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RE: Being known - 7/21/2007 6:56:54 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		Sorry Level, but it honestly doesn't matter to me one way or another if anybody understands me or knows of me, "fame" is of absolutely no imortance to me whatsoever...I am never going to have it and that is very much a concious decision on my part


_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

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CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Being known - 7/21/2007 7:17:47 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

marie, I think you may be further along than you know *smiles* you're doing fine, good lady.


Why, thank you, kind Gentleman. :)

_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Being known - 7/21/2007 7:39:09 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I wonder if individuals choose partners/friends etc that in all honesty will not look so deep. that don't push that scary button.


Thats good food for thought and probably very accurate in a lot of cases. In some cases however I think sometimes people just learn to work around it in their interactions.  They think they are being an 'open book', but what they are really doing is learning how to hide stuff in such a way that most people never notice. (Or at least that was the case for myself).  I think the bottom line is really having a particular level of self awareness and the ability to be honest with oneself first and foremost, without that there is no solid baseline to build upon...oh and someone coming along and putting your face in it doesn't hurt either.

quote:

I felt the best way to deal with the fears.. is focus on the learning of the character of the person that you desire or are considering opening up too.   Learn and validate their character alittle and share alittle.  Taking one step at a time.


Very sound advice and well received. :) 

quote:

Marie with all sincerity... I would encourage you to take the steps.. maybe just because.. my instincts and the little I know of you tell me that you worth knowing.


Thank you (again).  ;)

_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Being known - 7/21/2007 10:31:43 PM   
SDFemDom4cuck


Posts: 2809
Joined: 5/23/2005
From: P'burgh PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

A quote from Anne Rice, in a post by CM's lovely Miss Jo, sparked the idea for this thread.

"Each of us has within him a dark chamber where real desires flower; and the horror of it is that they never see the light of another's understanding, those strange blooms. It is as lonely as it is dark, that chamber of the heart."

How important is being known, and understood, to you? I mean, being able to bare yourself to another, and have them "get it", and still not turn away, and to still care for you, whether it be a friend or lover.
 
Edited to add: I'm not just speaking about D/s, either.


Level,

The first time I read that quote it was like being hit by a clue by four. Obviously it was the 80's and there was so much of me hidden in that dark chamber. I was a very popular girl in HS and yet no one "knew" Me. Reading that took my breath away. The thought of being known, of all these dark things I enjoyed being known, was wonderful and terrifying at the same time. Having them known and accepted was incomprehensible. Sometimes it still is. Even here within this community.

Do I still want that? Yes, more than most would imagine. To be loved, to be accepted, to be known and understood wholly. I think each one of us does. To allow another to not only see those strange beautiful flowers blossom but to allow another to tend them and encourage them to grow. To turn the lights on within that dark little chamber.

Does that mean another has to agree with Me all the time? Of course not. Does it mean that I expect perfection? Absolutely not. I'm perfectly imperfect myself. Finding someone that can accept and perhaps even cherish all those quirky little imperfections would be lovely. That works both ways.

So yes, it's important to me that the other person "gets" me. That I get them. That they accept and understand me simply for who I am as a whole. Not their ideal of Me, but who I really am. Just as I will them. Not just the kink, but all of it combined. It won't happen immediately. I think we spend a lifetime getting to know the ones we allow into our lives. We continually evolve and grow and continue to learn about ourselves and one another. That's the beauty of it all isn't it?

This was an amazing thread Level. Thank you for making me think.

_____________________________

Ms Jo

She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Being known - 7/21/2007 11:12:19 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

How important is being known, and understood, to you? I mean, being able to bare yourself to another, and have them "get it", and still not turn away, and to still care for you, whether it be a friend or lover.



The importance depends on the level of my relationship. The higher the priority someone has in my life, the more important it becomes to me. With Himself, I need to be as transparent to him as I possibly can be because we do a lot of very dangerous things together. He needs to know my mind, how I'll react to any given stimuli, how I'll feel when events take place etc. It's equally important that he share with me so that I can serve him as he requires. He requires pretty intense service as well as anticipation so my knowledge of him needs to be fairly extensive. He gives me the tools to acquire that knowledge as well by being forth coming with answers to questions I may have and sharing things with me that I may not have thought to ask.

With my mail man.. he just needs to know my address.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Being known - 7/22/2007 1:52:54 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
With my mail man.. he just needs to know my address.

Celeste


LOL made me laugh out loud. 

I try to exercise discretion in what I share with others.  I have shared too much in the past which proved to be unfortunate.

With my Master, however, there are no barriers.  He knows all of me, and continues to know all of me, even the stuff he might not like so much.  He has surprised me with just how much he gets me.   And he has outright shocked me by not even blinking when telling him thoughts I could hardly admit to myself.   He's the first person in my life I've truly been myself to, and because he knows me so well - my personality, my joys, fears, frustrations, the way I handle issues, the way I react to others, etc. - he can pretty much predict me with his eyes closed.  And knowing this about him is in large part why I am able to trust him as I do.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Being known - 7/22/2007 3:17:53 AM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		this is kind of on topic, and kind of not on topic, but i decided to share it anyhow.......i read this and it makes me feel ok with who i am.......and i agree with some of the previous posters....i dont get me most days, i surely dont expect someone else to do it.....acceptance is nice though...

"Persons of high self-esteem are not driven to make themselves superior to others; they do not seek to prove their value by measuring themselves against a comparative standard. Their joy is being who they are, not in being better than someone else."
-- Nathaniel Branden

 

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Being known - 7/22/2007 3:46:46 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

A quote from Anne Rice, in a post by CM's lovely Miss Jo, sparked the idea for this thread.

"Each of us has within him a dark chamber where real desires flower; and the horror of it is that they never see the light of another's understanding, those strange blooms. It is as lonely as it is dark, that chamber of the heart."

How important is being known, and understood, to you? I mean, being able to bare yourself to another, and have them "get it", and still not turn away, and to still care for you, whether it be a friend or lover.
 
Edited to add: I'm not just speaking about D/s, either.


Level,

The first time I read that quote it was like being hit by a clue by four. Obviously it was the 80's and there was so much of me hidden in that dark chamber. I was a very popular girl in HS and yet no one "knew" Me. Reading that took my breath away. The thought of being known, of all these dark things I enjoyed being known, was wonderful and terrifying at the same time. Having them known and accepted was incomprehensible. Sometimes it still is. Even here within this community.

Do I still want that? Yes, more than most would imagine. To be loved, to be accepted, to be known and understood wholly. I think each one of us does. To allow another to not only see those strange beautiful flowers blossom but to allow another to tend them and encourage them to grow. To turn the lights on within that dark little chamber.

Does that mean another has to agree with Me all the time? Of course not. Does it mean that I expect perfection? Absolutely not. I'm perfectly imperfect myself. Finding someone that can accept and perhaps even cherish all those quirky little imperfections would be lovely. That works both ways.

So yes, it's important to me that the other person "gets" me. That I get them. That they accept and understand me simply for who I am as a whole. Not their ideal of Me, but who I really am. Just as I will them. Not just the kink, but all of it combined. It won't happen immediately. I think we spend a lifetime getting to know the ones we allow into our lives. We continually evolve and grow and continue to learn about ourselves and one another. That's the beauty of it all isn't it?

This was an amazing thread Level. Thank you for making me think.


You're welcome, Jo, thanks for the inspiration behind it.  Wonderful post.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to SDFemDom4cuck)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Being known - 7/22/2007 3:47:53 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

How important is being known, and understood, to you? I mean, being able to bare yourself to another, and have them "get it", and still not turn away, and to still care for you, whether it be a friend or lover.



The importance depends on the level of my relationship. The higher the priority someone has in my life, the more important it becomes to me. With Himself, I need to be as transparent to him as I possibly can be because we do a lot of very dangerous things together. He needs to know my mind, how I'll react to any given stimuli, how I'll feel when events take place etc. It's equally important that he share with me so that I can serve him as he requires. He requires pretty intense service as well as anticipation so my knowledge of him needs to be fairly extensive. He gives me the tools to acquire that knowledge as well by being forth coming with answers to questions I may have and sharing things with me that I may not have thought to ask.

Well said, Celeste.

With my mail man.. he just needs to know my address.

 

Celeste


_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Being known - 7/22/2007 3:49:28 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

this is kind of on topic, and kind of not on topic, but i decided to share it anyhow.......i read this and it makes me feel ok with who i am.......and i agree with some of the previous posters....i dont get me most days, i surely dont expect someone else to do it.....acceptance is nice though...

"Persons of high self-esteem are not driven to make themselves superior to others; they do not seek to prove their value by measuring themselves against a comparative standard. Their joy is being who they are, not in being better than someone else."
-- Nathaniel Branden 


That's very much on topic, and I appreciate you posting it, SOO. To be one's self, is one of the most sought states of being.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Being known - 7/22/2007 3:54:31 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Okay, random thoughts here......
 
Popeye and Arpig were really the only two that answered "no" to the OP. Both are very blunt, take it or leave it, and don't seem to give much of a damn one way or the other how they're taken  -- and both of you, I don't intend that as a slam, or negative.
 
Both are already, and may have always been, themselves, as close to 100% as you can get, if my guess is right. So, they have experienced a high level of "being known", and I assume those in their lives accept them for it, while many of the rest of us still have a lot of those "dark hidden chambers", and have yet to open up to them, or have others see them.
 
Just rambling  here......

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Being known - 7/22/2007 6:41:43 AM   
spankmepink11


Posts: 1310
Joined: 9/28/2005
Status: offline 		For me, it's not so much the need to be "known" and while i do enjoy it when people "get me" to a degree, it's much more important to be accepted for me.  Like someone else mentioned...i don't always "get" myself.  Over the years it has become less important for me to know "why" i am what i am, and more important for me to just BE me, and enjoy it.
To know that i can divulge the darkness to a friend, or partner and not be judged, is probably the most wonderful part of my interactions with them.    (from an emotional standpoint)

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Being known - 7/22/2007 7:26:44 AM   
MusicalBoredom


Posts: 620
Joined: 5/8/2007
From: Louisiana/New York
Status: offline 		I have never needed or even wanted to be known, much less understood, by everyone.  I do like to be myself in most situations.  The people that I spend more and a few minutes a day with are those that I have some rapport with -- the ones that know where I stand on issues, who I am in the world and what makes me tick.  I have met few people that I feel are just like me in most respects but that's the beuty of being human.  We don't need to be like each other or even share the same points of view.

I think most of us conform to expectations to some degree or another but I think that's about respect and understanding for the community around us.  I don't hop in my car after playing bike polo being all sweaty and muddy and walk into one of the better resurants demanding to be seated.  I understand that a shower and change of clothes is best and don't demand that others take me the way I am and get over it.  I don't walk up to complete strangers and expose all the ends and outs of who I am.  I think the bottom line is I try my best to treat people with respect and choose to spend my time with people that do the same in turn.

(in reply to spankmepink11)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Being known - 7/22/2007 8:58:51 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		There was no way I was "known" or wanted to be "known" early in life. There is protection in being unknown. It can be to protect others, the masks worn by Doctors to keep a sterile field. Or the "mask" can have a purpose similar to the reason a thief wears one. Either way, the "protection" serves the same purpose; to hide a face that you fear to show regardless if the reason is sinister or altruistic. It's also a cheat.

Being unknown, or keeping even one small part of you hidden, means you've never loved. Never trusting someone enough to be completely "naked" makes it impossible to love. Whatever is held back prevents the ability to love no matter how irrelevant it may seem.

Life supports the belief that it is a good idea to keep a part unknown. Most people confirm cynicism. When it comes right down to it, most people don't disappoint you, they live up to your negative expectations and justify keeping a part of you hidden. The part held back keeps you from being hurt, keeps you able to say; "I knew it!" Allows you to be angry, as opposed to devastated, when the relationship fails. Anger at yourself or anger at another, it doesn't matter. It builds a callous, creating a calloused individual. It's a lot easier to "get over" being angry than it is getting over being devastated. Another good reason to keep a good chunk of you unknown.

You can rationalize "happiness" and "contentment" being alone and hidden. I know I was extremely happy alone and hidden, at least it is what I believed. I never trusted and for good reason - nobody proved that trust was warranted. At the point when a casual relationship moved onto something more, they all lived up to my expectations. I didn't even need to "test" or challenge. Time and familiarity provided the "test", actions or lack of actions contradictory to their own words moved the 'theory' to 'dogma'.

It was easy, fun, and adventurous.  Holding to the dogma of distrust prevented more callouses, and proved time for embellishing a mask or collecting new ones. The thespian, the gambler, the singer/pianist, the businessman, the motorcyclist, the traveler, the entrepreneur, the golfer, the whatever; all part of the whole person, but never showing the whole. What is the true color of a chameleon?

I really believe that I would have enjoyed going to my grave never being "known", and never being "naked". However now I can't put myself back into that mindset. It would be as if I was trying to remember what it was like being a virgin. Why the conversion? I met someone who being "naked" was a natural state. No expectation, no pretense, no 'agenda'. All the traits I had, and was, in diametric opposition. It was ironic that, at first, I believed that having no agenda was her agenda; because of course, my 'dogma' could not be wrong. Then, I put in the 'test' of time; believing eventually she would get tired and put on some clothes. But enough time passes and it wears on you, she was the pumice stone on my callouses. Eventually, without my intention, they were gone. I was known to her. I had her trust and had no choice but to trust. I could never find contradiction in her words, or betrayal in her actions. she didn't care if I had anything hidden, never demanded disclosure or insisted upon the 'real' story. she was naked and enjoyed anyone else regardless of what they wore. her 'weapon' was having no weapon, no agenda, no 'clothes'. she looked so happy, it would have been stupid not to try to emulate her. So I did, whatever she didn't already 'know' I disclosed even searching to be sure no part remained hidden.

I can't tell you how much I hate her for that!

Never having the experience, I would have argued long and hard on the side of being unknown. It makes more sense, its the ultimate in self accountability. Having been a convert to emotional and mental 'nakedness' I am now an advocate at the level of an ex 'two pack a day' smoker. You risk finding out why; "it is better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all." You risk defining loneliness by seconds. You'll experience honest fear for the first time at the thought of some outside influence, beyond your control, destroying you. If you are like me, you'll have something in your life 'out of your control' for the first time.

"Being known" - I don't recommend it, but having made the transition I would never want to ever return to what I was before being known by beth. So, she knows me. What do I 'know'? I know love. I know joy. I know happiness. I know faith. I know trust. I know contentment. My prior knowledge and definition of those things were superficial, rationalized versions of terms with no personal meaning and debating the issue would make compelling arguments against any other meaning. Just like now, I know there is a 'one'; while agreeing with all the 'logical' reasons why there isn't.

I'm "out of the closet" known.

(in reply to MusicalBoredom)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Being known - 7/22/2007 9:09:58 AM   
MusicalBoredom


Posts: 620
Joined: 5/8/2007
From: Louisiana/New York
Status: offline 		I agree completely.  I've been "out of the closet" as long as I have had those interest to one degree or another.  Mostly growing in the amount of "out" over time.  I mean I have Tinker Bell bent over and collared on my arm in a very visible way  (funny but true).  That has never meant to me that I busted up in the local First Baptist Church on Sunday morning in full leather though.  Although thinking about that at the moment makes me chuckle in that sadistic sort of way.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Being known - 7/22/2007 9:17:59 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

How important is being known, and understood, to you? I mean, being able to bare yourself to another, and have them "get it", and still not turn away, and to still care for you, whether it be a friend or lover.
 
Edited to add: I'm not just speaking about D/s, either.


Haven't read the two pages prior.  Being known and understood to another person.  It doesn't mean much to me.
Those who care will take the time to get to know me.  To my significant other, we've been togehter almost 9 year's now and he still doesn't know all of me.
For the last 30 year's I have always told friends.  When I die, people will get to know me at my funeral.  They will talk...all about different facets of my life that they shared with me.  People will get to know me then.  Until then...no need for a single person to know me.
My dom aka significant other knows me the best.  Yet, as I stated he does not know everything about me. 
I've never had an issue with people admiring me in my life.  Once people get to know me they must like what they see.  It's those who don't who seem to dislike me.

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Being known - 7/22/2007 9:27:05 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Fantastic post, Merc. That's what I want.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to MusicalBoredom)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Being known - 7/22/2007 9:49:38 AM   
Puermihi


Posts: 4
Joined: 6/30/2007
Status: offline 		"How important is being known, and understood, to you? I mean, being able to bare yourself to another, and have them "get it", and still not turn away, and to still care for you, whether it be a friend or lover."
 
I would be thrilled to be "known" for who I am, and would not care so much if I were liked or disliked, just respected. I have lost six jobs in the past three years. Had My university education disrupted twice [finished what I started now, thank the Lord] and all because I showed who I was in work as a worker [nothing to do with being a Dominant Personality]. Taken to court five times to defend what I said and did and still people do not want to know. So, lifestyle aside I, as the whistle blower that I am, would give My soul not to have to constantly battle with moral and ethical issues moment to moment; would love just once to work with people who would rather not play at being an Ostrich. I must just add, that if I had to do it all again, I would in a heart beat however, but this does not make it pleasant.
Wonderful question.
Thank you for the rant space.
Miss P

(in reply to LadyIce)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Being known - 7/22/2007 12:10:59 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		 
I am a private person.  I never really wanted fame and fortune, although I do enjoy the practice of acting. 

It took years to graciously accept a thank you from students.

Which, I suppose, is why I have been on TV twice, and may be in a movie in 6 months.  (My second job involves
doing something which is potentially very damaging to the untrained, so they want the "professional" to do the work.)  Gaah.  I think it is a speaking role.

Kill me now.

Sinergy

p.s.  Got SAG credits dancing in a music video. 

p.p.s.  Need to borrow my swiss army knife to kill me now?


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Being known - 7/22/2007 1:05:06 PM   
sublimelysensual


Posts: 298
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline 		Excellent post, Merc.
 
I very much agree that not being fully known is a form of protection, playing your cards close to the vest, as it were. Having said that, the people I find myself most attracted to (and most scared of) are ones who don't let me get away with it, that keep pushing that same button until I finally let go of whatever I was keeping in. I don't think it's an easy thing to find, I've experienced it once thus far on a long term basis; but that experience showed me it is possible for someone to get me, and accept me in spite of whatever dustbunnies may be hiding under the bed. I also think it's something that is a journey, it could take years to get to that level of shared personal knowledge, but I would say the destination is worth the time spent travelling. Just my two cents, as always...
 
-a

_____________________________

"To make oneself an object, to make oneself passive, is a very different thing from being a passive object." -Simone De Beauvoir -'The Second Sex'

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 60
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