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ORIGINAL: Caius

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ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

New World slavery was based on two things almost unheard of in other and earlier types of slavery.

The first was it's overwhelming economic basis. In most of the world and throughout most of history slave owning itself was a status symbol, a sign of wealth or civic right. Any economic gain was secondary for most slave owners though there were "industries" and farms where slaves were fundamental. Often that was consider a bit vulgar at least in the eyes of those who left behind evidence.

The second difference is who is enslaved. New World slavery became focused on issues of race while most slavery in the rest of the world is not about what you look like or where you are from but simply a matter of law, social relationships, or birth. This racial component was emphasized in much of the law and in the writings of slave owners -- not the case at all for most of the world.

This is somewhat anachronistic. While I agree that it is the economic component that can be said to, more than anyhting else, establish how slaves are regarded and treated, it is absolutely untrue that such conditions failed to prevail for cultures prior to "New World" colonization. Look above and you will see a small list of cultures that employed slaves in exactly the type of industries you descibe -- a marginal list indeed compared to all of the powers in history who have made liberal use of slaves in their economies (primarily in exactly the kind of agricultural function that American plantations used them in). Likewise, while you are correct that the systems used by European colonial powers in the Americas and elsewhere were highly racialized, this too was not without precedent (many other cultures formerly based systems of slavery upon phenotype), though I will grant that modern systems exhibit more of these race-based features.

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ORIGINAL: PrincessinLatex

***Off topic alert

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ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

America slavery was decent compared to slavery southward in places like the Caribbean and Brazil.

I'm sure you didn't mean any offense by this. . . but slavery in America was pretty fucking bad. Maybe it wasn't the *worst* case scenario. . . .but I don't think that the word "decent" and "American slavery" really belong in the same sentence. That is kinda like saying: "Sally's rape was mild compared to Peggy's because Peggy got fucked up the ass and Sally was only fucked in the puss."

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ORIGINAL: mons

greetings

tammyjo how many books have you read on the american life pf slavery ? you have said the wildest thing i have ever heard (amercian slavery was decent) one story one old man was left to sit and ate as he sit by maggots decent oh yes so cool and woman who had babies after baby until their utuers fell out they die of either infection or heart broken for the childern she had taken from her. the lighter slave had i the worst the mistress who husband had sslept with the slave woman or girl . each time the wife would look at the childer she would see her husband face in each child, sometimes the mistress could not have childern. she was so bitter she would whip either or both to death. no tammyjo it was never decent. you should read up on some really good books , i know if you have no ideal what happen read and learn, it is misconception the ligther you were you were made more comfortable no they had it worse if the master and yes he was her father did not try to bed you the mistress was spitting in the pot so you could not have a drop of food i read alot . or when you fed the dog if he did not want it they made you eat it . there is a very good book call A SLAVE GIRL LIFE i do not know who wrote it i shoulc know that at least but that is one book i will never forget




mons

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ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

We can argue morals if you want about slavery but I'm a historian and I look at the issue of historical slavery in comparison to other cultures and places. Applying modern ethics to the past only gets in our way of understanding the past.

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ORIGINAL: Caius

Why is it that in every thread I post in, I end up defending someone I first had to disagree with?

relevant. Thetammyjo was mistaken in some of the facts she orginally presented, but I see nothing in her remarks which suggests disrespect or a lack of appreciation for the fact that American slavery was beastly in nature and a blight in the country's history.

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ORIGINAL: abytchgoddess4u

But, this seems to be different, or perhaps just more ingrained. Maybe one day I'll get to the point of 'fuck it', but I'd prefer it to happen sooner, rather than later...

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Slavery as practiced in and around the era that led to the civil war bears no relations to slavery as it has existed from time immemorial.

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Had the wanton waste and destruction of humans as it was practiced in those days never happened, I think slavery would be legal and widespread today.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

This does not nullify the fact that if you were trouble, they would carve a deaths eagle on your back (split the backbone and pull your lungs out and spread them like wings) if you were big problems.  They held people in the highest honor who did not scream or moan as this was being done since you were quite alive as it happened.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well, they liked obedience, you see. Strong wishes call for strong measures.

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ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I have had a similar problem myself but it only seems to arise when the man himself makes a deal out of being treated like he's on a southern plantation or even worse because he's black and I'm white so he MUST be a slave (shudder). That's the same problem I have when someone who is Jewish tells me he wants to be treated like he's in a concentration camp or being forced to convert by the inquisition (shudder).

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ORIGINAL: Caius

Likewise, while you are correct that the systems used by European colonial powers in the Americas and elsewhere were highly racialized, this too was not without precedent (many other cultures formerly based systems of slavery upon phenotype),  though I will grant that modern systems exhibit more of these race-based features.   

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ORIGINAL: MissSCD

I think MistressPandora has helped clear the air a bit here.
It seems we are trying to explain the racial issue itself and trying to cultivate it into the lifestyle relationship.
There are two separate issues in my opinion.
To Tammy JO:
We have had disagreements in the past, and I am not quite sure what you are trying to say to us.
I grew up in the deep south with Racial hatred. It is very real.

Regards, MissSCD

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ORIGINAL: MisPandora

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ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I have had a similar problem myself but it only seems to arise when the man himself makes a deal out of being treated like he's on a southern plantation or even worse because he's black and I'm white so he MUST be a slave (shudder). That's the same problem I have when someone who is Jewish tells me he wants to be treated like he's in a concentration camp or being forced to convert by the inquisition (shudder).

I've had both requests, multiple times, and have successfully executed both scenes in a negotiated, consensual manner. They were apparently very cathartic to the requestor, and it helped me gain alot of insight as to the reason why someone would request that. There are times that we do play the role of the therapist or therapeutic practitioner.