or stranger not your Master or Mistress.) is a greater for of respect.(in my opinion anyways.)

What I'm asking is just respect in general. The basic form of it. Do you assume that everyone is a decent person, and a Decent Dom untill they do or say something otherwise?
Or do you assume everyone is scum untill they rise out of the ashes so to speak?
Does someone giving you respect earn them respect in return?

And as a side opinion type question. What kind of things earn respect in your eyes? What kind of things lose respect?

Just another, hopefully, thought provoking post of mine....

Sir Draco.

Post #: 1

RE: Respect? - 7/19/2007 4:24:35 PM

mstrjx

Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

Here. Let me make the thread go sideways for a while.

Dom(me)s need to earn their respect.

Subs/slaves should be respected by default.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to SirDraco7)

Post #: 2

RE: Respect? - 7/19/2007 4:26:55 PM

GhitaAmati

Posts: 3263
Joined: 5/30/2007
Status: offline

I am poilte to everyone....but polite to be does not equate respect. I personally assume everyone is a rather decent person until they prove me wrong. That doesnt mean they have earned my respect though. I was raised you call everyone Sir or Maam until they correct you and say, no call me by my first name. As long as someone is being polite to me, I will be polite back. I see alot of people try to use polite and respect with the same definition. Respect can only be earned over time, by proving your worth to a person. Do I respect everyone when I first meet them, online or off? Nope. Thats doesnt mean I think they are scum, I assume they are a perfectly respectable type person, they just havent earned my personal respect yet.

_____________________________

I said I was a submissive, I never said I was a GOOD submissive.

Sex without love is a meaningless experience, but as far as meaningless experiences go its pretty damn good.
~Woody Allen

(in reply to SirDraco7)

Post #: 3

RE: Respect? - 7/19/2007 4:36:13 PM

SirDraco7

Posts: 108
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline

Interesting points and questions...
But why couldn't everyone be respected by default?
Or in another sense the Doms have it by default and the subs need to earn it?
I'm curious why you think that way mstrjx. I'm not saying it's wrong. Just looking to hear your thoughts about it is all.

And to GhitaAmati... Isn't being polite in and of itself a subtle form of respect? :)

(in reply to GhitaAmati)

Post #: 4

RE: Respect? - 7/19/2007 4:42:11 PM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mstrjx

Dom(me)s need to earn their respect.

Subs/slaves should be respected by default.

Jeff

This seems to imply that Dominants and Masters are inherently bad and subs and slave are inherently good. I know some subs and slave who have very distubing and awful personalities...and objectives that are NOT positive.

In answer to the OP: I feel that humans, no matter who or what they are, deserve a certain amount of initial respect; everyone gets the same amount, say, a half a glass. So, I feel that Dominants and Masters should be give that certain amount of respect just like subs and slaves. After that, when trust is proven, respect may be raised by adding to the glass. It doesn't have to be, though. I can trust someone to consistantly behave poorly and thus remove from the glass.

To me, this is related to the question about titles. My and my household's view: it is nothing on us to refer to someone with the title they choose; they are just words. We will do this unless we have some moral or spiritual reason not to. For us, it is then up to the individual being addresses to live up to their title. But, AFTER observing their behavior, we can choose to STOP using the title. This has happened rarely; I can only thing of one individual off the top of my head who I will no longer call slave.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to mstrjx)

Post #: 5

RE: Respect? - 7/19/2007 4:42:30 PM

ready4srvce4all

Posts: 767
Joined: 3/9/2007
Status: offline

No one has respect by default. Saying a Dom has respect by default is like saying the president has it by default. Respect is earned.

_____________________________

(in reply to SirDraco7)

Post #: 6

RE: Respect? - 7/19/2007 4:54:32 PM

SubinMaine

Posts: 1888
Joined: 1/7/2006
Status: offline

i will always firmly stand by respect being earned and not "instant"...the only time "instant"and respect are even related is when someone tells me i "owe" them respect and any i may have had for them is instantly *poof* gone *smile*

_____________________________

That which yields is not always weak...

(in reply to ready4srvce4all)

Post #: 7

RE: Respect? - 7/19/2007 5:13:11 PM

witchywoman313

Posts: 48
Joined: 7/4/2005
Status: offline

I think theres three questions here one how much respect is assumed from the start, and what is the polite way to address Masters/Mistreses and Doms other then your own. The third has to do with trust and how that is earned.

I start out by unconsiously granting everyone I meet a certain amount of respect Id like to say everyone gets the same amount of respect but I know thats not true, first impressions do matter and I may give less respect to a shabbily dressed man on the side of the road with a (needs money for cigaretts) sign then I would someone well groomed with clean clothes that I run into while in the bookstore. I make instant assumptions not nessasarily correct but as my husbands family is fond of saying Perseption, Perseption, Perseption. To put this into a BDSM context Id give more respect to the "Master" who I'm introduced to as the one who runs the local dungeon then to the "Master" who comes into an online chatroom and instantly says "Slaves wanting punishment IM me now"

When I'm in public and I'm addressing a Master or Mistress I will ocasionaly give them that tittle but only if its someone who has earned it in the more General way of hosting functions, running Demos, organizing munches Ect. or if they are a well respected person in the RL BDSM comunity, or if they are an expirenced Master or Mistress that I plan on playing with or have played with. Otherwise I'm likely to fall back on useing a first name or a scene name, and beeing polite in a more general way. By the way its only a matter of Semantics but My Master is Master. Other Masters and Mistresses are Master (Name) or Mistress (Name) such as Master Miles, Mistress Juliet, and Doctor Irv. These people have earned the respect in my eyes to use their Honorifics when I talk to them and about them. Most Masters/Mistresses and Doms in my experience do not Insist that subs and slaves use there tittles outside of play or ownership. Beeing generaly polite however is expected, I find that people in the RL BDSM comunities are extreamly polite in general, saying please and thank you and excuse me when its appropriate, I also find them to be more open about other peoples lifestlyes and kinks.

I do assume for the most part that people are trustworthy, but I have to have something more substantial to base that trust on before I risk myself on an assumption. The same for the most part is true with respect give tentativly it till its lost or validated is my aproach.

I'll likely get a lot of bashing on my behaviour tward other Masters and Mistresses not beeing "proper" protocol but its what Ive settled on and My Master approves for me. BTW My Masters name is Thomas and hed never ask anyone else but me to call him "Master" even though the tittle is well earned.

Hugs and best wishes
Witchywoman313

(in reply to SirDraco7)

Post #: 8

RE: Respect? - 7/19/2007 5:24:12 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDraco7

Now the question. What about respect?
Is it instant?

Nope

quote:

Must it be earned as well?

I will respect a person as much as I would respect any other human being until they prove they deserve more or less. No additional respect is give for capital letters or slapping the title "master" in front of a name.

quote:

Do you assume that everyone is a decent person, and a Decent Dom untill they do or say something otherwise?

Normally.

quote:

Or do you assume everyone is scum untill they rise out of the ashes so to speak?

Only if they have something about them that leads me to suspect, based on past experience, that they aren't worth respect. Like a person on AOL with a SN about their penis size probably isn't looking for non-sex related RP.

quote:

Does someone giving you respect earn them respect in return?

No. Someone could respect me but still be not worth respect.

quote:

And as a side opinion type question. What kind of things earn respect in your eyes?

Willing to learn, willing to accept others, willing to stand up for your beliefs, willing to apologize when you fucked up, willing to change and grow, willing toaccept responsiblity for things...

quote:

What kind of things lose respect?

Whining, thinking you are entitled to respect, refusing to admit you are wrong when presented with evidence, trolling for wank fodder, sending out spam e-mails...

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to SirDraco7)

Post #: 9

RE: Respect? - 7/19/2007 5:42:01 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

People often confuse respect for courtesy. I look people in the eye because I am civilized, I address dominants rather than their submissives again because of courtesy. Same goes for things like holding doors, even asking if someone wants a drink while I am up.

Respect is earned. To me respect is standing up to offer someone a seat for reasons other than ones bound by courtesy. Calling someone sir or even in rare cases master is a sign of respect and is again earned.

Ways one earns respect is by having your deeds match your actions, by being humble, offering courtesy, and by treating others well and with respect.

(in reply to witchywoman313)

Post #: 10

RE: Respect? - 7/19/2007 6:47:41 PM

PrincessEllie

Posts: 287
Joined: 11/30/2006
Status: offline

I feel that a sub's respect for a Dom is earned by the Dom's respect for the sub.
Just to Zen it up a little.

_____________________________

Sticks and stones
May break my bones
But whips and chains excite me
So tie me up
Or hold me down
And bite me baby, bite me!

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--Discreet BDSM day clothes--

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 11

RE: Respect? - 7/19/2007 6:48:40 PM

slaveish

Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline

I give respect when it is earned and act with relative courtesy until it is un-earned.

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 12

RE: Respect? - 7/19/2007 6:57:20 PM

NefertariReborn

Posts: 381
Status: offline

I give everyone a full cup of respect and leave it up to them to tip out the contents with unbecoming behaviour. I grew up with the mandatory Sir and Ma'am for any elder and appropriate titles for those who were younger and even others for those who were My contemporaries. I think that's why I don't have a problem with someone calling themselves Sir X. I find no need to prove he's a Sir. His actions will speak for themselves. (Same goes for the FemDoms.) And while he may eventually not be My idea of "Dominant" to some right subbie he's gods gift to submissivekind.

(in reply to slaveish)

Post #: 13

RE: Respect? - 7/19/2007 7:49:45 PM

TemptingNviceSub

Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDraco7

Ok I'm branching off from an earlier post of mine here, because it led me to an interesting question.

Yes Submission is and should be earned. I agree with that. I do not think a submissive should submit, listen to nor obey anyone unless and untill they desire to.

Trust as well. To paraphrase Warf from star Trek(if anyone knows the exact quote let me know I can't remember if this is it or not for sure lol) "Trust is something that must be earned, not given away" Fair enough. Well agreed and established.

Now the question. What about respect?
Is it instant? Must it be earned as well?

And yes. I understand and agree that there are levels of respect. To look someone in the eyes and listen when they speak is one. To call someone Sir or Ma'am(a friend or stranger not your Master or Mistress.) is a greater for of respect.(in my opinion anyways.)

What I'm asking is just respect in general. The basic form of it. Do you assume that everyone is a decent person, and a Decent Dom untill they do or say something otherwise?
Or do you assume everyone is scum untill they rise out of the ashes so to speak?
Does someone giving you respect earn them respect in return?

And as a side opinion type question. What kind of things earn respect in your eyes? What kind of things lose respect?

Just another, hopefully, thought provoking post of mine....

Sir Draco.

Respect to me is instant, until given reason for it to be rescinded.
I do think every person is decent, Dominant or sub..until again ..proven wrong.
Giving me respect or even giving anyone respect may engender a reciprocal response.As far as what earns my respect?..that your actions speak as loudly and honestly as your words. That I find your intentions to be of a postive nature and not of a negative nature.What things lose my respect?..Dishonesty, playing the blame game,not keeping to your word........Tempting

_____________________________

I have greatly enjoyed the second blooming...suddenly you find at the age of 50, that a whole new life has opened before you.........Agatha Christie.

You must make tracks into the unknown~~Thoreau

(in reply to SirDraco7)

Post #: 14

RE: Respect? - 7/19/2007 8:07:02 PM

earthycouple

Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ready4srvce4all

No one has respect by default. Saying a Dom has respect by default is like saying the president has it by default. Respect is earned.

I stand by the answer my slave gave as above

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to ready4srvce4all)

Post #: 15

RE: Respect? - 7/19/2007 8:17:29 PM

angelic

Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline

For me it is entirely situational. In r/l, i try to be respectful of others. i do not think that necessarily means i respect them, i am just not rude to them. i will not say that my respect is earned, because i do not view it as 'earning' anything from me. It is easier in r/l to give my respect. However, i normally reciprocate in kind. If someone is a jerk to me, you can pretty much guarantee i will lower myself to their standard and be a jerk right back. That rarely happens, however.

O/l is a different animal altogether. Respect is not something i give easily or freely and if, for example, i have exchanged just one or two e-mails with someone, i neither respect or really feel anything for the other person. That is not to say that respect will not come with a bit more time, but i am much more stingy with it.

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

(in reply to SirDraco7)

Post #: 16

RE: Respect? - 7/19/2007 9:42:15 PM

EmpassionedRogue

Posts: 27
Joined: 6/13/2007
Status: offline

i start out and give everyone the same ammount of respect... altho it may not appear that way as i can show it differantly to differant people. from there they either earn more through really any number of ways that is to numerous to mention, or loose it. i do strive to give poeple the benifit of any doubt in things so that, they dont loose it. i do try to view all people as intruisticly decent (or better) until being prooven otherwise

_____________________________

- a man can derive no greater pleasure himself, then that of bringing pleasure to a great woman. in any capacity -

(in reply to angelic)

Post #: 17

RE: Respect? - 7/19/2007 9:49:18 PM

Estring

Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

The only thing I remember Worf saying was "permission to use torpedoes sir?"
I don't automatically give people respect, or assume they are scumbags. I treat people with respect because that is how I conduct myself. How they treat me back is what I base my respect on.

_____________________________

Boycott Whales!

(in reply to SirDraco7)

Post #: 18

RE: Respect? - 7/19/2007 11:05:30 PM

slaveofKaos

Posts: 143
Joined: 2/16/2007
From: California
Status: offline

I give respect to everyone until they give me a reason not to respect them.

_____________________________

slave jodi

(in reply to Estring)

Post #: 19

RE: Respect? - 7/20/2007 1:48:57 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

I am not a great follower of the 'respect is earned' set. Erning something means you have done something to gain. Most people who have my respect have done so without wanting respect, they just 'do'. You do not have to know nor either like someone to respect a person. Like Martin Luther King or Maya Angelou or the Tibetan Monks etc.
Respect is something that comes over time and sometimes that time can be in an instant - you can suddenly think 'oh, I have no understanding of why that person could do that, but I do respect them for doing it'. Decency has nothing to do with respect. And respect has nothing to do with being polite. I do not try to 'earn' respect - you respect me or you don't. Personal choice. I do not 'give' respect, it will just exist as it happens.

Peace
the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to SirDraco7)

Post #: 20

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