RE: submission agift or a need?

RE: submission agift or a need? (Full Version)

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AquaticSub -> RE: submission agift or a need? (7/23/2007 9:38:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy quote: AquaSub Domiguy, it is a need for me and a gift to him. Since Valy didn't engage in the conversation at any point we really would have to take your qord on how he feels about all of this....Anywhoooo.....Like you finally stated said after countless tiresome posts.....IT IS A NEED FOR YOU!!! You are becoming a tad bit tiresome in defending a position that you constantly through your own words contradict....Please don't carry on any further...It doesn't become you. I don't see any contradiction. I don't need it the way Prop needs it. I certainly won't die if I can't serve, the way I would if I couldn't have water. I need it the way I need my education. It's very important but I'll manage without it if I can't have it. Desire probably would be a better word since if we want to get techinical a need is something you can't live without. So I amend my statement slightly: To serve is a desire to me and my serving is a gift to him. You don't agree. So what? You don't have to agree. But you simply aren't going to change our minds. Let's be adults and agree that adults can have differences of opinion.

domiguy -> RE: submission agift or a need? (7/23/2007 9:44:18 AM)
I already have changed your mind....If I keep going I might be able to get you to gift me a blow job....We will let it end here....With the fact that I am right.....lol.

Valyraen -> RE: submission agift or a need? (7/23/2007 9:49:13 AM)
Dear God, I love internet drama. Nothing like a quick circuit of the boards when I need a chuckle, since it seems like someone's always getting their panties in a twist nattering over some pointless triviality. Seems like, as with most of the things about this lifestyle, the underlying motives behind submission are subjective, since we've all seen how well broad, sweeping generalizations have fared here. If these motives are subjective, what purpose does beating yet another horse to death about it do? Aside from provide entertainment to the bored, no purpose here that I can see. The hardliners in both camps are squaring off, people are interjecting the occasional comment on the side, and the rest of us (myself included) are just waiting for the next argumentative post. Has any of this accomplished anything? Probably not... might have helped some solidify their own personal motivations behind submission, but there's no way of knowing. So, enough. Why do any of us give a flying fuck about the way that other people conduct their private affairs? Moreover, why do we feel the need to force other people to accept our definitions - that are, once again, purely subjective? Domi, if you feel the need to be right to validate something about yourself to you... more power to you, I suppose. Personally, I think it's kind of sad that you've devoted so much energy to something that, in the long run, is so meaningless. Now, if you'll excuse me, Aqua and I are going to go take a walk and have a perfectly pleasant rest of the day, and I wish the same to all of you. Valyraen

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: submission agift or a need? (7/23/2007 9:59:00 AM)
wow this thread like went south and beyond.... dead horse is right give it shock treatment or something. but you got to admit its better then a soap.. days of our subs.. a never ending battle of wit. wisdom and other stupid things lol

domiguy -> RE: submission agift or a need? (7/23/2007 10:16:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Valyraen Domi, if you feel the need to be right to validate something about yourself to you... more power to you, I suppose. Personally, I think it's kind of sad that you've devoted so much energy to something that, in the long run, is so meaningless. Valyraen Valyrean, there is a sub in question who pursued the same path...when consistently shown the errors in her thinking she plodded along undeterred...Since she is somewhat in your charge she might want to consider asking you in the future whether her posts have merit in lieu of a number of senseless posts that finally end with this statement.... quote: Aqua So I amend my statement slightly: To serve is a desire to me I enjoy a good debate every now and again....Not that this was particularly satisfying....I had the time, albeit it was rather meaningless, but in the end logic and understanding prevailed. It is one thing to argue a point it is quite another to hold on and defend a belief that has been proven false by one's own words.....If this is typical to the type of conversations or arguments that you have with Aqua....Your patience is astounding. I would consider it sad as to how much time you must devote to these types of situations.

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: submission agift or a need? (7/23/2007 10:24:53 AM)
it is truely amazing how many people think they have a PhD in analyzing someones point of view.. lol Where else can you find a slew of mental health professionals... then on a bdsm message board never met so many panel of experts. i guess the point here is just take everything with a grain of salt and laugh about it and move on.

Valyraen -> RE: submission agift or a need? (7/23/2007 10:32:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64 it is truely amazing how many people think they have a PhD in analyzing someones point of view.. lol Where else can you find a slew of mental health professionals... then on a bdsm message board never met so many panel of experts. i guess the point here is just take everything with a grain of salt and laugh about it and move on. small bow Domo. (just because I'm a Kill Bill fan and so rarely have the opportunity to use that bit in conversation)

StellaByStarlite -> RE: submission agift or a need? (7/23/2007 10:35:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub quote: ORIGINAL: GhitaAmati Question.... I personally feel a "need" to submit...it is who I am inside..it is me. I see my submission as a gift, but one I only give to one person. Does it matter how I state it on my profile? Please dont see me as being dumb here...I admit I may be sometimes, but Im honestly curious this time, is there a difference in the semantics that much? ghita~ People are going to tell you that you are being dumb. I agree with you though. I see a lot of the world as a gift. Every day with Valyraen is a gift. His ownership is a gift that enhances my life. Every day with my friends and family is a gift. I guess, in my case, submission is more a preference then anything else. =) My husband and I don't "need" the dynamic as much as we prefer it because we're happier that way. Our marriage... encompassing the commitment, the mutual goals, everything, is truely a gift. We try not to take it for granted, but life gets in the way sometimes. ;)

Missokyst -> RE: submission agift or a need? (7/23/2007 11:02:51 AM)
I agree. I need to eat. I need to breathe. But submission for me is just the natural progression of being in a relationship. I don't need it to live. But when I have it, I thrive. Kyst quote: ORIGINAL: StellaByStarlite I guess, in my case, submission is more a preference then anything else. =) My husband and I don't "need" the dynamic as much as we prefer it because we're happier that way. Our marriage... encompassing the commitment, the mutual goals, everything, is truely a gift. We try not to take it for granted, but life gets in the way sometimes. ;)

Azurenee -> RE: submission agift or a need? (7/23/2007 11:18:43 AM)
I have lived for the last thirty years without One to whom I may submit. I'm still breathing, so if you want to split hairs I do not need to submit. However, I wrote in my profile: I'm seeking a way to enhance my life, so that I may experience it fully. I have a full life, but not nearly as dimensional unless I am living out my need. I can choose to call it need. I personally identify strongly with defining it as need, especially because it is something I feel compelled to do, by desire or otherwise.

domiguy -> RE: submission agift or a need? (7/23/2007 11:20:41 AM)
It is better stated as being a "desire."

Azurenee -> RE: submission agift or a need? (7/23/2007 11:27:11 AM)
Better is often the enemy of Best.

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: submission agift or a need? (7/23/2007 11:38:35 AM)
though we weave a web of deceit among the words of which one speaks. for one has always found that we are like onions with layers to be pealed..

domiguy -> RE: submission agift or a need? (7/23/2007 11:46:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Azurenee Better is often the enemy of Best. True...that in many situations someone might claim thay have something that is the best that soon someone will try and better.

bliss1 -> RE: submission agift or a need? (7/23/2007 11:47:03 AM)
As a strong woman outside of my primary relationship for me to give any control is a step of trust - deep trust. I enjoy being submissive with a Dom/Master. It is the greatest gift I can offer him (if you want to gift wrap me - find a gift bag, i'll fit better in that and I will im you the addy to mail me to). Since it is not something I will give to any male coming down the road - it is a gift - and no I don't take it back until the relationship has run it's course and we agree that that is the way it will be.

CreativeDominant -> RE: submission agift or a need? (7/23/2007 11:54:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1 "gift of submission" -excuse me while I go puke...a gift is given,not taken back...how many 'submissives' still give their submission to the very first "Master" they had? please, take these 'gift wrapped' subs and amuse them, as for me, I will give up control to ONE who deserves my respect and has earned my trust... Nicely...and graphically... stated. [:)] Out of the 3 long-term submissives I have had, 2 of them refused to see their submission to me as anything other than a gift. It was one of those areas where we agreed to disagree. Ironically enough, those 2 no longer feel that they have to submit to my authority or suggestions and the one who does so, not out of obligation but respect NEVER viewed her submission as a gift...as you might guess, she is the one who is now a femdominant.

domiguy -> RE: submission agift or a need? (7/23/2007 12:05:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bliss1 As a strong woman outside of my primary relationship for me to give any control is a step of trust - deep trust. I enjoy being submissive with a Dom/Master. It is the greatest gift I can offer him (if you want to gift wrap me - find a gift bag, i'll fit better in that and I will im you the addy to mail me to). Since it is not something I will give to any male coming down the road - it is a gift - and no I don't take it back until the relationship has run it's course and we agree that that is the way it will be. You didn't come to CM because you had a gift...You came out her to sate a need, want or desire. The word "gift" just falls short in defining the way you actually feel about your submission.....The underlying cause of you being able to "give" of yourself is because you initially had the need, want or desire to do so. Women love to make shit sound all frilly and sweet. Also who determines the worth of a gift?...The givee or the giver?

ELUSIVE1 -> RE: submission agift or a need? (7/23/2007 12:21:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy The idea of the "gift" is founded within bullshit. When you are out of a relationship do you say to yourself, "boy I sure would like to gift to someone my submission tonight." I don't think so. What you search for is someone who can fill the need that you have. This is no different than anything else. Due to the fact that you have vaginas twix your legs you tend to romanticize a lot of shit, this included. So you wrap your submission up into a nice shiny box covered with yodas and shitting unicorns...and wait for your Prince. In the meantime you masturbate like hell to compensate for your needs and fantasies not being met. It's a need...Or maybe better phrased as a desire. Thankyou! I couldn't have said it better myself...and this 'gift' these submissives want to give?? what makes it any better or any more special than anyone else's? what exactly is in that "gift" that he can't get from any other horny sub???if there is a "golden box" in that box I wanna see!!!!

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: submission agift or a need? (7/23/2007 12:43:31 PM)
who said it had to be a need.. needs change all the time.. sense we can really get complex here which would be boring and mostly go out one ear and into the other..... lets just say for simple fact people are here to express who they are as a person.. sub, dom ,domme, it what ever you may be. Givers are all kinds and levels does not make them a sub dom and domme. They can be givers too. I think the fair term would be to belong to or apart of is better then saying we have a need.. Some people have no needs sit back drink scotch watch stock reports....

Aneirin -> RE: submission agift or a need? (7/23/2007 5:08:14 PM)
My oppinion,submission is a need not a gift as a gift given should not be taken back.The use of the term 'Gift',I feel is over used within kink and if the words be analysed it does not fit. No doubt others have their own oppinion,which is great,as I like to live in a varied world. Aneirin

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